I told the NRA today I agree with background checks

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I cannot and will not support any new background check legislation until such time as the details of exactly what is being checked and exactly what may additionally disqualify a purchase is both precisely and intelligently determined ... there's no room for blind support here. especially in light of the short turn around time on this latest set of infringements.
Its just too easy to smoke a dirty speed ball by you in this area of law
 
After reading this thread, I need to remind some of you that this forum is readable by the public. Some of you provide ammunition for the antigun crowd. As for building a list of gun owners, all they have to do is get the manufacture's records and they will find a lot of us. Use your credit card to buy guns or ammo, well there is another list they can use. Buy your stuff at Wally World, well there is another computer that has your information. In fact, if they want to trace you by your use of this forum, they can. In fact I bet some of you are already in the NSA computers. :eek:

And by filling out the buyers info and warranty registration cards that come with our newly purchased firearms or other related toys?
 
Some of you provide ammunition for the antigun crowd.
Their hatred of human liberty and autonomy is all the "ammunition" they need.

They're bad people with bad motivations and bad goals.

After 55 years of hearing their lies, I'm not going to be suckered into rolling over and giving them what they want without a fight. They despise gun owners, resist or not.
 
Let's do talk about "background checking."


I think that a background check ought to be conducted which would verify date and place of birth as well as any criminal record and current address for anyone who wants to register to vote, and a voter ID issued when complete. If you don't have one, you don't vote.

As for asking government permission to exercise a right guaranteed under the Constitution, I don't favor it. The recordkeeping alone constitutes firearms registration. First you find out who has 'em, and then you round them up. Maybe not now, but in the "brave new world" to come that will be inhabited by our descendents, the probability is high. And that fundamental transformation is now in progress. The risk/reward ratio is not sufficient to give up a God-given right predating the Constitution itself. Criminals will always get their guns, and any kind they want, one way or another. By definition, criminals do not obey laws. That will never change no matter how many laws you pass that only affect the law-abiding.

Also, it should be remembered that this is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. Every law, every executive order, should be vetted as being valid under the terms outlined in the Constitution, and in particular, the Bill of Rights. If that validity is challenged by any party of interest, it should go right to the Supreme Court for adjudication - and quickly. For example, let's say a law is passed that you have to register and be approved by the government in order to "blog" on the internet. That, in my opinion, would infringe on the First Amendment, and should be reviewed and adjudicated before it could take effect. Any laws or orders that run contrary to the Constitution are supposed to be null and void and not enforceable. That fact has been played with fast and loose way too often in recent years.

It's high time that Constitutional provisions be observed again - the supreme law of this land.

Yes, I know I'm an irascible old curmudgeon. But in my defense, I remember when this was a free country. I simply want to ensure that my children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren enjoy the distinction of living in one also. I'm not willing to let go of the joy of freedom for them without a fight. I'm in my sunset years, but they will have to live in a world that we either supported, or by our inattention, will be imposed on them.

The NRA is one of the last bastions of freedom in this country, and I urge each of you to get on board as a member before it's too late. I would hope that someday no grandchild of yours has to sit on your knee and ask "Where were you when it really counted? And how did you let this happen to us?"

John
 
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OK so give em everything they want, just this one time. That'll end this debate and we responsible gun owners can get on with life wearing our second amendment shoulder patch proudly. Life is good for everyone. Libs and anti gunners feel secure; Gun enthusiast put up with some minor inconvenience, The End, Right? But no, smarter people than me work very hard 24/7 to monitor the closed door actions and intentions and long term plans of our left wing empire building monarchy called the DC Pros until the next time this fight arises, and there most certainly will be a next time reactionary debate(attack) on the second amendment! Only next time we and our supporters will be in a weakened position, having given in "just this one time". Next time semi automatic handgun are outlawed unless you re-register, limited ammo purchases with proof, and by the way pay an annual fee assessed at
$300./per gun. Wheel gunners may support that last one.ha While this plan is being implemented and seeing as back ground data base will contain records of VA, dept of labor, social security and CDC recommendations to weed out undesirables, and by the way why not require every gun purchaser pre new and improved data base be required to reapply and under go another back ground check just to be certain no ineligible gun owner slipped thru a loophole.
My vote and money will not give an inch on any new restrictions except a responsible check on mental deficiency.
 
