Is my 3 lb full sized semi auto pistol obsolete?

Not even remotely.

Also, metal framed guns seem to be becoming trendy again, as evidenced by the fact that various firearms manufacturers are now offering aluminum or even steel framed versions of their polymer pistols, as well as all-new guns with metal frames, so I presume it won't be long until all the cool kids are suddenly singing the praises of metal over plastic.

Personally, I've never minded carrying a gun with a bit of heft, as I find the weight somewhat reassuring in an odd sort of way as if it's somehow more substantial.
 
Just because I no longer carry my full sized 1911 45 acp concealed every day ... I got old and now carry a S&W J-Frame 38 special AirWeight ,
the 2" inch bbl and lighter weight is just easier for me now ...
I'm not going to call the 1911 obsolete , it sits next to me on the desk , waiting and ready to ... do whatever needs to be done .
Don't call it obsolete ... it ain't !
Gary
 
It may not be "state of the art" but it is not obsolete. Just think of S & W revolvers, or military surplus rifles. They can still do what they were designed for, but newer designs may be better for their intended function. I could argue that your P226 is much better for home defense and range sessions than the P365.
 
Those two pistols are for different roles. A micro 9mm is acceptable to those who hold the position that any 9mm and any barrel length is acceptable for self-defense. And it is, if at close range and if you have the skills. "3 shots, 3 yards, 3 seconds!" as they say.

The full-size sidearm, comes from a different fighting philosophy. The weapon is obsolete only if that philosophy has been proved in error.

My carry sidearm has an alloy frame. A stainless steel frame or any too heavy pistol is said to cause one to not carry it. And it does, if I think that. The late 18DAI, whom I miss greatly around here, used to say, "Maybe they should just lift weights." I just carry it anyway and it ain't heavy no more. Ya know?
 
The 3# pistol is not obsolete, but it may not be best suited as an EDC firearm. That has to be an individual decision.

Between LE on-duty and off, and now retirement, I have carried since '64. In this period I have carried many different revolvers and pistols. There has always been a dichotomy between power/capacity/weight/shootability vs portability/comfort/concealability.

During my career we were required to respond, even off duty, regardless of jurisdiction, in any situation requiring law enforcement intervention. That meant CCW, even though that was not spelled out. What it did accomplish was to force each of us to resolve the various disparate carry issues so that we would in fact be armed.

The challenge is and has been to find a suitable compromise. Fortunately in today's market there are more choices than there have ever been before.

I find any recommendation to just lift weights to be a useless platitude. People who don't lift weights or work out are not going to start now, just to be able to carry a heavy or heavier handgun.

My entire adult life I have lifted weights. At my peak I could bench press over 400#. Even at my advanced age, I still work out, although now with a weight machine rather than Olympic weights. Through all of this, regardless of how much I could lift, I was always seeking that elusive ideal combination of firepower and ergonomics.

Since I was a power lifter, I have had many people approach me who wanted to start weight programs. The first thing I would tell them was that unless they were absolutely determined to stick with it, don't even start. Very few had that determination.

For me, since around 2000, the ideal compromise in one handgun has been the Glock 26.

Note: This is not a plug for Glock. I am one individual relating my preference based on my experience for the purpose of illustrating an example.

For me the Glock gives me the best compromise I have found between power, capacity, shootability, reliability, comfort and concealment.

That does not mean it is the ideal compromise for anyone else. Each of us needs to make that determination on their own.

If someone has a 3# pistol that they are willing to carry and properly conceal, then for that individual it is not obsolete. But if one makes that decision, then one also needs to commit to not finding excuses to not carry. This is a long-term decision. One may start with the best of intentions, but as the novelty of CCW wears off, and the practicalities of everyday life take precedence, that commitment may be sorely tested.

This discussion is one I initiated in every Calif state mandated CCW course I taught, because everyone will confront this issue and to resolve it. I always concluded by citing the parachute rule: 'If once you need it, and you don't have it, you probably won't ever need it again'.
 
Last edited:
I would never consider any high-quality all-steel pistol to be "obsolete"...but as others have noted, it's also not necessarily better for concealed-carry than a smaller, lighter handgun.

How many citizen self-defense situations in the USA require firing more than a few rounds? (For that matter, how many police-involved shootings require reloading?) That's why something like a P365 is so attractive...it's small and light, and carries about three times as much ammunition as you are likely to need in a real-world scenario.

But that doesn't mean your 226 is obsolete or no longer suited for concealed carry.
 
Before New Jersey carry permit was even a remote possibility, I acquired an all stainless stainless Sig P226 that weighs just over 3 lbs fully loaded. It quickly became my favorite range gun and the gun I would rely on at home if the need should arise.

But know New Jersey has carry permits and I practice with a pocket sized P365, carry it often and gave it at the ready at home. Seems like the P226 is obsolete.

Nope. I still carry my full size government model all the time.

Full size guns will never be obsolete because they usually can be shot much better than the tiny, tic-tac sized guns that people think they need today.
 
Full size guns will never be obsolete because they usually can be shot much better than the tiny, tic-tac sized guns that people think they need today.[/QUOTE]

I agree that full size guns are not obsolete. But I do not agree that there is only a choice between full size handguns and "tiny. tic-tac sized guns...." with no middle ground. Your post makes no such allowance.

In my post I stated: ".....in today's market there are more choices than there ever have been before".

Maybe I shot too high in my initial post. So I will spell it out. While full size handguns and "tiny, tic-tac sized guns" are polar opposites, there is a wide range of sizes and weights that will do the job. I do not see it as 'either or'.

For a time in my LE career, I was issued a S&W compact second generation 9mm pistol, the predecessor to the third gen 6906. This pistol had been returned by the courts to our department for our use. It could be issued, but never transferred. I gave it a test and found that the double stack grip frame fit my large hand better than any other handgun I had ever handled. The action was terrible though. I had my local gunsmith do an action job on it, and he did a masterful job.

