Irresponsible to carry a revolver to protect others?

[fredj338]

1. Sutherland Springs church, Nov. 2017: Steven Williford grabbed his legally owned AR-15 and confronted the shooter. Whillford took aimed fire and shot the shooter where his vest didn't protect.
2. 1997, Pearl Mississippi: a principal used his .45 auto to stop Luke Woodlam, who had killed 2 students and was about to kill more.
3) 2007: Jeane Assam shot and killed mass shooter Matthew Murray in a church in Colorado
4)TN, 2017, an armed citizen (usher) stopped a masked gunman inside a church who had already shot several people.

There are plenty of cases of armed citizens confronting mass shooters.

Yep & not a single LEO in sight.

 

[otis24]

If the discussion boils down to ammo capacity differences between a revolver and a pistol, the discussion is misleading.



The appropriate focus is on what gun you can shoot well at longer distances than are commonly associated with typical sd applications.

In this light, tiny 380's and j frames are disqualified for the vast majority of shooters. They simply can't reliably hit at 25 yards with such weapons.

This leaves full sized pistols such as 1911's and K frame revolvers as the guns of choice.

The issue isn't how many shots you can get off before reloading but rather what you can hit with.

I'm always amused by those who must be planning to miss a lot, so they think they need a large capacity gun, offering themselves up as protectors.

Hitting an assailant does not equate to stopping an assailant. There are reasons an assailant may not stop. Drugs, body armour, psychosis, etc.....I am a die hard revolver fan and believe that for the average person in a situation where you may face one or two attackers, the revolver is adequate. After reading "Why police carry semi-automatics" by Masaad Ayoob, I am convinced that for self-defense, the semi-auto is the way to go. Many of us CCW because we are trying to prepare for the unexpected. You can never know what to expect to face when you go out each day. So prepare, as much as reasonably possible, for the worse. Today's autos are very reliable and bullet designs much more effective than in the past. Astonishingly, good quality autos, like the M&P Shield can be had for under $400. At the same time, quality shooter grade revolvers like the Model 10 are pushing well in excess of that price. I used to be all about all steel revolvers. Never even thought about looking at Tupperware pistols and wouldn't have bought one for 25 cents on the dollar if I had. Now, I love my Shield for the great utilitarian tool that it is. Don't get me wrong, revolvers have their place. But where my family's life is concerned, I will take an auto over nostalgia any time.

 

[otis24]

Many experts will tell you: "Shot placement is key".

What many experts fail to tell you:"It may take MULTIPLE shot placements on MULTIPLE targets to neutralize a threat."

Understanding THAT is key. It is in that regard that the semi-auto excels.

 

[photoman]

Given the religious nature of the question, I would say the solution is 95% mindset and 5% hardware. Refer to 1 Samuel 17 for more information.

 

[otis24]

To put things in perspective: Even gang bangers like their pistols and like the "latest and greatest". How many of them go out in the world armed with a Glock, or something similar, with a 15 round mag and say a couple of spare mags? That would mean a potential threat has 45 rounds of ammo (46 if he had one in the chamber already). Now, let us say that the thug has two friends similarly armed/prepared. That would mean your potential threat, the three thugs, would have 135 rounds of ammo at their disposal if the each had two extra mags. Compare that to a 6 shot wheel gun and two or three speed strips/speed loaders against three determined thugs. Do you like the odds?

 

[7shooter]

Given the religious nature of the question, I would say the solution is 95% mindset and 5% hardware. Refer to 1 Samuel 17 for more information.

I'm calling my J Frame " David ".

JPFO approved.

 

[TomkinsSP]

JMO, don't go head to head in a crowded room exchanging 290 shots unless you are filming an A-Team episode. Deftly put two in the cranium of each miscreant and reload. Revolver works just fine for SD. If being attacked by mall ninjas, a belt fed weapon is more appropriate.

 

[tops]

Several people want a bunch of ammo in case they attacked by several people.
I guess they think the bad guys are going to patiently wait while they are being shot. In reality while you shoot one all the rest are going to be shooting you and you won't even get to the second person.
I have read that in WW2 and Korea unarmed groups would try too over run a machine gun so even with an unarmed group how many times can you pull the trigger.
I know there is a 1 in 10 blue million chance of needing more than 5 shots but I don't see the reason to run and hide every time a car goes down the road because it might run off the road and hit me. Larry

 

[sousana]

Considering the odds of being involved in a defensive shooting and the fact that people with absolutely no training very often successfully defend themselves with firearms everyday in this country, I think most people interested only in self-defense would question the need for such extensive training that some are advocating.

