Is Snowden a traitor or a public servant?

[Hillbilly77]

Seems like back in the 1860's some tall, famous guy gave this address somewhere in Pennsylvania.
He concluded his speech with these words:

...government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Too many people seem to have lost sight of what the government is there for.

I say good for him for exposing their antics.

 

[Hillbilly77]

...break the law to protect the constitution.

Isn't that like saying "jumbo shrimp"?

 

[cddanjr]

I have a lot of respect for someone who sticks his neck out when he feels the greater good of the country is beind compromised. Whether it turns out good or bad, he took a stand.

There is much more to be understood, but will we get the HONEST truth? we shall see.

Chuck

 

[RonJ]

Most of us, with a grain of common sense, knew it was happening anyway. With fingers firmly crossed, I hope the targets hadn't that grain of sense.

 

[Long Barrel]

Stuff to think about

Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]."

Whether Snowden did this or not remains to be determined in court. The fact that he fled the USA and is very near the PRC makes me uncertain of his motivation no matter what he says.

But all that aside, suppose, lets just say, that Iran was able to borrow three or four kilos of plutonium from its old buddy North Korea, cobble together a VW-size fission device and put it on a container cargo ship going to New York. All they have to do is get the boat in the harbor and set the jihad-o-nuke off still on the boat. There went NYC and most of New England would be radioactive for many years. No more Christmases at Gramma's house in Connecticut until the year 2645.

If that happened and you knew that we could data-mine the communications metadata and didn't do it, what would you think of Snowden then?

 

[BobC357]

I have assummed that the government has been spying like this for decades. They probably know more about you than you do yourself! Unfortunately, with our corrupt government, nothing surprises me any more.

Yes, I know the NSA is reading this, tracking it, cataloging it, backing it up and spending millions of dollars on this post. Your tax dollars at work

 

[dswancutt]

Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]."

Whether Snowden did this or not remains to be determined in court. The fact that he fled the USA and is very near the PRC makes me uncertain of his motivation no matter what he says.

But all that aside, suppose, lets just say, that Iran was able to borrow three or four kilos of plutonium from its old buddy North Korea, cobble together a VW-size fission device and put it on a container cargo ship going to New York. All they have to do is get the boat in the harbor and set the jihad-o-nuke off still on the boat. There went NYC and most of New England would be radioactive for many years. No more Christmases at Gramma's house in Connecticut until the year 2645.

If that happened and you knew that we could data-mine the communications metadata and didn't do it, what would you think of Snowden then?

Not doing this to be argumentative, but all this surveillance should have prevented what happened in Boston. the doomsday theory is what we are always feed by the politicians. Just give us a little bit of your liberty and we promise you will be safe.

 

[radar1972]

I don't think Snowden damaged national security since he did not compromise any delicate information. He just let us, the American public, know what our government (it belongs to us) is now capable of and in all likelihood doing. I feel that he fulfilled his oath to protect the Constitution by whistleblowing.

 

[Harrison]

It depends on whose ox is gored. Does anyone recall the name Daniel Ellsberg and The Pentagon Papers. This was from the late Vietnam Era. The classified information that Mr. Ellsberg leaked to the NY Times was far more sensitive than anything Snoden has released. Yet Mr. Ellsberg was claimed a national hero by a certain political party that was in opposition to a president with a (R) after his name. Our recent SecDefense released classified information to Hollywood regarding the SEALs and the raid on OBL. No one is suggesting he is a traitor. The current administration is upset that Snoden released classified information about possible illegal wholesale spying on Americans unrelated to terrorism. The fact that we spy on our enemies is no secret.

 

[ladder13]

I'm torn that someone has to break the law to protect the constitution.

If the law is unconstitutional I have no problem.

 

[sqhead]

Mixed thoughts on this one.

When I was young, I grew up idolizing the guys that beat the Japanese and the Nazis. It was a life and death fight with no holds barred, winner take all. It shaped my idea of what my government was all about. Then came Vietnam...joined the Marine Corps a semester before I graduated from college and showed up at Quantico a month after graduation, ready to be turned into a second lieutenant and fight for the oppressed people of Vietnam.

