No
Many obtain a college diploma without learning anything
Is A College Education Really Necessary?
- Thread starter Kanewpadle
- Start date
No
Many obtain a college diploma without learning anything
31FordA
Member
What I see of some recent college graduates makes me question what these kids got for all the money spent on a degree. Many can't write a coherent letter or report, never mind the atrocious spelling. I think many colleges really are diploma mills, more interested in making a buck than educating the kids.
I had a friend who used to describe these people as being educated beyond their intelligence. He was beyond a doubt the most intelligent person I've ever known. He had a college degree but he didn't put a lot of value on the formal education. He was very handy with math and made a living doing calculations for surveyors and engineers with engineering degrees. He said most everything he knew about math and engineering calculations he learned on his own.
I think that a college education can be very valuable. To the right person with the right focus. Joe or Jane Smiley with no real work ethic and a lazy mind isn't going much farther than assistant manager at McDs with a Liberal Arts degree. But, then they wouldn't go far in the trades either.
But, a person who learns to THINK is going somewhere. Big difference between being able to make it through school and learn a bunch of stuff, pass test and graduate and learning now to really use your brain.
Ask a bunch of recent HS grads this simple question. I have a hole that is 3' wide, 2 yards long and 18" wide. How many cubic yds of concrete will it take to fill it up? Mostly deer in the headlights looks. They were all supposedly taught the facts and basic math needed to solve this, but 90% of them can't put it together and solve this simple problem. Can't think. The college Liberal arts majors won't do any better. But, they can probably tell you Chaucer wrote Canterbury tales, which nobody really needs to know.
Now go ask someone with a real degree like Engineering. Way more apt to get the correct answer. Although I have met a couple engineers who proved that with time and money you can get an engineering degree and still be dumb.
I know one bright young engineer and am sure he is being groomed to become a plant manager for a refinery company. He is educated and smart. He will end up making major money and become a multi millionaire if he wants it.
I also know a kid (under 30) who took a bunch of welding classes in HS. Got a job welding at 17, learned to weld pipe, both stick and tig. Started making in the mid to upper $30s per hour, but after the mandatory 7 years of work in the field he went and paid a few grand for the 2 week class, studied and passed the test to be a Certified Welding Inspector (CWI). Worked for me on his first job as a CWI and was green, but willing and would listen and make the effort. That was 2 years ago. I worked with him on the last job I was on. He was getting $55 an hour, 12 hrs a day, 13 days on, one day off. Thats over 5K a week, not counting the $115 a day per diem. He was only on that job 8 weeks, but made over 40k in wages. He will go out on another job after hunting season is over. Can pick and chose his jobs, work 6 months a year, enjoy life and family the other 6 months and still knock down well over 100K. He got a nice bull moose and a wolf this year. I myself have only worked 2 easy jobs this year for a total of 14 weeks and made over 55K. I don't look for work at all. I am 66, semi retired. I do answer the phone and say yes or no. Mostly NO unless it is sweet. I am not going to work again till next March and that will be about 12 weeks with a couple weeks of 40 hours in the beginning setting up, then roll into 13hr days till the end then maybe one last week of 40 or so shutting it down. I don't really need the job, but, I want a side by side ATV and momma wants an addition and a pond. That will probably be my last hurahh. Unless, its a real short easy one and I want something.
PS. I have 2 brothers that do what I do, we all make way more than the family scholar, who has a masters in fine arts. He works all year long. We pick and chose. I guess we do have an educations, we were just paid well to get them. I do have 3 profession certificates.
But, a person who learns to THINK is going somewhere. Big difference between being able to make it through school and learn a bunch of stuff, pass test and graduate and learning now to really use your brain.
Ask a bunch of recent HS grads this simple question. I have a hole that is 3' wide, 2 yards long and 18" wide. How many cubic yds of concrete will it take to fill it up? Mostly deer in the headlights looks. They were all supposedly taught the facts and basic math needed to solve this, but 90% of them can't put it together and solve this simple problem. Can't think. The college Liberal arts majors won't do any better. But, they can probably tell you Chaucer wrote Canterbury tales, which nobody really needs to know.
Now go ask someone with a real degree like Engineering. Way more apt to get the correct answer. Although I have met a couple engineers who proved that with time and money you can get an engineering degree and still be dumb.
I know one bright young engineer and am sure he is being groomed to become a plant manager for a refinery company. He is educated and smart. He will end up making major money and become a multi millionaire if he wants it.