What part of "shall not be infringed" is so difficult to understand?

And where did the notion come from that a "felon", after he paid his debt, has no right to protect his family ? Or better yet, fight tyranny?

Or that someone who who has some kind of trivial mental disorder has no right to protect himself?

All of these little feel-good "reasonable" infringements eventually add up.


Convicted of a Felony, a citizen of the USA looses their 2A rights,,and their right to vote.

The convicted felon can petition the Gov't (through the Atty/Genr'ls Office) for restoration of their 2A rights.
Many people seem not to be aware of this process.

It is a reletively simple process and most get approved after review...
ON THE GROUNDS OF THE SECOND AMMENDMENTS RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

Their 2A right is not going to be restored if they do not petition,,it most likely will be if they do.


Read more about it in this article. Many more are available on line.
Ex-Convicts in US face little difficulty in getting gun rights restored « JOURNAL OF HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS

If you've ever worked in a prison or even with hard core felons,,I don't think you'd feel than many should be packin' legally..
But there's the problem,,regardless of the laws,,they will anyway if they want to.
 
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Their hatred of human liberty and autonomy is all the "ammunition" they need.

They're bad people with bad motivations and bad goals.

I have found a great number of antigun people i encounter to be people who have no experience or knowledge at all of guns. They are afraid of what they do not know. I grew up in the country where most all my friends had guns to the burbs where none of my friends have guns. Most did not know i owned any guns for years until gun discussions arose. Slowly i have changed minds of quite a few people(not all) not by arguing but by example and a little hands on experience.

The biggest struggle i have is my stepsons have been given tainted opinions and teachings by there high school teacher and professor. I still try my best.
 
What part of "shall not be infringed" do people not understand? It's dismaying to see members here with NRA stickers next to their names willing to go over the slippery slope. After "universal" background checks, there will be "universal" registration. Every gun owner and gun serial number with name, address and all other personal information will be in a government computer. This is one step from "universal" confiscation.
Give a mouse a cook and he'll want a glass of milk.
 
Their hatred of human liberty and autonomy is all the "ammunition" they need.

They're bad people with bad motivations and bad goals.

I have found a great number of antigun people i encounter to be people who have no experience or knowledge at all of guns.
But they're not the people pushing this swill. They're just dupes, like the hundreds of thousands of Japanese who bought copies of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" in the '80s. They're ignorant and easily led by the nose.

That's why it's so desperately important to expose the ringleaders for the liars they are, and not to give up one inch to them.
 
OK so give em everything they want, just this one time. That'll end this debate and we responsible gun owners can get on with life wearing our second amendment shoulder patch proudly. Life is good for everyone. Libs and anti gunners feel secure; Gun enthusiast put up with some minor inconvenience, The End, Right? But no, smarter people than me work very hard 24/7 to monitor the closed door actions and intentions and long term plans of our left wing empire building monarchy called the DC Pros until the next time this fight arises, and there most certainly will be a next time reactionary debate(attack) on the second amendment! Only next time we and our supporters will be in a weakened position, having given in "just this one time". Next time semi automatic handgun are outlawed unless you re-register, limited ammo purchases with proof, and by the way pay an annual fee assessed at
$300./per gun. Wheel gunners may support that last one.ha While this plan is being implemented and seeing as back ground data base will contain records of VA, dept of labor, social security and CDC recommendations to weed out undesirables, and by the way why not require every gun purchaser pre new and improved data base be required to reapply and under go another back ground check just to be certain no ineligible gun owner slipped thru a loophole.
My vote and money will not give an inch on any new restrictions except a responsible check on mental deficiency.

Very well said. To the Yeahsayers, please hear this! If you think when they get their background check etc enacted, they will be oh so jolly happy and go away. They won't, to them that is merely step #1, now they will start on step #2 and then on to step#3 and it will not end until all your 2A God given rights are GONE! Once they have all our guns, what usually follows is tyranny and dictatorship. It has happened in every country in history mostly because they did not have a Constitution nor Bill of Rights to fight for like we do. Join the NRA!
 
