Ogandydancer
Member
Which City My sister and BIL live near Tyler and work and shop there. They also have a Lubys as I remember.
@RobzGuns, can't just ingnore in NC they carry the force of law.
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Interesting experience at a "no firearms allowed" restaurant
- Thread starter vito
- Start date
Which City My sister and BIL live near Tyler and work and shop there. They also have a Lubys as I remember.
@RobzGuns, can't just ingnore in NC they carry the force of law.
lhump1961
US Veteran
We must not watch/read the same things...I haven't heard of a ND in recent memory...anywhere. If it were occurring I'm sure the media would jump on it. I would venture to say that there are far more robberies every day than ND's.
That stuff aside I believe businesses can do as they see fit and I don't carry where it's posted out of respect...I disagree but since I don't own the place...
gdnagle
US Veteran
Dr. Suzanna Hupp fought legislation to impose more strict firearm laws in Texas, She also fought to have the Texas law repealed which kept her from legally bringing her fire arm with her at that time in October 1991.
At the time, people were not permitted to carry a weapon into public places.
"Hupp said she realized she'd obeyed Texas law and left her gun in her car. (this was her response why she left her firearm in her vehicle) At the time, people were not permitted to carry a weapon into public places."
I remember this issue weather she did it on her own I don't know but I feel she was instrumental in getting the law repealed. I'm sure if I wrong I will be corrected but this is what I have read about the issue. There is a good youtube video featuring her and her speech to the legislators.
As for patronizing an establishment with no gun signs you can't change their minds like stated, you either ignore them or best to take your business else ware and let them know why you did.
Maybe a idea would be for several groups of people to make large party reservations at one of these establishments then when you get there go in and cancel and tell them why after pretending to see the sign. Do this for severial times a night and maybe they would take the hint as you have tied their tables up. Large parties they reserve the tables up to 1/2 hour before you get there so they can make sure they have them. Course I don't know if where you live if they would try to charge you something.
As for your son ask him if being LE that every establishment he has responded to a armed robbery, if he has, they didn't have a no gun sign and has never responded to a robbery at a establishment that they did have one. Or if he has ever heard of a shooting in a gun free zone, kinda like a drug free zone where no one ever carries drugs.
Like stated you will never change the mind of an anti until something happens to them and most of the time not even then as they like to blame a inanimate object, rather then put the blame where it belongs. I have proof about a inanimate object, I have a .45acp that has set in a drawer for over 40 years loaded and has never hurt anyone.
It was the Luby's in Killeen, TX
Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Survivor of the 1991 Kileen TX Lubys Shooting Massacre - YouTube
Shooting rampage at Killeen Luby's left 24 dead - Houston Chronicle
If that's the case with unofficial 'No Gun' signs there, then there are quite a few places that wouldn't get my business... Simple as that.
"What was really discouraging about the whole incident was that my son, who is in law enforcement, seems to agree with this manager that having a "no guns allowed" policy makes him, and likely other customers "feel" safer. Amazing and sad."
I'm disappointed at your son's position on this! I would certainly think a LEO would know better than to believe that a sign prohibiting CCW in a privately owned establishment makes for a safer place??
I'm disappointed at your son's position on this! I would certainly think a LEO would know better than to believe that a sign prohibiting CCW in a privately owned establishment makes for a safer place??
hangnoose
Member
ROADHOUSE: "BE NICE UNTIL IT'S TIME TO NOT BE NICE"
Each side wants it's rights respected, sounds fair enough to me. Getting confrontational, insulting them by calling them "sheeple" or whatever, making veiled threats about "what I would do if I WERE carrying" is just gonna make the anti's say "gee another rabid gun nut, see why they shouldn't be allowed to carry" and do more harm than good. About post 24 & drawing your c/c fully loaded gun in a posted gun store, sounds like a classic rookie look at me move, and a great way to get shot & arrested if you survive. Nobody cares if you bring an unloaded gun in a case into the store to find a mag/part/holster etc. I see NO LOADED GUNS ALLOWED IN THE PREMISES signs in just about every single gun shop I enter & nobody complains. Many people commit suicide by gun or have kids shot by guns, so IMO it is completely reasonable for them to have a fear or dislike of guns, & My Mother was one, I respected her feelings, & she mine, even though she knew I was a gun nut. In my old line of work the saying was "treat them the way you would want someone to treat your family".
Each side wants it's rights respected, sounds fair enough to me. Getting confrontational, insulting them by calling them "sheeple" or whatever, making veiled threats about "what I would do if I WERE carrying" is just gonna make the anti's say "gee another rabid gun nut, see why they shouldn't be allowed to carry" and do more harm than good. About post 24 & drawing your c/c fully loaded gun in a posted gun store, sounds like a classic rookie look at me move, and a great way to get shot & arrested if you survive. Nobody cares if you bring an unloaded gun in a case into the store to find a mag/part/holster etc. I see NO LOADED GUNS ALLOWED IN THE PREMISES signs in just about every single gun shop I enter & nobody complains. Many people commit suicide by gun or have kids shot by guns, so IMO it is completely reasonable for them to have a fear or dislike of guns, & My Mother was one, I respected her feelings, & she mine, even though she knew I was a gun nut. In my old line of work the saying was "treat them the way you would want someone to treat your family".