I also know a kid (under 30) who took a bunch of welding classes in HS. Got a job welding at 17, learned to weld pipe, both stick and tig. Started making in the mid to upper $30s per hour, but after the mandatory 7 years of work in the field he went and paid a few grand for the 2 week class, studied and passed the test to be a Certified Welding Inspector (CWI). Worked for me on his first job as a CWI and was green, but willing and would listen and make the effort. That was 2 years ago. I worked with him on the last job I was on. He was getting $55 an hour, 12 hrs a day, 13 days on, one day off. Thats over 5K a week, not counting the $115 a day per diem. He was only on that job 8 weeks, but made over 40k in wages. He will go out on another job after hunting season is over. Can pick and chose his jobs, work 6 months a year, enjoy life and family the other 6 months and still knock down well over 100K. He got a nice bull moose and a wolf this year. I myself have only worked 2 easy jobs this year for a total of 14 weeks and made over 55K. I don't look for work at all. I am 66, semi retired. I do answer the phone and say yes or no. Mostly NO unless it is sweet. I am not going to work again till next March and that will be about 12 weeks with a couple weeks of 40 hours in the beginning setting up, then roll into 13hr days till the end then maybe one last week of 40 or so shutting it down. I don't really need the job, but, I want a side by side ATV and momma wants an addition and a pond. That will probably be my last hurahh. Unless, its a real short easy one and I want something.
PS. I have 2 brothers that do what I do, we all make way more than the family scholar, who has a masters in fine arts. He works all year long. We pick and chose. I guess we do have an educations, we were just paid well to get them. I do have 3 profession certificates.
Last edited:
wingriderz
Member
Like some here I was a horrible student all threw school. I didn't apply myself till I started volunteering for ambulance squad 1977 threw 1991. E M T. My paid job was auto service 1980 threw2012. Half those years as A S E auto tech other half as a multi auto service mananger. To get a re do I would. Most likely ditched the auto and applied more into a medical job
TomkinsSP
Member
When my children were growing up I always told them that the most important thing they would ever do was LEARN TO THINK. Education is important, but it does not have to come in (and there's really no such thing as) a 'one size fits all box'. IMO if you learn to think, reduce situations /challenges /problems to thier essential elements and find solutions (or a way to mitigate insolvable elements), you will ALWAYS have a place.
As stated previously, this country tries to make one size fit all educationally. It fits some, doesn't fit others. You can become very well educated in a variety of places. Even on your own in a free Public Library.
Another thing I told my children growing up was that you have to have some control over your life and career to be happy. I enjoyed being a cop, but like soldiers we had no control over our jobs. Sucess on the street often resulted in unhappy political apointees who seemed to think they lived in a Fairy Tale Kingdom, they all wanted omelets without broken eggs.
My wife and I have started, built and passed along three businesses since I retired from the PD. (And this week I appear to be working as a Consultant for one of those businesses.) We did this primarily as a way of providing a future for our children. One thing about business is that almost all the lessons learned in one can be translated into another.
If you can solve problems rationally, and you can have some control over your life, you can weather change, and be sucessful. Just my 0.02.
As stated previously, this country tries to make one size fit all educationally. It fits some, doesn't fit others. You can become very well educated in a variety of places. Even on your own in a free Public Library.
Another thing I told my children growing up was that you have to have some control over your life and career to be happy. I enjoyed being a cop, but like soldiers we had no control over our jobs. Sucess on the street often resulted in unhappy political apointees who seemed to think they lived in a Fairy Tale Kingdom, they all wanted omelets without broken eggs.
My wife and I have started, built and passed along three businesses since I retired from the PD. (And this week I appear to be working as a Consultant for one of those businesses.) We did this primarily as a way of providing a future for our children. One thing about business is that almost all the lessons learned in one can be translated into another.
If you can solve problems rationally, and you can have some control over your life, you can weather change, and be sucessful. Just my 0.02.
Last edited:
In my life, I have met as many folks who brag about having a degree as those who brag about not having one.
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eiRGRvE_Wqg[/ame]
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eiRGRvE_Wqg[/ame]
Well put, Rusty.
Apparently much of the push behind this stems from a court decision, Griggs vs Duke Power. The court found that the plaintiff was disadvantaged by the job requirement of an HS degree and a job-related aptitude test. In response, companies decided to just raise the ante, and require a college degree--ANY college degree would do--paid for by the applicant. The prospective employer had nothing to lose by this, and the applicant would presumably at least be trainable. In theory, at least...
Griggs v. Duke Power Co. - Wikipedia.
