Instructor meets idiot.

[handejector]

I've never been trained as an Instructor.
I have taught many people to shoot.

The first shot a person ever makes is a BIG deal.
Newbies get ONE round- period.
We'll probably go thru a whole series of loading ONE round at a time.

AFTER they get thru the afterglow, AND demonstrate some common sense and self control, we'll load it up and bang away.

You NEVER know how someone will react to the first shot, whether it is a 95 pound ditz or a 200 pound bubba.
Plan ahead.

 

[The Big D]

Red Level:

I was personally responsible for the exclusion from the ranks of law enforcement many (not exaggerating) active duty personnel and applicants. For various reasons, none of them should be allowed to possess firearms...not even after my work was done.

Couple examples... One active member of the LE community attempted a "suicide by cop" in a community where he was not well known. Happily he failed but appealed my discussion to "disqualify" based on that single episode. Happily, his appeal failed, too.

An applicant verbally stated he would never, under any circumstances, use deadly force. Period. He was afforded multiple opportunities to offer a proper/correct answer; he did not. This applicant was one that any LE organization would hire on paper, but he, too, should not be allowed to possess a firearm.

I support 2A and the rest of the Constitution but cannot accept that any jurisdiction would allow an untrained person to carry a firearm in public without any indication whatsoever that he/she was capable of safe handling and responsible use of a gun.

Be safe.

I agree. Minors, convicted felons, those deemed to be mentally incompetent, convicted drug abusers, etc.

Other than that, who is going to make the determination as to who is to be allowed to own/carry? No one from one of the "progressive" states like NJ, NY, or MD, I hope. As I stated earlier, we in Georgia have very easy access to firearms. It is literally part of our culture. There are thousands of people carrying weapons in Georgia who have had very little if any training. I haven't heard of or noticed any rash of accidental shootings in Georgia.

How many police officers have shot themselves in the foot/leg/butt re-holstering their glops? Maybe citizens need to be held to the same standards of firearms handling as these two famous (infamous?) individuals were.

DEA agent has an accidental discharge of a Glock - YouTube


Dumb cop almost shoots partner - YouTube

 

[Jellybean]

I'm in a hurry and just jumped to the last page, so if this has been brought up please excuse me.

Shame on the instructor friend. More and more people have absolutely no experience or even exposure to firearms, including a lot of rookie police cadets. Some are even in worse shape by having their only exposure from some idiot that thinks he is an expert but doesn't know anything except what he learned from a video game. It sounds as if the instructor wasn't fully aware of who she was dealing with before she stepped onto a range with a loaded firearm and there is only one person to blame for that.

 

[The Big D]

I don't think anyone could teach this student who ponders how to pull the trigger if her finger is on the slide.

I also am now considering if this person (the student) is one who is being "coerced" to carry a gun.

Hmmmmmm...

Be safe.

 

[redlevel]

I . . . . . . . . cannot accept that any jurisdiction would allow an untrained person to carry a firearm in public without any indication whatsoever that he/she was capable of safe handling and responsible use of a gun.

Your degree of arrogance is appalling. I'm glad people with your attitude are not in charge of writing legislation and enforcing laws in Georgia.

Of course I have nothing against training. The problem lies with giving some bureaucrat this kind of authority. I say again, I have not noticed a great degree of carnage here in The Peach State caused by letting these simple Southerners own and carry guns, whether or not they are deemed qualified beyond a background check.

That brings up a question, D. Let's forget about carry. You stated that some people should not be allowed to own firearms without proper training. Are you in favor of adding a training requirement for the simple purchase of a gun? I bet you don't like the fact that we in Georgia are allowed to conduct private sales and trades without some bureaucrat approving it.

 

[Mule88]

Ya just cant fix "STUPID"

 

[slumpy]

Treat em all like barney fife, here's yur one round and your pistol! Now go patrol mayberry.

 

[357larry]

After reading the original post a couple of times, my concern is with the Bimbo's boyfriend. HE gets HER a Glock because HE thinks it would be cool to carry one around. Sounds as if the boyfriend may be unable to meet the requirements to get a CCW or even possess a firearm. Girlfriend gets the CCW, she carries it, boyfriend always has access to it. Sounds like a thug taking advantage of the poor girl. Makes me wonder if the gun was stolen or otherwise obtained illegally.

 

[LHS]

Ya just cant fix "STUPID"

No, but with the proper training it can be taught to be controlled and dealt with.

I still feel bad for the shooter. I really hope she gets more training and learn firearm safety!

Who knows - someday she might be there be there WITHOUT her glock, wishing she could help but instead watch you die ...



... or with some more training and practice be there with it glock and save YOUR life!!

 

[slumpy]

Treat em all like barney fife, here's yur one round and your pistol! Now go patrol mayberry.

On a more serious note, I remember when I went to school I got to take a hunter safety Education class, and received a certificate for passing, guess they don't do that anymore.