I've come across a handful of such instances being reported by local news in recent months (which have been linked via different internet gun forums). More than I'd have expected to read about in that short of a time frame. I certainly wasn't looking to find them.
It started to strike me as odd that so many folks were having problems carrying their guns out in public, because usually you don't hear about so many of them. (Or, they previously weren't being reported so widely ... or linked from local media to more internet readership as often.)
Then I realized that it's also a possibility that it may not be as uncommon as it's been in the past due to the ever increasing opportunities for private citizens to lawfully carry concealed.
It's not going to surprise me to discover that perhaps not everyone is as careful as we all might expect ... or wish ... when it comes to fully familiarizing themselves with their guns and carry methods/holsters. After all, look at the number of folks who can't seem to operate a shopping cart, or motor vehicle, without posing some degree of rudeness, annoyance or risk to other folks.
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jlrhiner
US Veteran
Ever notice how it's OK for the "we know what's best for you, feel good crowd" to disrespect my rights, but theY expect me to bend over backwards to respect theirs?
Concealed means concealed. Those of you who live where the little signs have force of law, try to get your law to look like Missouris.
Concealed means concealed. Those of you who live where the little signs have force of law, try to get your law to look like Missouris.
Alk8944
US Veteran
Best answer yet!
The medical clinic I have gone to for years has "No Weapons Allowed" signs on the doors. When I go for my quarterly check-up I get weighed. My gun, speed strip, billfold, pliers, clippers, scissors, 2 knives, keys, medicine bottles and coin purse all come out and are placed on the table in full view of the nurse. Do yo have any idea how much all this weighs! Never has there been any comment except from my Doctor who has said he is glad I am carrying! He has his own CHL! When I enter all this is concealed, and when I leave also. No one except the nurse and doctor have any idea.
I don't carry weapons, they are tools, just like they were when I was still "In harness".
Sounds like a pretty good reason for the OP to speak with him. Like, if you do and say stupid things in public, you SHOULD have people reacting to you. How else are you going to learn? BTW, I don't think that the OP told him how to run his business - he just asked him some questions and gave the guy the opportunity to do his own job of showing how stupid he was.
BobR1
Member
A few years ago our CCW Law got stalled just before going into affect. I stopped at a convenience store that had the No Concealed Weapons sign up before our CCW was approved.
I told the lady behind the counter that if the sign was still up my next visit I would take my business some where else.
We got concealed carry, and the sign was down my next visit. My guess is I was not the only one to express my opinion on the sign.
Bob
I told the lady behind the counter that if the sign was still up my next visit I would take my business some where else.
We got concealed carry, and the sign was down my next visit. My guess is I was not the only one to express my opinion on the sign.
Bob
SgtLumpy
Member
It might seem a disappointment at first view.
But consider -
Cops respond to PROBLEMS with guns. They respond to drive by's, murders, all kinds of bad guys with guns. They don't respond to "good guys with guns". There's no need. There essentially aren't any "incidents" with good guys carrying guns. Beat cops, especially young beat cops, are rightfully glad to see "another gun taken off the street". Because that gun is being taken out of the hands of a gang banger or other bad guy.
It's hard (for me at least) to blame front line cops for thinking that way.
Now having suggested all that, I realize the relative cop in this thread perhaps feels safer with a "no guns policy". I know that seems backwards to essentially all of us. But don't forget that most cops aren't gun guys. The guns they'd rather not see are the same guns WE would rather not see (bad guy guns). Those non gun guy cops may not have the slightest idea what recreational shooting is all about.
Sgt Lumpy
photoman
Member
Unfortunately, modern thinking is based on fantasy, not reality and feelings instead of logic. Don't waste your time talking to an adult that has the mental maturity of a pimply faced thirteen year old who thinks Tiger Beat magazine is reality. Just carry and don't let them see it.
SgtLumpy
Member
I wish I could find it, but there is a piece written about Sheepdogs VS wolves and the Sheeple's feelings about both.
They are afraid of the wolf because of the sharp fangs and claws and the ability to commit acts of violence towards them.
But they are ALSO afraid of the sheepdog because he also has sharp claws and fangs and can also commit acts of violence (against the wolves of society), even though the sheepdog would NEVER harm the sheeple and the sheepdog is charged with protecting the very sheeple that fear and are sometimes revolted by him.
They don't understand that the fangs and claws of the sheepdog are there for their defense, they only see fangs and claws and fear them because that's what sheeple do.
Pity the sheeple, they live their lives in fear and willl almost never change.