If I hold CCW permit, which I do, having been thoroughly checked out by the FBI and State, why should I have to pay for a background check every time I buy a gun or a box of ammo?

I have a similar gripe about Illinois and FOID cards...
 
I'm surprised by all the posts in favor... Especially the ones saying "well my state has had background checks and it hasn't effected me".

To me it's similar to saying "I don't own an AR so it doesn't bother me if they're banned".

I'm very unhappy (to put it nicely) that the state of PA has a registry of all the handguns I have purchased.

The funny thing is stances like this are why I don't have the NRA logo next to my name yet. They are awfully fond of negotiating away our 2A rights. Still they're the biggest dog in the fight which is the only reason I'd join.
 
Do you know the protocals they're proposing? No , you do not as nothing official has been proposed!

Current background checks have nothing to do with registration on the Federal level. There is no FEDERAL or PA state record kept on civillian long guns other than the 4473 which stays with the dealer. PA state police keep an (illegal) record of sale of all handguns sold within the state.

Your state might do it differently.

The check is only if an individual is eligible , not convicted of any disqualifying crimes. There is no description of the gun.

FWIW;

All legal civillian-owned machine guns were registered in 1934 and there has been NO confiscation of MGs. There has been practically zero ccrimes committed with legally registered machine guns either.

I don't have to know what their specific plans are, I can think logically about how it can only be enforced and follow it logically to the inevitable conclusion.

Suppose it is passed. How will they stop Bill and Bob from conducting a transaction? That will require some kind of tracking mechanism, which means registration.
 
I also live in PA and have to do a BC. It's no big deal. if thats all I have to do to own the guns I want, so be it. there were a dozen mass shootings last year, something's got to be done. So the question to the folks who say no to BC: What can we do to curtail this phanomenum that has taken the lives of so many? We have to at least try. If this keeps up, you can bet they will make it harder for all to enjoy our sport.
 
Well Bushmaster I have to agree with you.Background checks are a necessary evil these days and while I don't like them I guess the convicted murderers could be released from prison(as they are every day)and stroll into the gunshop and make a purchase without any question.Okay I know this statement is a little over the top because they would probably rather steal one than buy one.I remember my first couple of handgun purchases that involved a background check and a 7 day waiting period.So in light of that the check ain't that big of a deal if you got nothing to hide.As Pa Reb said we have had them in PA for many years and unless you're a problem child there isn't "usually" a problem.Too bad we don't live in a perfect world.

What you fail to realize is that the felon will get his gun anyway.

Lets skip to the end result. Lets assume all civil ownership of arms is banned. Theoretically bad guys can't get guns *anywhere* now, right?

Except Raoul Moat, UK prison escapee, acquired a shotgun 2 days after his escape . If an escapee can get a gun in a firearm hostile nation like Britain, no BG check will stop a felon here.Thats a fact you can take to the bank.
 
I'm very unhappy (to put it nicely) that the state of PA has a registry of all the handguns I have purchased.


The State of PA doesn't. Registration is expressly against PA law.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6111.4: Registration of firearms
Notwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary, nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any government or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership within this Commonwealth.


The PA State Police do.

The PASP has had I believe 3 PA Supreme Court orders thru the years (fought for by the NRA) to dismantle their registry and destroy the records.

They refused by renaming it a "record of sale database".
 
Ya know, as an FFL you'd think I would be for background checks for every one, after all I would profit from it.
HOWEVER, I don't favor it as it's just one more restriction on our God given rights.
I swear, we are our own worse enemy sometimes.
 
What you fail to realize is that the felon will get his gun anyway.

Lets skip to the end result. Lets assume all civil ownership of arms is banned. Theoretically bad guys can't get guns *anywhere* now, right?

Except Raoul Moat, UK prison escapee, acquired a shotgun 2 days after his escape . If an escapee can get a gun in a firearm hostile nation like Britain, no BG check will stop a felon here.Thats a fact you can take to the bank.


Criminals, well they do what criminals do...Rob, rape and murder, even in prison.

Background checks won't stop them.
.
 
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