 

[M29since14]

Entirely the fault of the "instructor." I don't know what the store owner said after he sent the customer down the road, but the next step should have been to send the instructor along on her way, too.

When I was a lad growing up, I was never allowed to load a repeater of any kind until I had satisfied my Dad that I knew how to use the gun in single-shot mode. This took a while. He always gave me plenty of chances to screw-up and sometimes I wondered if he would ever be satisfied. I guess I just assumed that any (competent) instructor would use the same procedure. Good grief. How idiotic...

 

[quneur]

I still feel bad for the shooter. I really hope she gets more training and learn firearm safety!

Who knows - someday she might be there be there WITHOUT her glock, wishing she could help but instead watch you die ...

My sentiments exactly. She's been banned from the range, instructor probably banned her from her classes and she's had a bad experience. I would be surprised if she 'wants' to handle a gun again. And if she's ever in a situation where she needs to use deadly force...

She should take a simple gun handling course again, if and only if, she's developed a healthy respect for firearms. Attitude towards guns, being prepared, being ready to use it if necessary; all mental aspects which should be address before range time.

Everyone's attitude would probably change if this was their daughter or wife.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

OK! Finally got through reading every single post in this thread! Whew!

I have been a certified instructor for many years. Of all the students I have taught, many had never touched a firearm before, and most had very little experience.

They very first thing I did with every class (after pointing out where the bathroom was!) was to determine each students "Level of Knowledge". That is straight from instructional methodology handbook! A lot of the folks responding to this thread have mentioned it with other words. It is still the same.

Having determined that this particular student was not only a complete novice, but was also a slow learner (understatement), the instructor should have proceeded much more slowly and deliberately.

There were several instructor errors made. The first was not conducting a proper practical assessment of what was learned in the classroom. Our students do not even enter the range until they demonstrate the ability to load, unload, and dry fire (with snap caps) while strictly adhering to the basic gun safety rules.

Then and only then are they allowed to go into the range with one on one instruction, which always starts with .22s.

Proficiency is measured by observing whether or not the student is applying all safety rules. Most importantly "Muzzle in a safe direction at all times" and "Finger off the trigger until on target." We proceed to .38s and then .45s if the student shows competency with the smaller calibers.

Most importantly, the instructor stands DIRECTLY to the side and slightly rearward of the student in such a way that the gun /hand can be grabbed if that muzzle starts to point anywhere but down range.

I have had some students that were incredibly hard to teach. I took my time with them, even to the point of returning to the range at a later date to provide private instruction on my own time.

I think that the student referred to in the opening post was an exceptionally difficult to teach student that needed a whole lot more training and more importantly, assessment, before moving up to the level at which this incident occurred.

It may be helpful for your instructor friend to read this thread.


I think every new shooter should be encouraged (not mandated) to seek proper firearm safety instruction.


WG840

 

[snowman]

OK! Finally got through reading every single post in this thread! Whew!

I have been a certified instructor for many years. Of all the students I have taught, many had never touched a firearm before, and most had very little experience.

They very first thing I did with every class (after pointing out where the bathroom was!) was to determine each students "Level of Knowledge". That is straight from instructional methodology handbook! A lot of the folks responding to this thread have mentioned it with other words. It is still the same.

Having determined that this particular student was not only a complete novice, but was also a slow learner (understatement), the instructor should have proceeded much more slowly and deliberately.

There were several instructor errors made. The first was not conducting a proper practical assessment of what was learned in the classroom. Our students do not even enter the range until they demonstrate the ability to load, unload, and dry fire (with snap caps) while strictly adhering to the basic gun safety rules.

Then and only then are they allowed to go into the range with one on one instruction, which always starts with .22s.

Proficiency is measured by observing whether or not the student is applying all safety rules. Most importantly "Muzzle in a safe direction at all times" and "Finger off the trigger until on target." We proceed to .38s and then .45s if the student shows competency with the smaller calibers.

Most importantly, the instructor stands DIRECTLY to the side and slightly rearward of the student in such a way that the gun /hand can be grabbed if that muzzle starts to point anywhere but down range.

I have had some students that were incredibly hard to teach. I took my time with them, even to the point of returning to the range at a later date to provide private instruction on my own time.

I think that the student referred to in the opening post was an exceptionally difficult to teach student that needed a whole lot more training and more importantly, assessment, before moving up to the level at which this incident occurred.

It may be helpful for your instructor friend to read this thread.


I think every new shooter should be encouraged (not mandated) to seek proper firearm safety instruction.


WG840

Outstanding post, sir. Thank you -and I salute you for faithfully teaching new shooters, even the difficult ones.

Andy

 

[The Big D]

This is what I said..and what you misquoted.

"I support 2A and the rest of the Constitution but cannot accept that any jurisdiction would allow an untrained person to carry a firearm in public without any indication whatsoever that he/she was capable of safe handling and responsible use of a gun."