They are afraid of the wolf because of the sharp fangs and claws and the ability to commit acts of violence towards them.
But they are ALSO afraid of the sheepdog because he also has sharp claws and fangs and can also commit acts of violence (against the wolves of society), even though the sheepdog would NEVER harm the sheeple and the sheepdog is charged with protecting the very sheeple that fear and are sometimes revolted by him.
They don't understand that the fangs and claws of the sheepdog are there for their defense, they only see fangs and claws and fear them because that's what sheeple do.
Pity the sheeple, they live their lives in fear and willl almost never change.
Haven't heard of any nd here either but even if it was to happen, the odds of it actually killing someone are alot less than a criminal making aim, IMO.
cmort666
Member
Stupid is as stupid does, and stupidity is the fundamental foundation of gun control advocacy.
cmort666
Member
It's also based on "feelings" substituted for reality. If you don't "feel" that something should or even COULD happen, you can just pretend that it never will. "I've never needed a gun." is code for, "I'm special and bad things only happen to OTHER people."
OP
vito
US Veteran
The comments about LEO attitudes make sense. Since cops are primarily dealing with the lowest scum of society, they probably develop a healthy skepticism about the goodness of people. That might make the thought of having average Joe citizen carrying a loaded gun, in locations where the off duty cop takes his family, a scary prospect. Maybe in states that have had concealed carry for many years, police have gradually learned that the licensed armed citizen is not a threat, but a help for him in doing his job. It will just take awhile for this to happen in Wisconsin and Illinois where concealed carry is very new, or about to come into effect respectively.
After moving to Wi in 1992, was extremely relieved to get out of the Madison area 4 years later. While some good attributes for the younger crowd, otherwise known as yuppie central for the greater Midwest.
The further, the sooner, the better. You're not gonna change their minds, and ain't worth trying.
The further, the sooner, the better. You're not gonna change their minds, and ain't worth trying.
photoman
Member
Arik
Member
No its not. Not carrying is not stupid and it's a personal choice. It's not for everyone, just like not everyone drives. My parents don't carry, never have and don't feel the need to nor feel threatened by people who do. It's irrelevant to them. That's their choice.
And yes if you walk into someone's business and tell him what he needs to allow that is telling him how to run his business.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
I didn't say that not carrying is stupid, although sometimes it is. I was referring to the arguments of the manager in the original post. The OP was performing a public and personal service by confronting the manager's stupidity, whether the manager liked it or not.
I don't particularly care whether the OP was "telling him how to run his business," but if you do, you can re-read the post and decide for yourself whether that was going on. If so, then I guess it was a case where I think that "telling him how to run his business" was a public and personal service. Of course, you can argue that the manager was not educable, and you would be right or wrong, having a corresponding effect on whether the OP's action was a personal service to the manager. However, I feel that it is to his credit that he gave it a shot.
photoman
Member
Nothing wrong with telling the owner your opinion. Most would appreciate the feedback. Just be realistic about how effective the conversation might be.
ca survivor
Member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2013
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here in Florida those signs hold no sand, all they can do is ask you to leave if you're made, but conceal means conceal though.
Faulkner
Member
I hope all you guys with the bad eyesight aren't sitting at the table next to me when the shooting starts. Just saying.
C Broad Arrow
Member
You will not convince the manager of a retail establishment to change their "no gun" policy in a discussion. Never going to happen.
What does have an impact is a photocopy of the dinner bill or the receipt for purchases not bought at the "no guns" allowed store sent along with a note to the president of the company explaining why you went to a competitor. The only currency worth trading in is dollars. Words and arguments are better spent explaining why someone lost a sale rather than trying to convince some poor outlet manager to change a policy he has no authority over.
What does have an impact is a photocopy of the dinner bill or the receipt for purchases not bought at the "no guns" allowed store sent along with a note to the president of the company explaining why you went to a competitor. The only currency worth trading in is dollars. Words and arguments are better spent explaining why someone lost a sale rather than trying to convince some poor outlet manager to change a policy he has no authority over.
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Hooray to the OP for trying to educate the establishment about guns.
I believe many places don't give much thought before posting a 'no gun' sign. The liberals in Madison run around handing them out spouting fear, not common sense.
I have talked to several businesses and two places have taken their sign down.
Remember we have to fight for our rights.
.
I believe many places don't give much thought before posting a 'no gun' sign. The liberals in Madison run around handing them out spouting fear, not common sense.
I have talked to several businesses and two places have taken their sign down.
Remember we have to fight for our rights.
.
G.T. Smith
US Veteran
I agree
I either don't read the signs or simply rely on the fact that my firearm is concealed well. I really can't see well close up without my glasses. If it was that important, I would just go some place where they don't have a sign prohibiting firearms.
Peace,
gordon
I either don't read the signs or simply rely on the fact that my firearm is concealed well. I really can't see well close up without my glasses. If it was that important, I would just go some place where they don't have a sign prohibiting firearms.
Peace,
gordon
