Info about M&P Hand Ejector First Model of 1899?

[FatChance]

I have a S&W M&P Hand Ejector First Model of 1899 I would like some information about.

The serial number is 159x so it is probably early in the production (1900?) and has no martial marking so must be civilian. It has a 6.5" barrel, blue finish, case colored trigger and hammer. There are patent dates between two iron crosses on the top of the barrel.

It is .38 caliber but the chambering is not marked on the barrel. The cylinder is 1.6" long, can I assume it is a .38 Special and not .38 Colt or .38S&W? The grips are worn a little smooth (gutta percha?) but are original. The bluing has holster wear on the sides of the barrel and there are one or two spots where the bluing looks stained by a small drop of some solvent (look behind the thumb latch)? Generally, the finish is pretty good and is certainly original. The action locks up solid and is crisp and tight and fully functional. It had been shot recently by the previous owner before I acquired it.

I got it from a friend whose father acquired it in trade for mechanical work from someone "passing through" while he worked at a gas station in Southeastern Colorado in the early 1930s. It came with an old Mexican loop holster in the trade.

This is my first post here and would like to thank you in advance for any information about this revolver and its value you might be able to provide. The pictures aren't great, but should suffice. Thank you!

Edit: Oh, one other question. Is this gun worth getting a factory letter for?

 

[glowe]

Welcome to the Forum. You have a very nice looking .38 M&P 1st Model (1899) that is chambered in 38 Special. Your revolver was shipped in 1899 or 1900, so is classified as a "modern" firearm using ATF standards.

Your S&W was the first K frame style gun made and also the first to be chambered for 38 Special. These were made from 1899 to 1902, with over 20,000 manufactured. Demand is up on these early hand ejectors and values seem to be rising.

As I look as your picture, I see hard rubber grips that look to be in quite good condition, but you state they are worn. Maybe this is the picture that makes them look very good. There is a possibility of refinish, because there looks to be some slight wavy areas on the frame. More pictures would be helpful to help determine if the gun was reblued or in magnificent condition for something over 100 years old. Do you see all the stampings on the barrel clearly? It should have a stamp indicating the caliber and patent dates.

 

[mikepriwer]

Look very carefully at the left side of the barrel, just above the
extractor rod. That is where the caliber marking would be, and it
looks like there is something there. Its not a deep roll marking.
Get it in a good light, and maybe use a magnifying glass.

Does the flat on the underside of the barrel has the same serial
number as the butt, and also the rear face of the cylinder.

If you have the money, a letter is worthwhile, although a lot of these
early 1899's went to Simmons Hardware in St Louis.

Mike Priwer

 

[FatChance]

The gun has not been refinished. That wavy appearance was due to my poor photography skills. Here is a picture of the trademark showing the crisp mark. The original finish (though worn) is very reflective and has not been polished, if you look closely, you can see the reflection of my finger and the camera lens.

This shows that the patent lines are also very crisp and have not been re-polished:

The grips are in very good condition:

Here is a picture of the left side of the frame. No waves. You can see where a solvent drop may have dissolved the bluing?

There is no indication at all of a chambering on the left side of the barrel.

The numbers on the flat under the barrel and the back of the cylinder match the serial number on the butt.

The gun was in the family of my friend (I've known him 10 years) for 80 years before I got it. They lived in a tiny town up in the mountains and never even had the money, much less the desire, to ever refinish this gun. From the screws, it appears to have never been disassembled. It has 110+ years of wear and time stored away, but it is original.



Edited to add some more pictures.

 

[glowe]

While it is not a true sock drawer queen, it seems to be in excellent condition. I assume the bore is bright. It is evident that the gun has not been used much, since there is plenty of bluing still evident on the extractor rod. Looks like you have a real jewel there and has significant value today.

I have not seen any cleaning solvent do that sort of damage to finish or steel, since it actually is pitted. Probably some battery acid or salt attack. Doesn't take away any value in my book. Could also have been a wet spot on the leather holster as well.

From this time forward, I would not store the gun in the holster, since leather tends to pick up moisture and suck the oil off the metal. Some leather tanning compounds also remain in the leather, which are not good for finish. Having said that, I have an 1878 Colt that has never changed in condition while stored old flap holster for years before I learned it was not a good idea.

 

[mikepriwer]

The gun looks to be all original, and in reasonably good condition.
Among other things, blood will remove the bluing, so its possible that
a drop got splashed on the gun.

Since the gun was not in your family, a factory letter is less important.
There is no way that it was originally shipped to one of your ancestors,
so its not likely to be of any personal interest. There is the off-hand
chance that it was shipped to someone important, and then wound
up in the family of your friend, so a letter could be interesting.

It was not uncommon for the caliber roll marking to be missing. No one
knows why this happened, but there are enough instances of it, to
convince us that it did happen.

If it were mine, and I own more than a dozen of them, I'd give it a
thorough cleaning, from the inside out. Typically there might be some
pitting in the bore, due to the use of black powder ammo. Clean that
as well, and then keep it well oiled.

Mike Priwer

 

[FatChance]

Thank you for the information! I should have mentioned that the bore is indeed shiny and has probably only seen smokeless ammunition.

Since it is not marked, can I assume it is a very early .38 Special?

I had been thinking that the spots in the bluing could have been from something like battery acid given the connection with a mechanic, but did not know about the possibility of blood doing that. With gun this age, its history could hold any number of stories. I also have a 1857 vintage Navy Colt and a 1883 vintage 1877 Colt Thunderer and always wonder what stories they could tell about their past.

The gun is stored safely in my Liberty and is not kept in the holster. Does anyone know if an 80+ year old Mexican loop holster could have any value in its own right?

When you say "significant value", I was thinking in about the $600 range, would that be overly optimistic? At any rate, I treasure old firearms like this and plan to keep it as I probably could not replace it easily and recognize the place in the history of S&W that it represents.

I appreciate you both taking your time to share your knowledge and information about this old S&W!

 

[glowe]

It is quite difficult to determine condition with only photos, but if you have a 95% gun, I would think $600 is low. I have seen these at auction in less than 90% condition go for that price recently.

The holster has value as well, but I am no expert in leather holsters so maybe someone else will comment.

You should have no problems with using light 38 Special loads in that gun. Look for low velocity, light bullet weights and have fun at the range.