If you want to pick a fight, count me "in." And properly quote me next time you do.

If a jurisdiction as Arizona wants to allow such a person as the instant student to carry a gun that is just stupid.

Be safe.

Your degree of arrogance is appalling. I'm glad people with your attitude are not in charge of writing legislation and enforcing laws in Georgia.

Of course I have nothing against training. The problem lies with giving some bureaucrat this kind of authority. I say again, I have not noticed a great degree of carnage here in The Peach State caused by letting these simple Southerners own and carry guns, whether or not they are deemed qualified beyond a background check.

That brings up a question, D. Let's forget about carry. You stated that some people should not be allowed to own firearms without proper training. Are you in favor of adding a training requirement for the simple purchase of a gun? I bet you don't like the fact that we in Georgia are allowed to conduct private sales and trades without some bureaucrat approving it.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

snowman;Outstanding post, sir. Thank you -and I salute you for faithfully teaching new shooters, even the difficult ones.

Andy

Thanks for the kind words. I enjoy teaching, so it's not like I am putting myself out in any way.


WG840

 

[Waldo]

I am not an instructor, but I have taken people to the range that have never shot a gun before. I go over the basics with them. I always demonstrate, using my finger like it was a gun, how people turn around and sweep the firing line with their gun. I always start new shooters with a .22 revolver and stand close behind them, where I can stop them if they start to turn with a loaded gun.

 

[sheriffoconee]

Put me with the crowd who feels that the instructor did the student a disgraceful disservice, as did the range that banned her. This is the instructors fault, not the students. We have taken employees who have never held a firearm in their lives and made marksmen (and markswomen) of them on many, many occasions, but we never got their by handing them a loaded self loading pistol and letting them bang away....shameful behavior on the part of the instructor...and we now have a young lady who has been soured on the whole "instructor, range, gun" world....instead of a trained individual who can protect herself and promote the proper use of a handgun...gee, thanks a lot...for NOTHING

 

[Big Cholla]

I once had a female student in nearly the same situation. Her 'significant other' had decided that they both would take a personal handgun defense course. They came to the two day course with identical Glock 17s. I was going thru the range rules, course curriculum, and miscellaneous rules. I noticed this young lady was silently crying. I took her to one side and asked what her problem was. She had never fired a handgun, was afraid of them, didn't think that she could ever fire one properly, etc...... But her significant other was insistent that she take the course because they were now going to keep loaded handguns in the house. I had the class come to the line and dry fire for a considerable amount of time. I then broke out my S&W Model 63 and put one cartridge in the next chamber up. I told everyone else to continue dry firing. I quietly told the young lady that she could do this and that I was going to be right at her side. I positioned her in front of a IPSC target about 3 yards away. I put the handgun in her hands with my right hand under her two hands. I had my left hand on her right shoulder. I told her to shut her eyes tight. I then talked her thru pulling the trigger. She was silently crying during all this. When the .22LR went off she almost fainted. I told her, "See you have now shot a handgun and nothing happened to you." Now look at the hole in the target." She was thrilled. I then loaded one more and told her to do it all over again with her eyes open. We went over the handgun safety rules again. I explained the sight picture. She shot the S&W Model 63 for the first morning. I transitioned her to the Glock 17 after lunch. By the end of the second day she was consistently out shooting her significant other and was the second best shooter in the class. In fact she was so good that I tried to talk her into going on to competitive shooting. She wasn't interested in doing that but did go on and get her Nevada CCW. I saw her on the street about 3 years later and she thanked me for my patience and good shooting instruction. She also said that she never sees a handgun without thinking about me and my safety instructions. ......... Big Cholla

 

[growr]

Most, if not all of us that having been in the instructing game for any length of time have had the student like bigcholla had with a similar outcome which to me is what it is really all about. Very gratifying to me and I am sure to my colleagues as well.

It is with the challenging, and have never fired before student that makes me earn my keep as an instructor. Working with these folks will find and magnify any weakness we have as instructors. We can all enjoy working with the motivated and adept student. I have found that with the challenging comes great rewards as well.

Last year I had a couple that were in their mid 70's and neither of them had ever fired a handgun in their life. They bought a Ruger MKIII and a SW Sigma 9mm for the NRA Basic Pistol class and seemed scared to death but were determined. ( They had a home invasion attempt)

The lady, Char did well in the classroom but froze badly when it came to live fire. Having the ability to explain things in a number of ways until the light bulb came on in her brain took a great deal of patience. In Char's case like all other students, we would not let her progress to the next layer until she had mastered the skill we were working first.

Yet, when it was all done and over it was Char that said to her husband, " Now that was fun, we need to go shooting more often honey!"
What a dramatic turn around that had a high potential of going sour.

Isn't that a big reason we became instructors in the first place?

In the OP's case I would have seem this failure as MY failure as an Instructor, NOT the failure of the student.

Randy