It all part of the myth that "higher education" is somehow purpose-oriented. Not hardly...but it is damn well profitable to academics everywhere!
I am BIG on ACTUAL education. However, there have been an awful lot of very, very sharp, accomplished people who never set foot on a college campus.
In this, as in many other cases, FOLLOW THE MONEY!
Griggs v. Duke Power Co. - Wikipedia.
It all part of the myth that "higher education" is somehow purpose-oriented. Not hardly...but it is damn well profitable to academics everywhere!
I am BIG on ACTUAL education. However, there have been an awful lot of very, very sharp, accomplished people who never set foot on a college campus.
In this, as in many other cases, FOLLOW THE MONEY!
Is a college education really necessary? I think that that really depends on a few factors.
I taught in public education for about 28 years, and I was far from happy with much of what I saw and abilities demonstrated by the students. I think that the biggest change in need is when our economic indicator switched from the GNP to the GDP. Today, not as many career fields require the expertise of a college education because of the glut of allegedly college educated degree holders in the market.
When we used the GNP, we were a leader in manufacturing, it didn't really matter what we made, we were making it! While manufacturing, we created a need for college educated professionals, but as the jobs disappeared, so did the need for the number of college educated professionals. Today, now that we measure the health of the economy by how much we spend, the demand for quality educated workers is diminishing, therefore the need to provide a quality education has diminished, and colleges became arenas of counterculture indoctrination.
Some professions (medicine, law, education) still have a demand for quality educated professionals, but the demand for business school graduates and liberal arts graduates are declining. In many instances, education has shifted from capitalistic goals and gains to socialism, for those SJWs that fight for the unmotivated.
A quality college education will always be necessary and in demand, but just because a person possesses a degree doesn't mean that they are educated. And the SJWs and others are pushing less qualified students into college because they feel that college is the way to go. College is not for everyone, and a quality trade school education can still trump a college education!
I taught in public education for about 28 years, and I was far from happy with much of what I saw and abilities demonstrated by the students. I think that the biggest change in need is when our economic indicator switched from the GNP to the GDP. Today, not as many career fields require the expertise of a college education because of the glut of allegedly college educated degree holders in the market.
When we used the GNP, we were a leader in manufacturing, it didn't really matter what we made, we were making it! While manufacturing, we created a need for college educated professionals, but as the jobs disappeared, so did the need for the number of college educated professionals. Today, now that we measure the health of the economy by how much we spend, the demand for quality educated workers is diminishing, therefore the need to provide a quality education has diminished, and colleges became arenas of counterculture indoctrination.
Some professions (medicine, law, education) still have a demand for quality educated professionals, but the demand for business school graduates and liberal arts graduates are declining. In many instances, education has shifted from capitalistic goals and gains to socialism, for those SJWs that fight for the unmotivated.
A quality college education will always be necessary and in demand, but just because a person possesses a degree doesn't mean that they are educated. And the SJWs and others are pushing less qualified students into college because they feel that college is the way to go. College is not for everyone, and a quality trade school education can still trump a college education!
Is a college education necessary?
It's done wonders for my wife's self esteem.
However, her $70K in student loans plus the fact that she can't land a job for more than $30K a year with it tends to depress her. (see my pop's rule of thumb in post #49 above)
I'm pushing my kids hard to exceed expectations in high school in order to win scholarships to the colleges of their choice. In the end, I think they will be thankful they worked to contribute a good portion of their college expenses.
It's done wonders for my wife's self esteem.
However, her $70K in student loans plus the fact that she can't land a job for more than $30K a year with it tends to depress her. (see my pop's rule of thumb in post #49 above)
I'm pushing my kids hard to exceed expectations in high school in order to win scholarships to the colleges of their choice. In the end, I think they will be thankful they worked to contribute a good portion of their college expenses.
Judging from the responses, it looks like a good many of the posts are from people who entered their career and have since retired. Back then it probably wasn't necessary. Now it is. Everything is done on line, and you have to get past the filter before an HR person even sees your resume. If the resume doesn't include higher education, forget it.
Is it justified? In a lot of cases, probably not. In my career (engineering) it is.
I do think one of the primary reasons school is so expensive now is the nearly endless student loans. Inflation works there just as everyplace else. The market has been flooded with money, so the price increases to soak it all up.
Is it justified? In a lot of cases, probably not. In my career (engineering) it is.
I do think one of the primary reasons school is so expensive now is the nearly endless student loans. Inflation works there just as everyplace else. The market has been flooded with money, so the price increases to soak it all up.
