Is Snowden a traitor or a public servant?

[bushmaster1313]

Traitor.

But I do not think that anything he let out so far was really a secret. For a long time I have assumed (and hoped) that the NSA and other patriotic organizations we don't even know about have been snooping the electronic highway for threats to our nation.

All Snowden did was to stir a hornet's nest that will make it harder for our cyber geeks to do their job.

 

[jaykellogg]

Just think about this. After WWII German leaders were put on trial and some died. Their defense, "I was just following orders". In this case the USA and our allies took the position that these leaders (some anyway) should have refused to follow orders.

I am not saying what some German leaders did was on a par with what was done here.

 

[Kanewpadle]

We of course don't know all there is know about this yet but from what we do know I say GOOD FOR HIM!

We need more good people to stand up and say "THAT'S WRONG!!"

 

[Cal44]

I think he is doing his best to become a media sensation.

He will probably make millions off book and movie deals.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I think he is doing his best to become a media sensation.

He will probably make millions off book and movie deals.

Does that make him a hoarder?

 

[finesse_r]

There Are Higher Moral Imperitives Than Orders.

I operated krypto gear in the USASA in the 70's. That required a top secret security clearance. I don't care if I liked what I heard while in a communication center in Germany or not, I would never break the oath. Not even today. To say he is anything but a criminal is to say that if you think you're right, even if it is against the law and you break that law, then, hey, maybe you're a hero. Not so in my mind, but the world and society are changing and so are the values people hold, so there will be many opinions about this topic. He knew it was wrong, or he would have stayed around to face the consequences. I think he is in deep trouble. Peace, gordon

At the end of WWII we hung a large number of German soldiers for not following their conscience and because they followed orders that went against what we defined as war crimes.

There is a major difference between a whistle blower and a traitor. However, those in power tend to use national security to hide their crimes and when someone dares to speak out he is labeled a traitor, rather than a heroic American.

The recent laws against whistle blowing are a very sad comment on the morals and ethics of the people running our government and the whistle blower may be one of the last lines of defense against enemies domestic.

There is a much greater oath that all government and military people take long before any oath about a specific job. That is the oat to defend the US Constitution against enemies "domestic" and foreign and that oath over rides all others as it well should. If we punish those with the integrity to inform the public about dangers to our constitutional rights then we deserve the fate many in government are planning for us.

Any government that is allowed to hide its crimes against its citizens and its crimes that would have it voted out of office under the guise of national defense is a government that is out of control of those that elected it. One of the few ways left to get valid information is when those that have it dare to speak out.

Do you think Nixon would have loved to silence "deep throat" with threats of being tried for treason and Nixon would have loved to shut it all up with a blanket of national security. Today he could get away with it due to things like the Patriot Act and the National Security Act.

God only knows what recent criminal actions have been hid from the public in such a fashion and how many people knew but remained silent for fear of being imprisoned for daring to speak the truth about those in power. Many large criminal conspiracies have been thwarted by the whistle blower with a conscious who listens to a higher power than those who happen to out rank him or her.

It is those that refuse to speak out when they see criminal activity inside our government that are the real traitors

 

[rojodiablo]

Just my option, Edward Snowden damaged national security by exposing a spy program. He's dangerous to the U.S. I am interested in what all you have in mind. Lets all be careful not to have this thread damaged by anger.. Okay fellas??

I have to weigh, very carefully mind you, what he has done.
More so than PFC Bradley did, this man was neck-deep in the midst of a program that has been tasked with an immense job: To find and root out terrorism, and protect Americans.
On the other hand, a LOT of people warned against the Patriot Act for the reason that it was too broad in scope, had no set mission, no set course, and no firmly set in stone boundaries. When coupled with FISA, and the added 'Protections' for Americans when the Patriot Act was renewed, we now see a side of government we have NEVER seen the likes of in the United States.
In fact, the side we are seeing is the very side my grandfather fought AGAINST. What we now have some insight into is the sheer magnitude of government control that has been GIVEN over to the executive branch of the government. And, once they were given an inch, they took a MILE, or much more. (We really have no idea just how intrusive and overbearing they are capable of being, or how the government is actually acting.)
Are we to believe that the data they have collected, and the tracking they are doing is really restricted to just potential terrorist threats? REALLY? After what we have learned about the IRS and their political maneuvering for election control, are we to believe that the same folks who ordered this kind of act did not go to the NSA and say "I would like to hear what the top 20 folks in the Romney campaign are doing. Phone, email, text, and banking. In REAL TIME, if you would be so kind......"
You had better believe they have looked-quite ILLEGALLY I will add, into people who have been vocal in their opposition to the president's programs. They have looked DEEP into those folks. And they dug dirt the likes of which is enough to make Hillary take a back seat in a political setting where she was clearly the one who had the best footing of anyone in the theatre, republican or democrat.

