I'm horrible with a pistol! advice needed

[Ranger17]

OP, unless i missed it i'm thinking you are doing your shooting outdoors in the cold/snow. That said, are you shooting with gloves (or a cold bare hand) that can affect your hold?
Or even is your body feeling that same chill, where a steady stance is difficult?

All the years i lived in WI and bowhunted, i could practice all i wanted with thicker clothes, gloves, etc on but those cold am's in the tree stand still had an effect on me.

just thinking out loud on this one...

 

[Explodingvarmints]

I tried with and without gloves. It has been really cold so I've just been sliding the door open in the walk out basement, shoot a mag worth, and go back in to warm up.

OP, unless i missed it i'm thinking you are doing your shooting outdoors in the cold/snow. That said, are you shooting with gloves (or a cold bare hand) that can affect your hold?
Or even is your body feeling that same chill, where a steady stance is difficult? And yes, bowhunting in the cold is rough for sure.

All the years i lived in WI and bowhunted, i could practice all i wanted with thicker clothes, gloves, etc on but those cold am's in the tree stand still had an effect on me.

just thinking out loud on this one...

 

[Explodingvarmints]

Thank you for all the wonderful information. I really think this will help to cut down the learning curve. I'll start with the dryfire and grip practice ASAP. Hopefully I'll get some nicer weather on the weekend for once and can report back with an update.

Thank you all very much.

 

[wittmeba]

ras offers good advice.

This may sound like silly advice but it is not meant to be.

Be sure you know how to use your sights - however you use them and what works right for you.

This is similar to what ras posted...but perhaps a different view.

And this:

What works for me - what works for you and others may be different. I prefer option 2 as I don't want to block any part of my target like option 3.

- look past the end sight at your target
- move your gun to be in align with the target while looking thru the rear sight to the front sight
- keep your focus on the target not the front sight

I don't have optics on any guns I own but can do quite well with open sights.

Practice, practice and more practice. Don't just shoot for the sake of shooting. Place targets at the distance you want and make honest attempts to hit bullseyes. Check after 3-5 shots to how you are doing. Work on consistency, then you may find you need to adjust your sights to your shooting style.

 

[Ranger17]

I tried with and without gloves. It has been really cold so I've just been sliding the door open in the walk out basement, shoot a mag worth, and go back in to warm up.

well only been shooting for a year I hardly can offer a lifetime of knowledge, I just know that when my body gets cold (i left WI for SC in 09 due to winter and now i'm cold down here lol) it is hard to be able to maintain consistant body control when i've tried shooting anything outdoors. Heck i only use the local indoor range here and can find it takes a mag or 2 to get into a good groove (though my aim is solid at the start). Not sure what you have there for indoor options, but that may not be a bad idea -- spend a solid 1/2 hour minimum going thru some mags to see if you can build a better form that you are comfortable with.
just a newbie's .02

 

[Engieman]

Here's a mantra for you....."sight alignment and trigger control." Most if not all of missed shots can be traced to these two things in some way or form. I focus on 'pulling' the front sight through the rear sight while maintaining the correct sight picture. Say it over and over again till the little voices in your head take over......

 

[Rastoff]

You can't say this...

ras offers good advice.

...and then follow with this...

- keep your focus on the target not the front sight

...because the two are mutually exclusive and contrary.

If you don't focus on the front sight, you'll eventually not use the sights at all. Focusing on the front sight is the only way to get really precise shots.

There are ways to get the sights and target in focus, but that requires equipment. Things like a red dot or peep sight will allow that, but it cannot be done with standard combat sights like we see on the M&P.

So, Explodingvarmints, please, keep your focus on the front sight for now. Once you get that down, we can move on to other types of sight pictures.

 

[Sgt 45]

Only problem I see with starting with a .22 is finding ammo for it at a reasonable price and I'm not talking about $65 for a brick of 500 or worse. The Laserlyte is a great help with the 9mm insert and target you can start a 3-5 yards, slowly and your trigger press will show up on the screen. You practice and practice. If your M&P 9 has a rotten trigger, an APEX trigger is not a bad investment. MDFI also has a beginner class coming up very soon, you can check them out at trainmdfi.com.

 

[Rastoff]

Let's talk about this image for a moment:

This is floating around the internet and it gives a false impression.

Sight picture #1 is called the 6 o'clock hold. it is most commonly used by target shooters. It's fine for a gun with adjustable sights that will always be used to shoot at the same target. Bullseye shooters like this because it's easier to put the sight at the bottom of the circle than the center. However, it is not a good combat sight picture because targets are rarely the same size. So, as the size of the circle changes, so will your Point of Impact (POI).

Sight picture #2 is called the center hold. This is how 99% of the handguns on the market today are sighted. With the tops of the sights aligned and the top of the front sight on the center of the target. This is the perfect combat sight picture because the center of the target will always be the center no matter how far away or what the size is.

Sight picture #3 is relatively new to the pistol market and is most often called the combat sight picture. As I type this I only know of one manufacturer that makes combat pistols designed to use this sight picture. The idea here is to line up the dots and put the front sight dot on the target. The graphic above is highly misleading. Here's why:


Look at this picture:

This is an actual picture I took of an M&P. Notice that the dots are not lined up perfectly. Even though they are not, if they were lined up perfectly, the tops of the front and rear sights would not be lined up properly. So, there is a disparity between the dot method and lining up the tops of the sights.