I was a very average high school student and went to college and studied engineering technology. I was poor at math and was an immature party animal so I went on academic probation 3 times and just thought I was an unintelligent person and wondered if I would ever graduate. I was then trying really hard and buried in the books for 2 years and something finally clicked in my brain and math became easy! The really smart students sometimes even asked me for help and all of the sudden I graduated and got a well paying career job with a company car. I had wanted to graduate so bad, but after I left school I really missed it, so I turned in my 2 week notice and went back for a Masters in Business Administration. The problem was, my GPA was so low I couldn't get accepted into any MBA program but at least my confidence was now pretty high. I asked for an appointment with the Dean of the MBA school and the admissions clerk told me it wouldn't do any good and I told him to make the appointment anyway. I talked to the Dean for an hour selling myself, and he said there was just no way I could get in but I was so persistent he simply lied about my GPA on the paperwork. He said "you better make at least a 3.0 this semester or you're out forever,...now get out of my office"! I made a 3.8 the first semester and went back and thanked him and we became friends and sometimes he would call me and take me out to Wendys for lunch. So, the main thing college accomplished for me was to give me confidence in my own intelligence and ability and that was something I never had.
Last edited:
My son made more money his first full year of work after college than I made in any single year in my whole life. He has a Bachelor's in Chemistry. He does sales for a national consulting firm. He worked his way up from being an on-the-road salesman to having an office at the company headquarters. At 25 years of age, he is the sales manager above all of the sales people in the Southeastern United States. His degree is in no way related to what he does.
The scam is some of these Liberal Arts degrees. They amount
to degrees in Life Experiences, in other words you know how
to breathe. Goggle Liberal Arts and look at the description.
I have worked places where these type are hired in because
they have a college degree in nothing that is related to the job.
to degrees in Life Experiences, in other words you know how
to breathe. Goggle Liberal Arts and look at the description.
I have worked places where these type are hired in because
they have a college degree in nothing that is related to the job.
KKECK5
Member
I understand you need a Masters Degree to serve coffee at Starbucks...
Lots of interesting personal stories here. I've enjoyed them far more than the philosophical ideologies that answer the OP's question.
When I retired from the 'Force I went back to school. Most of my peers got a job (second career), but I used the GI Bill to get a BA in journalism with a minor in English. After I established myself as an overachiever in my first year of school I began to apply for scholarships -- one was specifically for non-traditional students (at age 48 I certainly qualified).
For my remaining time at the University of Wyoming I enjoyed a full-ride scholarship (tuition and books) thanks to the generosity of a Wyoming newspaper family. In my senior year the school's student publications board hired me for a paid internship -- both semesters -- as the editor of the university's literary and arts magazine, the Owen Wister Review. What a hoot. The Associated Collegiate Press selected my 2005 edition of the magazine as one of its top ten collegiate magazines that year.
I recently completed a two-year project editing 52 contributors' stories for a 280-page book to celebrate my tiny town's 150th anniversary. Since its printing I've been offered two editing jobs and a locally noted wildlife biologist and naturalist has agreed to let me write his biography.
My grandmother used to say: "An education is the only thing in the world you can possess that nobody can take away from you."
When I retired from the 'Force I went back to school. Most of my peers got a job (second career), but I used the GI Bill to get a BA in journalism with a minor in English. After I established myself as an overachiever in my first year of school I began to apply for scholarships -- one was specifically for non-traditional students (at age 48 I certainly qualified).
For my remaining time at the University of Wyoming I enjoyed a full-ride scholarship (tuition and books) thanks to the generosity of a Wyoming newspaper family. In my senior year the school's student publications board hired me for a paid internship -- both semesters -- as the editor of the university's literary and arts magazine, the Owen Wister Review. What a hoot. The Associated Collegiate Press selected my 2005 edition of the magazine as one of its top ten collegiate magazines that year.
I recently completed a two-year project editing 52 contributors' stories for a 280-page book to celebrate my tiny town's 150th anniversary. Since its printing I've been offered two editing jobs and a locally noted wildlife biologist and naturalist has agreed to let me write his biography.
My grandmother used to say: "An education is the only thing in the world you can possess that nobody can take away from you."
HOUSTON RICK
Member
A college degree is a broad term. An accounting degree is a good background for almost anything, and will keep you employed. A degree in art history or Latvian literature not so much. Back the accounting degree up with a CPA, a Masters in Taxation and a law degree, pass the bar exam, and there will be as much work as you can take, a theater degree, not so much.