We were in a transition phase between revolvers and pistols. Our department issue revolvers were 4" 686 for duty, 2 1/2" 66 for command or plain clothes. Many of our troops were carrying personally owned full size pistols for duty. There was a wide range authorized as long as they fired 9mm, .40cal or .45 cal. Our qualification course of fire was a modified PPC course with a maximum range of 25 yards.

In my hands that small S&W was superlative. I had long been a good shooter, one of the top guns in the department. But with that small 3 1/2" barreled pistol I shot better than I did with my issue 686. In fact I outshot everyone, regardless of what they were carrying (including full size pistols). I became top gun in the department from then until I retired. The reason was the fit of that pistol to my hand, and that trumped size and weight. In deadly force situations, shot placement takes precedence over everything else. That is how assailants are stopped. That pistol would place the shots.

When it came time to return the pistol, because our department went to Glocks for issue, I went and bought the then-current 6906 and had the same gunsmith do the same action job.

My point, after this considerable digression, is this pistol, at approx 26.5 oz unloaded and overall 7" length fell somewhere in that wide range to which I was referring above.

As I said, the choice is not 'either or' and any such representation is inaccurate.
 
Last edited:
If you can get by with six rounds
the 686 4" .357 comes in at just 42 oz.

However 14 or more ronds is also nice to have.

Heads or Tails ?
 
The 3# pistol is not obsolete, but it may not be best suited as an EDC firearm. That has to be an individual decision...(snip)...I find any recommendation to just lift weights to be a useless platitude. People who don't lift weights or work out are not going to start now, just to be able to carry a heavy or heavier handgun.
Thanks for your contribution here. I really appreciate your longer posts. It is some extra work but I hope you know your time is not unappreciated. 18DAI (fallen comrade) has always been my favorite but you are one too!

You nailed it about commitment. I would apply that idea to mine of fighting philosophy. That is how I understood 18DAI's comment. We are installing lighter triggers on lighter pistols and shooting lighter recoiling rounds without considering that we could get stronger. You are right that most people do NOT do anything to get stronger. Motivation and character explain why they quit or why they continue at the gym.

18DAI was told by his doctor that he could not keep shooting thousands of 45 acp rounds every week. He had serious repetitive motion inflammation issues. Doc approved use of 9mm in his classes and lessons. Mr. "Better be a 45" himself started carrying a model 3913! He liked the all-steel 3906 but hardly ever carried it.

Bill Wilson, founder of Wilson Combat was shooting a qual course with Ken Hackathorn over his left shoulder with the timer. Hackathorn was talking to the camera while Wilson was looking at the target being ready to draw. Hackathorn then asked him, "OK Bill, you gotta plan?" What a great question! This question is the answer to the question in the OP.
 
Agree with RetCapt....... my Goldielocks guns have been the 3913 and 6906s for more than 30 years.......not to big for Concealed Carry not so small that they/I can still perform out to 25yds+

Other favorites are the Beretta 92 Compact now at 15+1 or the 92 Compact Type M a single stack version 8+1

Sig 245 .45 compact version of the 220
 
Last edited:
There is value in a pistol way beyond carryability. My primary interest is target shooting. I'm certainly not going to get rid of a pistol simply because it is too big or heavy to carry.
 
Before New Jersey carry permit was even a remote possibility, I acquired an all stainless stainless Sig P226 that weighs just over 3 lbs fully loaded. It quickly became my favorite range gun and the gun I would rely on at home if the need should arise.

But know New Jersey has carry permits and I practice with a pocket sized P365, carry it often and gave it at the ready at home. Seems like the P226 is obsolete.

No, it is not. It better gun than P 365.
 
Depends?

Lately since the weather has turned cold, I have been carrying my HK P8A1 with the magwell. It's a beast of a gun, but it gives me cocked and locked with 19 rounds. I'm actually changing it up this week, I'm switching to a CZ P09 to try. It's still full size but a little lighter and allows me to carry cocked and locked.
 
After waiting far to long, I found and bought a 226 Legion... 9mm. That thing is a shooting machine! Love my revolvers. But the first time I ever took that Legion to the range ... with plain ball ammo ... it kept everything in the X/10 ring of a B-27 ... minus three rounds leaked out at 6 o'clock into the 9 ring. Now, a few years down the road, it continues to be unfailingly accurate, reliable, close to "perfection!" Actually, it has never failed to do anything except shoot regardless of what grade of ammo was used. Your SS 226 is a smidgen heavier. So what? Shoot the hound of out it. For carry, I'd find a nice 225 or the Glock Gen. 5 series. Shoot it for familiarity, etc. But do keep that Sig. You'll never see the day when you will regret buying it. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.
 
Carried honkin' big revolvers then auto loaders for many years on the job. But as soon as I went off duty it was a J frame. Promoted and transferred to planning and training the 5 shot became my all day office gun.

As an academy FA instructor I would go back to the big patrol pistol for the recruit training. I couldn't wait to put that pig iron back in the truck and put on the J frame after a range session.

This seemed to be a reoccurring theme among those who carry for a living. Really, the old timers tend to have strong side hip pain from a overloaded duty belt. Our tendency is to carry small. As to tic-tac guns I'm now 74 and have been carrying J frames for 50 years. I shoot my LEOSA qualifications regularly with never less than a 95 percentile.

I shoot regularly, twice a week but that's smallbore rifle. Once a month I shoot with a bunch of geezer LEO's. All but two carry small. Those two don't carry much at all. It comes down to practice and training and what your comfortable with. Range guns and carry guns are two different weapons.
 
Back
Top