Further, notice that the dots are not the same size like they are in the graphic at the top of this post. The reason for that is that they are actually the same physical size. Therefore, because the front sight is further away, it appears smaller. This is not a camera trick. Look at your own sights and you'll see this is true.

The conclusion to be drawn here is that the dots are not to be used as a sighting device. They are there to help acquire the sight picture quicker, that's all. In fact, misaligning the sights by attempting to line up the dots will actually throw your accuracy off further. It has to do with angles and distance. I'll go into that if this is not clear enough on its own.

If the dots and the top of the sights are both correlated, the actual difference between the two sight pictures would only be fractions of an inch at the target. As I've shown, they are rarely correlated.

 

[old&slow]

Focusing on the front sight is the only way to get really precise shots.

So, Explodingvarmints, please, keep your focus on the front sight for now. Once you get that down, we can move on to other types of sight pictures.

+1 ,,, ( I don't know rastoff, but from the posts I've seen here , he does an excellent job of explaining stuff ,,)

Safety First ,, Then :
You can practice your dry firing at a blank wall.. ( old bullseye practicing method)
All you have to do is focus on the front sight and drop the hammer without moving the front sight.
No targets needed ,, just sight aligment and trigger control.

 

[El Campo]

As has been suggested a class is nice. If you are like me when I first got a pistol its possible you can not find one close enough to you. I had that problem so I got some of the "trainer' targets as mentioned above and it showed me exactly what I was doing wrong. I was consistent but my consistency was in hitting low and to the right. The target SUGGESTED (and no it doesn't know everything for everyone) that I was tightening my grip as I squeezed off rounds. I practiced doing like it said and immediately my shooting improved dramatically. That was with the crappy M&P trigger even. Then I got an Apex and it got so much better yet... A concealed handgun class instructor I know suggested balancing a penny on front sight and pulling trigger so as to learn how to pull trigger without jerking or pulling. I never took a class and now strictly with my target and a little practice I empty an entire magazine of .40 at 7-10 yards as fast as I can pull the trigger and every one is a head shot. No its not that impressive but just goes to show what a little practice and minimal resources can do for you if you use them.

 

[wittmeba]

I don't disagree with Ras' additional comments. As pointed out in the first sight picture with nothing else changing but the size of the circle the POI will move and that's not good. That's why I use the second option - it works best for me.

It is much easier to align the top of the sights horizontally with the line horizontal to the bulls-eye...it just works.

I agree you can't keep 3 points at any significant distance in focus but I focus on the target and align the "clouded" image of the front and rear sights into place...again it works for me. You can briefly look back at your sights to confirm the sight image but my focus goes back to the target.

During target practice you usually have time to make adjustments. In defense times you probably won't so it has to be right immediately.

 

[CWPINST]

I teach Concealed Carry classes. I recommend that folks spend about $50 and get a decent CO2 BB pistol, preferably one that is a copy of your carry gun. Mine is an M&P. The triggers are crappy, but it is very good to teach sight alignment and trigger control. It is also quiet and CHEAP to shoot. You will also be pretty surprised at how well you will be able to hit with one.

 

[JJEH]

Lots of great advice here. So all I'll add is please never forget to have fun. As frustrating as it might be at times

 

[hangnoose]

SHOOTING

YOU DID CHECK YOUR EYE DOMINENCE, CORRECT? Then practice/practice/practice. At first make your objective to be a good group size, hold at the exact point of aim each time & don't compensate, or worry about where the shots are landing. A small group will tell you, you are doing well & being consistent in grip/trigger work/aim. the rest is tweaking & fine tuning. DON'T fall into, the last shot was high left, now I need to aim low right folly. At least not in the beginning. Let me amend this a bit. Start saving your boxes, a new piece of cardboard to hang targets on is MUCH EASIER to see, than guess where your shots are going, or the group size. Yes focus on the front sight. If you have different shooting glasses or specs, try them all & see if you shoot any different or better with each. I really want to avoid a too many chefs type of situation but a tip I recently got of holding the sights just a tad more in front/center of my dominant eye has made it more comfortable & natural for shooting with both eyes open, for me. something some of us older dogs have had to re-learn.

 

[wittmeba]

...and don't make several changes between shot groups. You won't know the effect of each change. Do them one at a time and do 3-5 shots again.

 

[Johnmuratore]

I've learned a bunch today from reading Rastoff's posts.
That dot/sight picture and description really rang a bell.

Seriously, thanks Bud

 

[FMCDH!]

Get a 686 + and call it a day. I can hit a 10-12 inch plate 50 yards away no problem.

 

[ejhc11]

Since its too cold outside maybe you could get an airgun for inside, much cheaper and easier to get trigger time. They even make one like your MP 9mm - see here Smith & Wesson Smith & Wesson M&P, Dark Earth Brown. Air guns

Don't forget dry fire before and in-between live firing when you do shoot the 9mm. At least 5 dry fires to every 5 live ammo shots. Don't shoot more than 5 live shots either, rest and focus, then dry fire. No need to rush.