I think I'm right

[OFT II]

Being young and dumb is better than being old and dumb. At least you got out before you got in over your head. I will bet that you don't do that again.

 

[thebeamanater107]

Being young and dumb is better than being old and dumb. At least you got out before you got in over your head. I will bet that you don't do that again.

And at least I type my stories in here with the intent on learning and improving myself. Others don't. Just imagine if I continued thinking I was right and went out and did this again!

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson

 

[Comrad]

Sorry to jump back in and pile on but this statement raises a few concerns.

"originally thought I was right to not loan my gun"

Thought you were right, there should have been absolutely no question about NOT loaning your gun. I mean really, in a bar with a drunk you don't really know who told you he has had problems with the law!
Sorry to offend but how did you get a CC permit with thinking like this?

 

[Mr Pokeyman]

And at least I type my stories in here with the intent on learning and improving myself. Others don't. Just imagine if I continued thinking I was right and went out and did this again!

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson

I think you got it pretty good and you "get it".

 

[thebeamanater107]

Sorry to jump back in and pile on but this statement raises a few concerns.

"originally thought I was right to not loan my gun"

Thought you were right, there should have been absolutely no question about NOT loaning your gun. I mean really, in a bar with a drunk you don't really know who told you he has had problems with the law!
Sorry to offend but how did you get a CC permit with thinking like this?

I either typed that wrong or you read it wrong. I'm correct in not loaning my gun. I'm correct in not pulling my gun. I originally thought I handled the situation well, but now I know I make a variety of bad moves before I denied a drunk man my gun.

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson

 

[Smoke]

Anyone who carries a gun and takes it into a bar is a fool.

Haven't had a drink in close to 32 years. Sat in the bar at Texas Roadhouse 2 weeks ago eating a cheeseburger with my wife. Aside from the fact that I didn't order a steak, how does that make me a fool?

 

[Roadranger]

For the sake of clarification, in Louisiana, the cut off limit on blood alcohol is .05 , not .04. Once a permitee reaches .05, their carry permit is considered invalid and therefore they can't carry. I always teach(preach) if you carry, don't drink. If one knows they are going drinking, leave your gun at home and take a cab to avoid a DWI arrest as well. Bob!

 

[thebeamanater107]

Haven't had a drink in close to 32 years. Sat in the bar at Texas Roadhouse 2 weeks ago eating a cheeseburger with my wife. Aside from the fact that I didn't order a steak, how does that make me a fool?

I wondered about that too, but I'm not engaging this man on that topic. I was shooting pool And eating wings and fries, hanging out at a "bar and grill." I wasn't drinking, other people were, and none in my group of girls was drunk since they all had to work the next day. We met up and hung out for 2 hours, and I met jay and Mike. One of the girls in my group was dating Mike but she dumped him last night because of other things that happened after I left him and Jay at the bar. Those events have made Jay and Mike not in the group of friends anymore.

Sure, I didn't need a gun. The vast majority of us will never need a gun. But there may be one day where I might need a gun, and that's why I carry. Also if some people carry, the gangsters leave. One time I needed a gun due to a snake in the woods. I had one. Not because I felt unsafe in the woods, but because I always have one.

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson

 

[Protected One]

Haven't had a drink in close to 32 years. Sat in the bar at Texas Roadhouse 2 weeks ago eating a cheeseburger with my wife. Aside from the fact that I didn't order a steak, how does that make me a fool?

Is the Texas Roadhouse a "bar" in Colorado? Here, it's a restaraunt...that happens to have a bar. What difference does it make? It's legal (here anyways) to carry in a restaraunt, even if it has a bar; wheras it's NOT legal here to carry in a "bar" ( or any establishment that makes more than 50% of its revenue from the sale of alchohol).
I wouldn't say it makes you a fool...just someone who's willing to risk losing their ccw priviledge.

 

[TJ1225]

The Laws of Stupid

Don't go to stupid places with stupid people that do stupid things.

I don't know who came up with this originally but I use it in my classes. Makes sense to me! We have all been in situations that ended up being dicey and thankfully emerged unscathed? Sounds like what you have described, glad it worked out, lesson learned.

 

[Smoke]

Is the Texas Roadhouse a "bar" in Colorado? Here, it's a restaraunt...that happens to have a bar.

I was sitting in the bar part of the resaraunt.

I wouldn't say it makes you a fool...just someone who's willing to risk losing their ccw priviledge.

