Insurance for self defense shooting

[Charlie Foxtrott]

So what is your firm?

CCW Safe for me, a defense attorney who represents business and industry, including insurance companies and the their insureds in different matters.

Your post suggests, perhaps, that you do not appreciate how much litigation is backed by insurance coverage. Might not be the case, but it reads that way. In fact, most companies with sufficient assets and awareness have insurance policies to cover employment practices liability, officers and directors liability, different types of professional negligence, general liability, workers compensation, etc. These companies are not coming out of pocket, beyond a self-insured retention or deductible, very often.

I regularly represent huge multinational corporations, professional sports teams, constuction companies, casinos, different types of manufacturers, hospitals, banks and the like, my firm having been retained by their insurance company pursuant to a policy. A lot of small and medium sized businesses too. Most of these folks think that that I am pretty good.

What do you mean when you say, "and they will never work on a retainer basis for an insurance company"? Do you know how a retainer works? Basically, it is a deposit against which the attorney will bill his fees and costs. So, let's say that you walk into my office and say, "Hi, I've been accused of "XXXX" and I need a lawyer." If we have no history together, I might ask you to deposit $25,000 - $50,000 against which (retainer) against which the firm bills its hourly rate, expenses, etc. The fee agreement would typically have you replenishing the retainer if exhausted, or after mediation, or before trial, etc. This is so we do not have to chase our money. It's a fairly typical arrangement. The funny thing, is that most of the insurance companies do not pay a retainer. We (the firm) are panel counsel and do a lot of work for them. We have little concern about a massive insurance company paying its bill. Now, to be sure, it will try to cut the bill here and there and pay a lower rate than those paying "out of pocket". Insurance companies have the bargaining power to negotiate a lower rate. No doubt.

Your comment about good lawyers not working for/with insurance companies just misses the mark. You've excluded most firms and certainly every major law firm in the United States. Think about this, how many criminal defendants can actually pay a lawyer's bill? I can tell you, there are plenty of GREAT criminal defense attorneys who would appreciate the opportunity to defend a case with insurance company backing.

That said, I chose the liability coverage option that CCW Safe offers because, to me, it makes sense that the insurance company should have some "skin in the game." Oh, and Martindale is basically irrelevant. Your post is probably the first time that I've heard anything about Martindale in 10+ years.

Got a name?

 

[Charlie Foxtrott]

But you do not specialize in anything.

"I regularly represent huge multinational corporations, professional sports teams, constuction companies, casinos, different types of manufacturers, hospitals, banks and the like, my firm having been retained by their insurance company pursuant to a policy. A lot of small and medium sized businesses too. Most of these folks think that that I am pretty good."

That is pretty interesting in and of itself as most really good attorneys usually do.

 

[csurp34]

I will be switching from USCCA to CCW Safe in a few months when my USCCA policy expires for several reasons.

One is that USCCA has changed its terms and now they have the option to charge back if you are found guilty. I assume that also means if taking a plea becomes a sensible option.


The second reason is that noted self defense attorney, Andrew Branca, has come to the same conclusion

 

[NCBeagle]

Got a name?

I'll send it to you via private message.

I am well known to many of the folks on here. Join the S&WCA and come over to the "private side" and my name will be right there for you. PM inbound.

 

[NCBeagle]

"I regularly represent huge multinational corporations, professional sports teams, constuction companies, casinos, different types of manufacturers, hospitals, banks and the like, my firm having been retained by their insurance company pursuant to a policy. A lot of small and medium sized businesses too. Most of these folks think that that I am pretty good."

That is pretty interesting in and of itself as most really good attorneys usually do.

You asked, "Do you specialize in anything?" My practice is 100% litigation. Employment law, product liability, professional negligence, other civil liability matters. It's not a transactional practice. My clients have been sued, or are likely going to be sued.

 

[giants1]

CCW Safe; Umbrella Policy

You asked, "Do you specialize in anything?" My practice is 100% litigation. Employment law, product liability, professional negligence, other civil liability matters. It's not a transactional practice. My clients have been sued, or are likely going to be sued.

Thanks for your post and service to our country.

CCW Safe is on my short list. Would you tell us your reasons for selecting CCW Safe?

Also, is there any benefit of having an umbrella policy, my being a homeowner, or do those typically exclude self-defense incidents?

 

[NCBeagle]

Thanks for your post and service to our country.

CCW Safe is on my short list. Would you tell us your reasons for selecting CCW Safe?

Also, is there any benefit of having an umbrella policy, my being a homeowner, or do those typically exclude self-defense incidents?

One reason, I liked CCW Safe's "unlimited" (everything is limited in some way) defense plus $1,000,000.00 liablity coverage. It's not a wasting policy, where the defense cost eats away at the amount available to pay a judgement. Also, on the civil side, I think it is important for the insurance company paying for your defense to share the financial risk.

As for homeowner and umbrella policies, I cannot comment on your specific policy. Often, homeowners policies and related umbrella policies exclude intentional acts or have other exclusions which, arguably, exclude self-defense coverage. The coverage issue can be a subject of litigation. Courts have gone both ways depending upon the policy language, precedent, etc. Best answer, review the policy yourself and/or with an an attorney to determine to what extent, if any, it might cover self-defense incidents.

FYI, I am far from an expert in self-defense insurance coverage. I signed up for CCW Safe recently. Feel like like it is the best choice for me. Something else might work better for you. It might be just as good not to buy any insurance. In my profession, see insurance pay for A LOT of litigation. Insurance is cheap. Litigation is expensive. My personal choice, this is a risk for which I want to be insured.

 

[blues7]

The beagle has a dog in this fight. (I couldn't help myself.)

Seems he and I are on the same side. Yet another attorney to throw on my good guy list. What's next? Free beer?

So far, so good with CCW Safe.

(I've had private communications with a few of their folks from Stan Campbell, to Steve Moses and Rob High...and all have impressed me with their replies. This is not evidence of anything, but offered as "for what it's worth". That said, I trust my inner radar. It's rarely let me down, professionally or personally.)

 

[giants1]

Thanks, NCBeagle and Blues7.

Blues7, suffice it to say that NCBeagle is NOT barking up the wrong tree, LOL.

Is there a sort of moral hazard in having the liability insurance portion, in that the personal injury attorneys are more likely to litigate, going after the policy limits?

 

[blues7]

Thanks, NCBeagle and Blues7.

Blues7, suffice it to say that NCBeagle is NOT barking up the wrong tree, LOL.

Is there a sort of moral hazard in having the liability insurance portion, in that the personal injury attorneys are more likely to litigate, going after the policy limits?

I don't know if we can generalize, and some states indemnify individuals who have been found to be within the parameters of the law in defending themselves.

That said, I wouldn't put anything past opposing counsel based upon my experiences in court while working as an LEO.

So the answer, to my mind, is to be prepared for anything.

In any case, having the financial backing, (civil and criminal), is something I value in the event I ever find myself in need of legal services for defending myself or loved ones.

 

[Nevada Ed]

If it IS in self defense .......................

you don't need no stinking insurance.

Just don't shoot them in the back !!

 

[9mmPatriot]

Come on Ed, you've been around the block a time or two. Any prosecutor would be chopping at the bit if there's even a PERCEPTION OF IMPROPRIETY.


Even a righteous shooting could bankrupt an innocent man/women.

 

[oldiegoldie]

Come on Ed, you've been around the block a time or two. Any prosecutor would be chopping at the bit if there's even a PERCEPTION OF IMPROPRIETY.


Even a righteous shooting could bankrupt an innocent man/women.

agree completely regarding litigation can wipe out one's assets, even when one eventually prevails. it's the world we live in.