It was in Vietnam that I began to get the feeling that my government wasn't as knowledgeable and forthright as I thought. We were getting shot up every day and didn't seem to be accomplishing anything but as a good Marine, I carried on and did my duty. I sent back a lot of dead Marines on medevacs and to this day, feel their lives were thrown away. Iraq came and went. No WMDs, just more dead and disfigured Marines coming home.

I don't really trust our government anymore. I wish I could but I fell off the "Turnip Truck" in the Ashau Valley in 1969 when I lost almost a squad in 10 minutes. I think the American people should know this is going on and how vast it is. Once the camel gets his nose under the tent, it will pull it down and with the ability we have to collect and correlate data on people, the time will come when it will be used against us. All it will take will be the right people in the right places pushing the right buttons.

I've said my piece...wish everything was as black and white as it seemed when I was 22 and ready to save the world.

good post,smart post,i agree with you all the way.

 

[Hellcat]

The administration overstepped. The original intent and spirit of this act has exploded. I can't believe folks that have a issue with the out of control IRS lately would think everything is fine with this data collection. Jeez we know the administration would not do anything to hurt its conservative citizens would it? Oh well, at least our SSN#'s are safe and secure.

 

[NZshooter]

I'm surprised that people are surprised at the scope of NSA domestic activities. I've thought for a long time that it was safe to assume that they were snooping on us to this degree. Too bad we can't go back to a time when "The Siege" and "Enemy of the State" were just movies

 

[venomballistics]

.

Snowden is jest a pawn in all of this....I'd say we ain't heard nothing yet!

There couldn't possibly be a dossier on everyone....Could there?


.

of course we aint heard nothin ... but they have heard everything

I seem to recall a project by microsoft called the tera server ... we see it today as google maps. At the time it raised a bit of stink as the concept of terabytes of storage in one place was deemed capable of holding info on everyone.
Today we can all buy drives into the terabyte range as its yesterdays tech.
Since it IS possible to store such a database .. the database can exist ... the real question is does it exist?

 

[pharmer]

Not doing this to be argumentative, but all this surveillance should have prevented what happened in Boston.

The phone chatter and TRIPS TO DAGESTAN should have been a clue. PC says "We mustn't profile radical muslim converts that we are warned of by the Soviets' concerns." Nothing to see here, nothing to see at all. Move along. Joe

 

[jaykellogg]

Is Snowden a traitor or a public servant?

Technically he is both (IMHO). For what he has done he could go to prison for a long time. I am not 100% sure of his reasons for doing this, but I am inclined to believe he is trying to wake up the citizens of the USA to what their government is doing.

Manning, I won't say what I think about him.

Regarding the government spying without a warrant in the USA, I am against it. I am not willing to give up constitutional protections for the illusion of security. The rules are the rules, short circuiting them is laziness. Just how many of your constitutional protections are you willing to surrender for the illusion of security?

This episode hasn't played out yet. Snowden may not be allowed to leave China.

 

[Onomea]

While I have not made up my mind about Rand Paul in general, I think he has this one right:

Rand Paul On NSA Spying: 'I'm Going To Challenge This At The Supreme Court' - Fox News 6/9/2013 - YouTube

(Cut and paste the link if it won't "click")

 

[silentflyer]

Manning and Snowden both should both get a speedy and fair trial, and if gulity be sentenced to prison, nothing fancy like one of the Super-Max deals, just any old prison, and turn them lose in the general prison population. Even hardend criminals don't have much use for people who sell out the USA. Oh by the way find a similar place for Jane Fonda..and the nut jobs that do the mass killings, and the Cleveland child rapist.

 

[fdw]

I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. More to follow.... I mean I've always felt like something like this was possible and most likely probable..

The potential for misuse here is enormous... likely and probable.

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely...

like I say, more to come folks.... you ain't seen nothing yet

 

[cddanjr]

Manning and Snowden both should both get a speedy and fair trial, and if gulity be sentenced to prison, nothing fancy like one of the Super-Max deals, just any old prison, and turn them lose in the general prison population. Even hardend criminals don't have much use for people who sell out the USA. Oh by the way find a similar place for Jane Fonda..and the nut jobs that do the mass killings, and the Cleveland child rapist.

I dont think he sold out the USA, unless you consider the politicians and higher ups the USA. He is sharing what he knows about what is going on.

And it seems innocent til proven guilty is thrown by the wayside by calling him a Traitor with the minimal information that is out.

Chuck