In Colorado I am completely legal if I carry in a bar (of any type) as long as I don't drink.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

So I was with my girlfriend at the bar. I met her friend, Jay. Jay was in the army from 1993-98. We have things in common, as I was in the army from 2008-12. In a random conversation, I mentioned I conceal and carry, which Jay replied he can't because he got in trouble with the law here and there. I understand, as I've also been in trouble, but never once have I been convicted guilty nor have I pled guilty, so my record is clean. He asked about people seeing my gun and I ran him through general behavior. When you see a man you see blue jeans, red shirt, white guy, red beard, and that's it. When you look at him you see from the chest up. Nobody ever sees the slightly odd point in my shirt where I appendix carry a full size ruger sr9. Nobody seems to notice.

The bar closes and we move to another bar. This one has a few guys and a rather attractive girl. Our group was 4 total, but Jay is the only important character in my story. Jay strikes me as a disabled veteran age 39 who is now an alcoholic living on a va check each month. In general he's a cool guy. I'm a 25 year old veteran who is in no way disabled. And all I know about the girl at bar #2 is she's rather attractive from the front and back, wearing tight fitting clothing, and I enjoyed viewing her.

Jay, who has by now had several drinks, approached me and asked if he could "borrow my piece." His words, not mine. He made some sort of explanation that I ignored about the girl and some guy that sounded to me like a bar fight was brewing. If I'm alive, the answer is no. I tuned back in and gathered Jay wanted to "make a statement." I let Jay know that pulling a gun is a death threat, and no matter what the outcome is the cops will be here soon if you pull a gun. I figure Jay has 3 options. Put $30 on the bar and leave now, avoid the group and don't look at the girl or the boyfriend all night, or get into the group and end up in a bar fight.

Jay then asked if I could "make a statement" with my gun. I told him no, since using a gun to bully people is still a death threat which still leads to cops when there's a variety of other options and its not my fight. I told Jay if he goes over there with my gun, He gets arrested and my gun is gone. If I make the statement I get arrested and my gun is gone. Either option can be avoided by standing over here or leaving.

Jay then attempted to tell me the whole story saying it's the girl talking smack and such And pushing people around... I asked him is pulling a gun the answer to someone thinking they're cool? He didn't think so. Off topic, thank God for background checks. At this point I'm glad Jay can't conceal and carry.

About 10 minutes later I found my excuse to leave and I was gone.

Going back over the situation, I know I'm right in not loaning out my gun. And I know I'm right in not bullying someone with my gun. I'm pretty sure I'm right in leaving and removing the gun on my belt from whatever situation was about to happen. And I really don't care what this rather attractive girl was saying, since I don't even know her name nor was I interested in learning it. Was I wrong to discuss concealing and carrying and letting someone know I carry? To me discussing guns is like discussing the weather. They're items legally purchased. Its a sport played by a bunch of people. Its an interest of many. But personal defense is like personal hygiene. Everyone does it, and some people's routine stinks, but nobody talks about it. Its personal, not public. Not really secret, but not a general topic of conversation.

I see both sides of the argument here. I just don't know which side I agree with more.


New update since I read all of your replies. Last time I typed up a story you guys pointed out a variety of ways I was in the wrong, and I worked on those points to correct them. Now you guys are bringing up valid points where I was wrong in this one too, So I'll work on those, too. I believe I agree with everyone here. Like I shouldn't have been closing the bar and moving to the next one. I should have been a better judge of character when befriending Jay. Discussing guns and discussing conceal and carry are not 2 sides of an argument, It's 2 different topics. This is why I post my stories here, because I know something happened and it was avoidable before I avoided it, and you guys have pointed out a variety of ways it could have been avoided 2 hours ago. And for the record, I don't drive drunk, So I don't carry drunk either. I didn't drink with the gun. While scolding happens, I want you guys to know I'm the one telling you the story with the purpose of improving myself, and trying not to be dumb or a thug.

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson

I think you managed a bad situation pretty well. Sure there are things that you could have done in advance that would have helped. I as a rule, the statement is "I carry" not "I am carrying" and I usually say that I'm not at the moment (it's even the truth sometimes). I, as a rule don't carry when I'm drinking, so I rarely am carrying when I'm at the bar, but you've established that you weren't drinking.

 

[thebeamanater107]

I don't know who came up with this originally but I use it in my classes. Makes sense to me! We have all been in situations that ended up being dicey and thankfully emerged unscathed? Sounds like what you have described, glad it worked out, lesson learned.

A variety of lessons now.

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson

 

[Smoke]

I'm just going to throw this out, had you never told the guy you were carrying or even that you did carry (why in the Hell do you drop that on some random stranger you just met?) you never would have had the issues you had later.

Second thing (JMO) if that amount of drama is common to your circle, you need a different circle.

 

[venomballistics]

Ya sound like a fairly young one, somewhere between figuring it out and knowing where it's at.
Your half way doomed to find yourself in a bar in the not so distant future. At that age the bar is something of a vortex that sucked up a large portion of your social contacts.

