Irresponsible to carry a revolver to protect others?

[Mister X]

To the best of my knowledge, the following men carry a high-capacity autoloader more than they do anything else if not exclusively. If you were to take one of their classes, would any of you ask them if "they plan on missing a lot" and question their shooting proficiency for opting to carry a semi-auto with a couple of reloads over a wheelgun?

Massad Ayoob, Tom Givens, Chuck Taylor, Kelly McCann(Jim Grover), Craig Douglas, Dr.Gary Roberts(DocGKR), Gabe Suarez, Karl Rehn, Clint Smith, Travis Haley, Dave Spaulding, Andy Stanford, Larry Vickers, Chris Costa just to name a few.

 

[SRT]

I'd feel safe attending any church service if Jerry Miculek was a member of the congregation and in attendance. Rumor has it that he is pretty good and plenty quick with a wheel gun.

 

[American1776]

Here are my thoughts. I love revolvers. They are reliable, they are well-crafted pieces of historical machinery. However, I would not carry one if my duty was to protect myself and *others*.

When the wheel gun ruled the day, the bad guys that we would face also had wheel guns, or an 8 shot 45 at most. The 6 shooter was comparable to what you'd go up against. Also, the types of threats we would face would typically run away at the first hint of armed resistance.

*TODAY*: We face different types of threats. Many mass public shooters and terrorists expect to die at the scene, so they will stick around and shoot back. Also, they are typically armed with long guns with lots and lots of ammo.

When that evil nutcase shot up that school in Parkland, we know that there were deputies on scene who didn't go inside to confront the shooter. Imagine you are the only one on scene, and you know inside the building is a shooter with a rifle, and you are about to go inside with whatever gun you have on you now. What kind of pistol would you choose now? I honestly accept that I would not want a 6 shooter.

As much as I like my wheelguns, I would not choose one knowing the types of threats that we could face. I'd want at least a 1911 with a spare magazine, and ideally a 12-20 round 9mm pistol with a spare magazine.

This is the reality for me, and I accept it.

 

[Triathloncoach]

Carry something. But how do you argue against the fact that almost every LE/Military Organization in the world carries semiautomatics?

I believe even Dirty Harry would now carry a Glock 20.

 

[Triathloncoach]

Do you plan on missing a lot?

Most people do when someone is actually shooting back. Only in Hollywood do people stand like the Redcoats and fire oblivious to incoming rounds. And I am not Bruce Willis. I anticipate a lot of fear.

 

[riverrat38]

"I believe even Dirty Harry would now carry a Glock 20"

"I know what you're thinking. Did he fire sixteen shots or only fifteen? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself.

Best,
Rick

 

[silversnake]

I'll continue to carry what I want, usually a revolver. If that's not enough for "others", they are welcome to carry their own piece with as much ammo on board as they wish.

 

[shouldazagged]

This deceased horse must be just about beaten to gritty mush by now.

As noted above, it's just the old, old, old which-is-better-revolver-or-automatic argument.

Carry what you trust and can hit with, and don't count on changing the mind of someone who picks the other category. You won't.

I'm a revolver guy in my old age, and unlikely to budge; so I won't try to shift you if you like to carry a .50AE Desert Eagle IWB. Or whatever.

 

[oldiegoldie]

well, here's a revolver that you won't feel under gunned carrying. Magnum Research in the 30-30 caliber.

 

[fredj338]

I shoot a revo almost as well as a pistol @ combat speed. I just cant reload it as fast, though speed loaders & moon clips help. SO yes I would carry a revo but really, in today's enviro, nuts with semiautos, why handicap yourslelf? I love my revolvers, especially snubs, but serious about my personal protection, it is a semiauto with spare mag. Irresponsible, no, but probably better choices.

 

[fredj338]

Police shooting studies show that even trained law enforcement miss on average 80% of the shots fired. Put another way, the "hit rate" was only 20%. Of course the distance mattered with closer higher and further away lower. But if I remember the studies (NYC & Detroit) even 10 feet or less they still missed 60% of the time.

My take away is that people less exlerienced and trained than law enforcement officers will likely have no better results and most likely far worse results. So you may as well count that you will miss at least half (50%) of the shots fired. All the more reason to make damn sure you have no other alternative at your disposal before drawing and firing your weapon.

Automatic Physiological things occur which no human has control over. Adrenaline will be released which causes shaky hands etc. which will negatively affect accuracy of shooting as well as dexterity to reload. training is huge and will help to minimize messing up. But as seen in the studies of police shootings. The human biological effects are real and significant and cannot be overlooked. Even the best most highly trained individual is NOT immune from these real physiological responses.

A person may be able to shoot a fly off a cows rear end at 25 yards at the range. But when the **** hits the fan, they will be damned lucky To hit a human at 10 feet with 50% of the shots fired in the real world.

All the more reason if possible to train when out of breath and/or under stress.

One saying to remember: "You will only fight like you train."

Training matters! And I know many people who carry frequently but never shoot 200 rounds a year! I encourage them that they really need to either get more training, or stop carrying.

So to the OP post. The most important thing is to know BOTH your own AND your guns limitations. If you choose to carry a 5 or 6 shot revolver, know that you must be close to your target As you may only hit the bad guy with 2 shots. And with shaky hands and a speed loader may be very difficult to accomplish. A magazine fed weapon hopefully decreases your need to have to do a reload. But smaller pocket pistols may only have 6 or 7 shots.

