Is Snowden a traitor or a public servant?

[dswancutt]

Which oath? The one's that I swore both as an officer in the USN, and as a sworn LEO were and are to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic". Illegal orders are unlawful orders.

I don't know what part of the Fourth Amendment that you don't get, but being secure in your person, papers, and property means that unless .gov gets a warrant from a judge, they have no right to intercept, record, or peruse anything that I write or say where I have a reasonable expectation of privacy. That means phone cons, e mails, credit card purchases, etc., etc.

Snowden is a hero in my book, because he actually stood up and did something effective about unlawful activity in a US .gov agency. The outrage that I feel IRT the NSA and all of its nefarious programs is equally as great as the outrage that I feel over Fast and Furious, and numerous other unpunished infractions of the law by our government. Either we are ALL subject to the law, or none of us are, and if you want to see this country go downhill in quicker fashion than it already is, then let those in the government keep breaking laws which the rest of us are expected to follow, and chaos will result.

Think very hard about what is written in plain language in our founding documents before you condemn someone for standing up for them.

You sir, have hit the nail squarely on the head. And with your military and police service, it carries more weight than if someone like me said it. Tyrannical governments always use "public security or safely" to justify their acts.
I ask this to those who say "I don't have anything to hide". What would be your reaction if you came home and the police/government where going through your house, your home videos, pictures, documents, everything, no warrant, no probable cause and gave you the explanation of "national security" or "just because we can". And on top all that, they are copying all of it. Folks, that is what they are doing.
That little thing called the Constitution that many of you swore to uphold and protect has a amendment in it that specifically says they (the government) cannot do that without probable cause.

 

[fdw]

I'll add another 2 cents. Who would have though this administration would have abused the power of the IRS?

Think about that when you think this is all about terrorism

 

[DeathGrip]

What am I missing?

I haven't heard him say anything that I didn't know already.

 

[Badquaker]

Do you think the government has curtailed any of its data mining activities?
Do you think Snowden has put anyone in danger with his release?
Has Snowden provided the name a single individual involved?

It seems that he has confirmed that the government has been raiding the cookie jar, without revealing what was in the jar.

The government seems to be upset for being caught.

 

[fdw]

What am I missing?

I haven't heard him say anything that I didn't know already.

True, but I'm willing to bet that most of America had no idea "our government" could possibly be doing something like this.

And even if they do, they somehow have this idealistic nature that something like this just couldn't be abused...

IMO, if it can be abused, it will be abused.

Now the terrorists, I'm sure have been well aware of this for years.

 

[keith44spl]

.

To shine a light on tyranny....Les they be called traitor....From the darkness?


.

 

[chicagoslim]

Although I don't like what Snowden did, or how he did it, I think that it is good for the American public to see what it's going on. We lost a lot of out rights, with the Patriot Act. Now, we have an administration that is willing to use it's full might, for political reasons.

Having retired from a communications company with government contracts, I found that over 30% of my fellow retires, no longer own a computer or cellphone.

 

[georgepittenger]

Is his future a staged suicide ? Oh how sad ..... will be the tone .

I wonder in the powers that be really want him captured and brought to trial ? Then he has a platform . And more on-going exposure and embarrassment for them .

A LOT of money and power at stake here .

Remember - he was a sub-contractor , not active military . He and others like him have a very different perspective whether we like it or not . It's a job .


George

 

[wbraswell]

I don't see Snowden as a traitor, I see the NSA, and their masters, as....ummmm less than constitutionally patriotic.

 

[Bill Bates]

The information exposed by Snowden goes under the "Like Duh" type of information.

Maybe 10 years ago a section of DARPA called the "Office of Information Awareness" was leaked. With a logo of the all seeing eye and the motto of "scientia est potentia – knowledge is power" what do you think the government was doing.

They have been monitoring all electronic traffic, storing it and using super computers to search for key words for years. Like I said the NSA news is a big "like Duh".

Oh hi NSA guys, can you let me know when the new Utah facility starts hiring.

 

[venomballistics]

I just got an email from one of my electronics parts suppliers about an upcoming seminar.
Key takes ...
"
Hear the latest supply and demand forecasts for the major video surveillance market segments
Learn about the latest technology trends, including wireless infrastructure challenges, and camera and sensor technologies
Understand the challenges of managing big data and cloud-based data management
Gain insight into the business strategies of leading OEMs, including Chinese companies, and the opportunities in emerging markets
"

Don't see much in this that relates to consumer goods ... who's they buyer?

 

[BearBio]

Fourth Amendment.

Our forefathers saw this coming and wrote a law to protect us.

Problem is.... Most of the leaders think they are above the law and know better than us.


.

And our forefathers were considered traitors. Ben Franklin (a Freemason) stated" Now, we must all hang together for if not, we shall certainly hang separately"

As a Freemason and, therefore, as sworn brother to many of those very founding fathers, I have sworn not to reveal any secrets of my brothers except those that are criminal. The 4th was written to protect the people of the US against OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, if necessary! Looks like he revealed a threat to us, the People. It is apparent, from many of their personal writings, that they considered our own government to have the potential to be as big an enemy as foreign bodies are.

 

[venomballistics]

The information exposed by Snowden goes under the "Like Duh" type of information.

Maybe 10 years ago a section of DARPA called the "Office of Information Awareness" was leaked. With a logo of the all seeing eye and the motto of "scientia est potentia – knowledge is power" what do you think the government was doing.

They have been monitoring all electronic traffic, storing it and using super computers to search for key words for years. Like I said the NSA news is a big "like Duh".