Now, you say that you could have cared less about what was going on with the piece of fluff and her group of players ....
Really?
If trouble is going to start, that's a perfect setup for it. Thus it makes sense to keep an eye on it before the fission starts.
You missed some critical activity there, and probably a whole lot more.
Like that dude at the other end of the bar eyeballin the piece of fluff like he still had the Mojo he vaguely remembered back in the 70's or 80's. Go ahead ... next time your roped into the joint, scan the crowd and find this guy.Shouldn't be too hard, they really stand out after ya notice them.
Long ago, he found ways to tolerate the antics, convince himself he was happy, and never figured out that it never did him any favors.
Thats why he's still there, thinking he's got a shot with that chick that could have been his daughter. His old crew moved on along without him.

Your his replacement.

You found ways to tolerate it like he did.

 

[cmort666]

You know those guys who just like people and get along with everyone?

I'm not one of them.

I have no interest in people like your acquaintance. They neither amuse nor entertain me. Working VERY hard to avoid people like them has served me well over the years. I've never been arrested, and that's one reason why.

I like INTELLIGENT people with interesting things to say, not screwed up people who act out when they drink. That's one reason why I generally avoid bars.

I have relatively few friends, and NONE like that guy. It helps me avoid being a prohibited person... or worse.

Your choices are your own, but they almost always have consequences.

 

[thebeamanater107]

You know those guys who just like people and get along with everyone?

I'm not one of them.

I have no interest in people like your acquaintance. They neither amuse nor entertain me. Working VERY hard to avoid people like them has served me well over the years. I've never been arrested, and that's one reason why.

I like INTELLIGENT people with interesting things to say, not screwed up people who act out when they drink. That's one reason why I generally avoid bars.

I have relatively few friends, and NONE like that guy. It helps me avoid being a prohibited person... or worse.

Your choices are your own, but they almost always have consequences.

I have many acquaintance but few friends, and I can get along and hold a conversation with just about anyone. My problem the other night was I didn't keep my conceal and carry gun a secret, and I'll fix that. My other problem was closing down the bar and moving to the new one. I'll fix that, too. I can agree with you.

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson

 

[thebeamanater107]

Ya sound like a fairly young one, somewhere between figuring it out and knowing where it's at.
Your half way doomed to find yourself in a bar in the not so distant future. At that age the bar is something of a vortex that sucked up a large portion of your social contacts.

Now, you say that you could have cared less about what was going on with the piece of fluff and her group of players ....
Really?
If trouble is going to start, that's a perfect setup for it. Thus it makes sense to keep an eye on it before the fission starts.
You missed some critical activity there, and probably a whole lot more.
Like that dude at the other end of the bar eyeballin the piece of fluff like he still had the Mojo he vaguely remembered back in the 70's or 80's. Go ahead ... next time your roped into the joint, scan the crowd and find this guy.Shouldn't be too hard, they really stand out after ya notice them.
Long ago, he found ways to tolerate the antics, convince himself he was happy, and never figured out that it never did him any favors.
Thats why he's still there, thinking he's got a shot with that chick that could have been his daughter. His old crew moved on along without him.

Your his replacement.

You found ways to tolerate it like he did.

There's a theory I hadn't noticed and it lines up just fine. Jay is 39 and hangs out at the bar. The 35-65 year old crowd was gone by 10, and Jay was hanging out with me, Mike, and the group of 6 girls I was with. All the girls age between 21 and 23. Mike dated one of the girls but they're no longer dating. That's all the drama I know about. It appears now that Jay needs a new crew because he's trying to be 23 years old in his head. It makes sense.

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson

 

[Arik]

100% right on leaving. But i disagree about not closing a bar and going to another. Why not have a good time. If something l like that starts to happen just leave. The only problem I see is telling someone you just befriended that you are in fact carrying at the moment. I can see having a discussion about firearms. ...it's a topic. ....but not telling them that you are packing.

I've been going to bars socially for the last 13 years. I have a good time, see old friends, make new ones. Often we close the bar. In all this time I often have a gun, mostly because I was out and doing something else before that. 99% of the time I leave it in the car, sometimes I don't. However in all this time I have yet to walk out angry. I always have a good time. If I see a problem starting I/we leave. I don't care for beer muscles and have nothing to prove. I've never been in a situation where I was in the middle of a confrontation of any part of it. I don't get why that's so hard to do

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Erich]

I've never been in a situation where I was in the middle of a confrontation of any part of it. I don't get why that's so hard to do

You should, of course, do whatever you want - whatever you decide is right for you, is.

I have worked on at least a dozen cases in which perfectly innocent bystanders were killed when a nearby drunk turned out to be an idiot. I suspect the stupid places/people/times wisdom is intended to minimize such instances.