You are much more likely to need to use unarmed skills in self-defense throughout your life and such skills are much harder to learn and effectively apply, but how many people put in the time and training or have the physical ability to do so.

I had exceptional natural ability in martial arts and trained at least 4 hours a day all through high school, so it wasn't a surprise to anyone when I was recruited for Olympic competition and then asked to participate in the UFC.

Self-defense was my stated primary goal and I loved to train and couldn't understand anyone not feeling the same way. I remember I lost a lot of students in the early days who viewed me as a fanatic and looking back they were absolutely right. These were everyday people coming to me wanting to learn some basic self-defense skills in a safe environment just in case and I didn't provide that for them. Looking back, I wasn't even really teaching self-defense, I was teaching street-fighting. There is a very big difference.

I think many defensive shooting instructors take things too far as well and are teaching from a military combat or law enforcement perspective rather than true self-defense. Again, there is a huge difference. Since we are talking security, I think law enforcement lessons apply to a much greater degree, but it is still very easy to carry things too far and lose perspective. An enthusiast loves to train, practice, shoot and compete all the time, but that doesn't mean everybody does or that it is necessary.

Unarmed skills in self-defense are a MUST. You have to know how to defend yourself and your weapon should it come down to hand to hand, thus, it should also be part of your training regimen. BTW, the scariest person I ever met was my IDF Krav Maga training instructor, all 4'7" of her. The most beautiful women I've ever seen, but also the scariest one.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

To put things in perspective: Even gang bangers like their pistols and like the "latest and greatest". How many of them go out in the world armed with a Glock, or something similar, with a 15 round mag and say a couple of spare mags? That would mean a potential threat has 45 rounds of ammo (46 if he had one in the chamber already). Now, let us say that the thug has two friends similarly armed/prepared. That would mean your potential threat, the three thugs, would have 135 rounds of ammo at their disposal if the each had two extra mags. Compare that to a 6 shot wheel gun and two or three speed strips/speed loaders against three determined thugs. Do you like the odds?

I don't know. What do you think the odds are in that case? Three to one? 135 to 6? Do you think that if I carried a Galil and four 50-round mags my odds would be better or worse?

Explain.

 

[TomkinsSP]

While I never went toe to toe with dedicated looking for 72 Virginians (not a typo) jihadis, in my time on the job I was shot at a few times, both by single and multiple assaliants, alone and in the company of other officers.

If you think the average LTC civilian is a bad shot, criminals are worse, and not very good planners. In a church its more likley an angry ex or mad at the world loner than 3 unemployed ex Spetznatz veterans.

If you are CCW, the shooter doesn't know he should be consentrating on you, but you know you should be concentrating on him.

 

[otis24]

I don't know. What do you think the odds are in that case? Three to one? 135 to 6? Do you think that if I carried a Galil and four 50-round mags my odds would be better or worse?

Explain.

We live in a day where compact high capacity autos that are easily concealable are very affordable. In many cases more affordable than even a used good quality revolver. So many people here talk about. the slim chance of being in an armed confrontation to begin with, yet will cling to the ultra reliable revolver because if, in the tiny chance that they are involved in an armed confrontation, their auto pistol may fail. Today's autos are very reliable and ammo improved so much that the once scoffed at .380 is now commonly carried for self-defense. So, while one may not have great odds in a 3-1 confrontation, his odds are greatly improved with a high capacity auto and a spare magazine or two in comparison to a six shot wheel gun. No one is saying that you can not successfully defend yourself with a revolver. All the revolver fans here (of which I am one) make the false assumption that once a gun is drawn or a shot is fired, miscreants will run like rats. They falsely assume that a person with an auto firing multiple rounds is missing his target. They also assume, falsely, that a defender with an auto will respond with a spray and pray mentality. Concealed carry with a hand gun is a compromise. Carrying a compact high capacity auto is an easy, affordable, and reasonable preparation for a worst case scenario that can improve one's odds over 5 or 6 shot wheel gun. Carrying a high capacity auto with one or two spare magazines ensures that you will have more ammunition at your disposal if needed compared to a wheel gun with two speed loaders. You won't know how much ammo you will need until the shtf. Ammo is like a firearm, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

 

[Robspeire]

I carry my Bible all the time. In fact I have one in each vehicle.
Also take one into Church.
Bible Book Safe for Compact Handguns S&W Taurus Ruger

 

[Hasbeen1945]

The inside of my Bible carrier.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Just Saying if'n it's n'a BIBLE case shouldn't it be a JOHN MOSES (Browning)?

 

[Robspeire]

The Bible link I posted above are books made by my nephew.
I am having him make one out of the book:
"Last Man Standing" for my Shield. It will have room for a mag or 2.