Oh hi NSA guys, can you let me know when the new Utah facility starts hiring.

I'm thinking a position just opened up not long ago

 

[feralmerril]

I dont feel well enough informed to give a hard opinion yet but my first impressions are first, I have never belived in stings but this isnt exactly a sting. Forever we have had undercover types gathering info and we have come to expect it. This is all new to most of us. Maybe electronic and computer geeks have been aware of the possibilitys forever. I just have never gave it thought before.
I believe the biggest factor here is who is in power that will use it. At the exact time this has become public we have the other scandels of the IRS abuseing their power, the AG abuseing his power in fast and furious, Rice and Hillary abuseing their power and even getting promoted. It go`s above that but I will quit.
This is another tool and weapon in the goverments arsenal and like all tools and weapons they can be used for good or bad.
Even if our present power would be trustworthy whats to stop the next or one farther down the line from being the opposite? We are setting up more tools, devices and weapons for the future to use at their option.
Right now my biggest question that I havent heard brought up yet is the fact that now we have another tool, why cant every person that is sitting in jail that believes they are innocent have his lawyer get into recorded conversations that they might think may prove them innocent? Along with that, how about every procicuter potentaly getting court orders to get recorded conversations that might prove their case guilty? This hasnt been discussed yet but wouldnt that alone gridlock the world?
This has got to be huge and unending in scope!

 

[dswancutt]

I'm thinking a position just opened up not long ago

He was working for a private contractor in Hawaii, reportedly pulling down $220,000/year.

Oh, and as a side note, this was his girlfriend.

Is This the Acrobat Girlfriend NSA Whistleblower Edward Snowden Left Behind? | TheBlaze.com

 

[mstuhr]

Things may have changed?

I operated krypto gear in the USASA in the 70's. That required a top secret security clearance. I don't care if I liked what I heard while in a communication center in Germany or not, I would never break the oath. Not even today. To say he is anything but a criminal is to say that if you think you're right, even if it is against the law and you break that law, then, hey, maybe you're a hero. Not so in my mind, but the world and society are changing and so are the values people hold, so there will be many opinions about this topic. He knew it was wrong, or he would have stayed around to face the consequences. I think he is in deep trouble.
Peace,
gordon

Howdy G.T.
I have mixed emotions about this whole thing.
What if snowden was told the way things were and took his oath and when he was "let in" and looked around things were not like he was told?
What if he found things so different and unsupportable than he was led to believe that he ended up in a moral dilemma.
They did lie to us about it.
I doubt we ever get the real story, but I bet there is more to it than what we will hear about Snowden.
I fully expect him to be vilified by both parties. I just hope he deserves it. Better yet, I hope he gets what he deserves, whatever that is.
Thanks
Mike

 

[venomballistics]

He was working for a private contractor in Hawaii, reportedly pulling down $220,000/year.

Oh, and as a side note, this was his girlfriend.

Is This the Acrobat Girlfriend NSA Whistleblower Edward Snowden Left Behind? | TheBlaze.com

same article states NSA was on her doorstep before the leak was known due to not showing up for work......
Private contractors .... is that what they are calling them lately

 

[PA Reb]

Mixed thoughts on this one.

When I was young, I grew up idolizing the guys that beat the Japanese and the Nazis. It was a life and death fight with no holds barred, winner take all. It shaped my idea of what my government was all about. Then came Vietnam...joined the Marine Corps a semester before I graduated from college and showed up at Quantico a month after graduation, ready to be turned into a second lieutenant and fight for the oppressed people of Vietnam.

It was in Vietnam that I began to get the feeling that my government wasn't as knowledgeable and forthright as I thought. We were getting shot up every day and didn't seem to be accomplishing anything but as a good Marine, I carried on and did my duty. I sent back a lot of dead Marines on medevacs and to this day, feel their lives were thrown away. Iraq came and went. No WMDs, just more dead and disfigured Marines coming home.

I don't really trust our government anymore. I wish I could but I fell off the "Turnip Truck" in the Ashau Valley in 1969 when I lost almost a squad in 10 minutes. I think the American people should know this is going on and how vast it is. Once the camel gets his nose under the tent, it will pull it down and with the ability we have to collect and correlate data on people, the time will come when it will be used against us. All it will take will be the right people in the right places pushing the right buttons.

I've said my piece...wish everything was as black and white as it seemed when I was 22 and ready to save the world.

It is my belief that the final curtain is far from being closed on this subject and I'll wait until the full truth is known before casting any personal judgement on Mr. Snowden. I do belive however that "HankG" has already done a fine job posting my sentiments in his well written statement above especially where I took the liberty of adding bolded letters to his quote. Very well said sir and I agree with you completely!

For anyone that might want the perspective of the well respected and fair Karl Rove, here's a good video of his thoughts on the matter > Karl Rove ?On the Record? « Gretawire

 

[arjay]

First they came for the socialists,and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me,and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemoller-survived 7 years in nazi camps.

 

[BearBio]

I'll go here. Classified information is what it says. Any release of classified information can jeopardize the life of your or my son serving our Country in combat.

Snowden is a traitor. That is why that he is hiding in Hong Kong. If he really thinks that he is a "public servant" [sic], he would present himself to the American system of justice.

The American Courts of Law always lean against any reasonable and fair judgment when basic facts are presented to intelligent people. This dude is a traitor and should be treated as such.

Don't forget that the above could have applied to the First Congress and the signers of the Declaration, also. They certainly were considered traitors. In my Con-Law course (and a couple of Poli-Sci courses, also), we were taught that the CONSTITUTION was the Supreme Law of the Land. Seems the Government violated the Constitution.