Look no further than as to how Cuba and the USSR ran their programs: First, we get to be nosy, for the good of the state. Then, we get to restrict the people, just a little bit, for the good of the state. Then, we get to punish those who dissent from the state, for the good of the state. We track, and follow, and set traps for you, and if you are not one with the state, we can, and will control you. We can control your work. We can control your family. We can control your health. We can control your safety, freedom, and speech. We can control, or end, your life.
For the good of the state.

Let's be real clear when we are talking about this phone, email, text collecting process within the US borders, upon American citizens. The FIRST word in FISA is: Foreign. Now, nowhere in FISA is the word: DOMESTIC. Nowhere.

And, what did Snowden say yesterday in his interview??? "With a personal email address, I can look right at every word written or said, from you and the guy down the street, to a senator, to the President of the United States........"

Do you REALLY believe this much power has not already been abused, by multiple people? Do you REALLY believe it will not be used by even MORE people, for more sinister, personal vindictive purposes????

 

[rojodiablo]

I think he is doing his best to become a media sensation.

He will probably make millions off book and movie deals.

He's as good as dead. His family is as good as washed up in America.

He just did the BIGGEST Ball-check in recent history in the name of freedom, for exposing corrupt government.

He sure as hell is not in this for the money. He was living in Hawaii, with an ex-ballet star, and making a bit over $200,000 a year working for the NSA, and CIA. He gave up a helluva lot for his conscience. I hope he lives free.

 

[wly1942]

To quote Pogo from the comic strip, "We have met the enemy and he is us".

 

[DelFuego]

He is a traitor. Give up government secrets and go to jail until you rot. The NSA has been eavesdropping on our conversations for decades under many Democratic and Republican US Presidents. They are safeguarding our country. Let's not forget that our military and covert forces DO depend on and use NSA intel. I don't see why people have their panties in a bunch. I don't have anything to hide. Listen to all of my calls, except for the 1-900 ones, for all I care.

Sent from my AT300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Fishinfool]

I am not going to say if he was right or wrong releasing the information he did. Going to look at it from a different angle...

Seems a lot of the "Whistle Blowers" today are releasing classified information based on their perception of what is right or wrong, oath to secrecy or classified status be dammed.

Now, what if a person, who has access to, say a deadly virus recipe, decides to release it to the public, because he believes it for the good of the world, putting all nations on an even playing field.

As long as he truly believes that, is it OK? Do we only honor classified status, and secerecy oaths as long as they meet our personal beliefs?

A lot of classified material is really not that big of a deal, or that harmful. But some of it really is dangerous, and can cause a lot of harm.

How far do we let an individual go in deciding what is what, based on their personal beliefs and agendas?

Larry

 

[hbbadboy]

If you take an oath, but are a part of something illegal, then you're breaking the law one way or another.

Ethics plays a part in this. He isn't a whistleblower in the sense that he didn't just tell people about it, he actually gave documents out. That's what makes this worse.

Did he have the right intensions of being ethical and telling us the people - yes. Did he do it the wrong way - yes.

 

[hbbadboy]

He is a traitor. Give up government secrets and go to jail until you rot. The NSA has been eavesdropping on our conversations for decades under many Democratic and Republican US Presidents. They are safeguarding our country. Let's not forget that our military and covert forces DO depend on and use NSA intel. I don't see why people have their panties in a bunch. I don't have anything to hide. Listen to all of my calls, except for the 1-900 ones, for all I care.

Sent from my AT300 using Tapatalk 2

Those who give up freedoms for temporary safety, deserve neither.

 

[hbbadboy]

He is a traitor. Give up government secrets and go to jail until you rot. The NSA has been eavesdropping on our conversations for decades under many Democratic and Republican US Presidents. They are safeguarding our country. Let's not forget that our military and covert forces DO depend on and use NSA intel. I don't see why people have their panties in a bunch. I don't have anything to hide. Listen to all of my calls, except for the 1-900 ones, for all I care.

Sent from my AT300 using Tapatalk 2

I believe in Due Process. Government doesn't have the right toy privacy without a reason to. These comments and beliefs are part of the reasons why America is turning into a nanny state. Let me guess- you don't need guns either? After all you have the police to protect you.

 

[peyton]

I have held a security clearance for 30 years. Never was I tempted or mad enough to endanger my country.
After I retired I did divulge to my daughter that I used to work on nuclear weapons while in the Army. She works at the PANTEX Nuclear facility in Amarillo Texas and told me "Dad those bombs are in our museum now, you REALLY are ancient"!! She makes and dismantles our arsenal now.
I did not mention that our job was to slow or stop the Russians by making Germany impossible to cross. The Germans blissfully were unaware of our Nuclear arsenal until the Pershing II missiles were brought in. Then somehow they found out about our "Nuclear Landmines". We never figured out how the press caught onto our presence.
President Reagan got rid of a lot of weapons in the nuclear reduction treaty including ours.
So going forward 30 years and spending 10 years in a war zone I feel there is valuable information that must stay "in house". Time will see what happens but the American public will alway remember that "Big Brother is Watching and Listening" to everything in our lives.