And even though you are in church, it is not a good idea to use the spray and pray method simply because you have 16 rounds in the gun or on your person.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Only problem with such studies is the avg LEO is NOT a gun person & only shoots 1-4x a year for quals, never practice. So I would expect them to miss a lot under stress.
Then take the trained & well practiced LEO or civ ccw, they will miss far less under the same stress. I get this all the time in competition when new LEO guys show up & start making excuses for their poor shooting. "It's diff when the bullets are coming back at you", they say. Yeah, like you will get better when that happens, Uh, no. If you can not do it on a range with only the timer & other eyes as stress, you will fail miserably when it is life or death.
As an instructor told me once, "you will be half as good in the fight as your worst day at the range". So putting that into perspective, if you suck the first cold stage of say an idpa match, you probably died in your gunfight. Training is great, but without the practice to achieve the skill to implement the training, you only have 50% of the problem solved & are relying almost exclusively on luck to save you, jmo.

 

[KSDeputy]

Outstanding !!

 

[Flyingfool]

"you will be half as good in the fight as your worst day at the range."

I think that is the best, simple and accurate synopsis I have heard. And backs up most of what was said above. And that is, carry what you are most confident and accurate with.

 

[Old cop]

Some have cited the LEO hit rate of 20% in a gunfight but having been in one I can give you my perspective. The bad guy I traded shots with was ducking down in the car and belly crawling across a dark parking lot. While not all of my shots hit the mark, the ones that missed hit the windshield where he was seconds before I fired, or the barracade he was behind before I was able to end the fight.

 

[SMSgt]

I find it difficult to accept that one could be considered "irresponsible" because of the firearm they choose to carry.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Another thought: All those US Secret Service agents carrying revolvers from the days of safeguarding President Lincoln during the Civil War to the attempted assassination of President Reagan; were they irresponsible or were they just using the best tools available to them?

In the Army I had no choice; I carried what was issued to me (M1911A-1 .45 caliber pistol). Most of my years as a cop I had little or no choice; the boss said to carry a Colt or S&W revolver, .38 Special or .357 magnum, 4" barrel, blued steel finish. I trained very hard with both, and continue to train and practice now (22 years after retirement), so I know that I am reasonably proficient with either type. I don't feel unarmed or irresponsible when carrying either type.

YMMV

 

[CelticSire]

Two points, if I may...

1. I've never been in a firefight where I had too much ammunition. You mention a semiauto with spare magazine. Why not speed loaders or speed strips with a revolver? I always carry extra ammunition in some form, either spare magazine or speed loader / speed strip. Are the chances slim to none that I'm actually going to need it? Yes. But I didn't survive this long playing the odds. I did it by being prepared, mentally, physically, and logistically, for virtually any realistic scenario.

2. A slow hit is always better than a fast miss. As others have mentioned, several different physiological changes occur during high stress situations. A firefight is a high stress situation. Part of being prepared for those changes is practice, practice, practice, and when you're tired of practicing, practice some more. If you can do so, the next time you shoot at the range, take a jog or brisk walk before shooting. Get your heart rate up and your breathing as well. It's amazing what just a little bit of stress will do to your ability to find and maintain a decent sight picture. Remember what that feels like, practice for it, and then practice for it some more. Yeah, it sucks, especially as we get older. Getting shot sucks worse.

 

[sousana]

One thing I've noticed in 47 years shooting.

1. Old timers, by this I mean experienced, regardless of weapon took time for shot placement.

2. Young bucks with semi's all sprayed and prayed aka russian military doctine style when dealing with a CVN battle group.

I go to the range every lunch hour daily to put 50 rounds through my carry and BUG, and on weekends I fire on average 500 to 750 rounds, with a min of 200 ball and 50 carry rounds through my carry weapons. I see in the lanes next to me all the time young guys shooting semi auto's rapid fire, rounds going all over the target and commenting on how good they shoot. I on the other hand double tap, 2 center mass, 2 head. My targets are clear except for the holes in the center mass area and forehead and these young guys all find that amazing saying " wow man, you must have been shooting your whole life". While this is true, my shot placement is due to rigorous training with both revolvers and semi autos as you never know what you'll end up with. Another thing, I've noticed they never ever train weak hand, as if they'll never get shot in the gun arm. I practice strong side, weak side, and loading same.

 

[Flyingfool]

^^^ you are shooting over 6,000 rounds a year. And shoot daily. Of course with that proficiency and dedication and discipline the results show. And that is to be respected. Like I said I would be willing to bet 75% of the people who frequently carry if not EDC even come close to 500 rounds a year. You are shooting more than that in two weeks!

You are right that they dont have near the accuracy as someone of your caliber. But that is like comparing the free throw percentage of Air Jordan to your average joe six pack playground B-ball player.

Not saying that most people don't train enough. I would agree. But that is the reality.

 

[Old cop]

I survived three deadly force confrontations in 30 years, all w/my issued thirty-eight and it got the job done. Like others have said I had no choice in duty weapon but I did have a choice in how much range time I got in. I did not have access to our department range aside from semi annual qualification but I was able to find an old dump site and shoot there.