 

[fdw]

At the end of WWII we hung a large number of German soldiers for not following their conscience and because they followed orders that went against what we defined as war crimes.

There is a major difference between a whistle blower and a traitor. However, those in power tend to use national security to hide their crimes and when someone dares to speak out he is labeled a traitor, rather than a heroic American.

The recent laws against whistle blowing are a very sad comment on the morals and ethics of the people running our government and the whistle blower may be one of the last lines of defense against enemies domestic.

There is a much greater oath that all government and military people take long before any oath about a specific job. That is the oat to defend the US Constitution against enemies "domestic" and foreign and that oath over rides all others as it well should. If we punish those with the integrity to inform the public about dangers to our constitutional rights then we deserve the fate many in government are planning for us.

Any government that is allowed to hide its crimes against its citizens and its crimes that would have it voted out of office under the guise of national defense is a government that is out of control of those that elected it. One of the few ways left to get valid information is when those that have it dare to speak out.

Do you think Nixon would have loved to silence "deep throat" with threats of being tried for treason and Nixon would have loved to shut it all up with a blanket of national security. Today he could get away with it due to things like the Patriot Act and the National Security Act.

God only knows what recent criminal actions have been hid from the public in such a fashion and how many people knew but remained silent for fear of being imprisoned for daring to speak the truth about those in power. Many large criminal conspiracies have been thwarted by the whistle blower with a conscious who listens to a higher power than those who happen to out rank him or her.

It is those that refuse to speak out when they see criminal activity inside our government that are the real traitors

well said.

 

[quneur]

I feel these programs should have been made public considering the scope of the data gathering and ler the people decide if they want it or not. Snowden only confirmed the program exist. He also admitted that he had certain security data which he did not give out. So, in that aspect he atleast used the proper judgement. But I do believe he went about exposing these programs the wrong way. He should have talked to a member of Congress, someone who had the security clearance and leave it at that. The Congressman could then decide if it was worthy of exposure or a security risk. Snowden should not have been in a position to make that determination.

 

[venomballistics]

I dont think he sold out the USA, unless you consider the politicians and higher ups the USA. He is sharing what he knows about what is going on.

And it seems innocent til proven guilty is thrown by the wayside by calling him a Traitor with the minimal information that is out.

Chuck

Traitor isn't the most accurate term. His whistle blowing may ultimately save lives if the path leads to the worst case.
I think "enemy of the state" at least nicks the X ring, if your looking at the gov side of things.

Given the goings on at the gov levels of late .. the sum total has an eerie appearance of preparation for mobilization against we the people.

 

[Mike7.62]

I operated krypto gear in the USASA in the 70's. That required a top secret security clearance. I don't care if I liked what I heard while in a communication center in Germany or not, I would never break the oath. Not even today. To say he is anything but a criminal is to say that if you think you're right, even if it is against the law and you break that law, then, hey, maybe you're a hero. Not so in my mind, but the world and society are changing and so are the values people hold, so there will be many opinions about this topic. He knew it was wrong, or he would have stayed around to face the consequences. I think he is in deep trouble.
Peace,
gordon

Which oath? The one's that I swore both as an officer in the USN, and as a sworn LEO were and are to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic". Illegal orders are unlawful orders.

I don't know what part of the Fourth Amendment that you don't get, but being secure in your person, papers, and property means that unless .gov gets a warrant from a judge, they have no right to intercept, record, or peruse anything that I write or say where I have a reasonable expectation of privacy. That means phone cons, e mails, credit card purchases, etc., etc.

Snowden is a hero in my book, because he actually stood up and did something effective about unlawful activity in a US .gov agency. The outrage that I feel IRT the NSA and all of its nefarious programs is equally as great as the outrage that I feel over Fast and Furious, and numerous other unpunished infractions of the law by our government. Either we are ALL subject to the law, or none of us are, and if you want to see this country go downhill in quicker fashion than it already is, then let those in the government keep breaking laws which the rest of us are expected to follow, and chaos will result.

Think very hard about what is written in plain language in our founding documents before you condemn someone for standing up for them.

 

[UncleEd]

I suspect what Snowden has revealed was already known by the Russian, the Chinese, the Brit, the Israeli, the French and the German governments and thousands of topnotch computer people who don't work for the government.

I'm sure the top people at Google, IT&T, Verizon, etc. also were onto what was going on.

The Brits have had for decades The Official Secrets Act which in effect can be used to shut up anyone about anything the government deems worthy of hiding. Are we getting to that point ourselves?