Is THAT the active shooter?

[ladder13]

I hadn't thought of that, but you're right.

The percentage of out-of-state permit/license holders would be a good stat- I wonder how many people are using that "loophole".

If nothing else it demonstrates a need for national reciprocity.

Almost everyone I know has PA, FL and UT. I still have all three plus CT, and NY, and used to have ME and NH.
I was collecting permits back in the day

 

[Muss Muggins]

Bizarre, especially since I haven't stated a position, and certainly never called anyone a coward.

Yeah, you kinda did. Your statement to me, quoted, was this:

Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
How many murders do you think you could witness from your hidey-hole before you did something to stop it?

That is an accusation of cowardice, implying that while I was in my "hidey-hole" you'd be saving the world . . .

Edit: Anything else you post will be duly noted. I'm done here. Carry on, Dickie Peterson . . .

 

[Muss Muggins]

And for those who have totally missed the Dickie Peterson references, and for those who never knew him, I present the following:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mhymrayduU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mhymrayduU[/ame]

 

[okiegtrider]

This one is getting entertaining.

 

[Rastoff]

Sure why not if you have the skill & know 100% who the target is.

This is exactly why I asked the question that hasn't been answered yet; when you get to the gun fire you're running toward, how do you know who the bad guy is? Because if you don't know 100%, you need to stay out.

 

[Mainsail]

Yeah, you kinda did. Your statement to me, quoted, was...

That is an accusation of cowardice, implying that while I was in my "hidey-hole" you'd be saving the world . . .

I implied nothing, you inferred a lot.

You believed that because I didn't support your position that I was opposed to it.

You were wrong.

I had hoped you would be man enough to admit it.

This is exactly what I said:

"Instead of boxing yourself into a plan (if you can call it that) how about you rehearse the scenarios in your head, and if it ever happens you just play the hand you're dealt."

 

[Protected One]

I implied nothing, you inferred a lot.

You believed that because I didn't support your position that I was opposed to it.

You were wrong.

I had hoped you would be man enough to admit it.

This is exactly what I said:

"Instead of boxing yourself into a plan (if you can call it that) how about you rehearse the scenarios in your head, and if it ever happens you just play the hand you're dealt."

Can we give it a rest please, and focus on the topic rather than steering the thread toward being closed?

 

[Protected One]

Even without the possibility of multiple concealed carriers being on scene of an active shooter I still believe its best to keep my gun holstered until a threat presents itself...not just the "threat of a threat" as I consider shots in the distance to be.

While my first responsibility would be to secure the safety of any loved ones that might be with me I can think of situations in which I would intervene rather than flee after doing that. I would have to make that determination at the time, and based on the situation at hand. And never would it have anything to do with being a hero.

 

[JayFramer]

It frankly sickens me that some here keep saying they should have moved away from the shots.

In a mall full of innocents, children, babies, there were armed responsible heroes ready to take up arms against those that would slaughter them.

So sad to see some would run and cower and hide instead of help their fellow sheepdogs take down the attackers.

Isn’t one of our greatest arguments for gun rights and CCW rights especially is that they offer a means to reduce deaths from active shooters? Not saying people should sacrifice themselves needlessly, but if in such a situation an armed citizen can make a difference, I don’t think it’s right to claim they should just run like a scared Bambi deer instead of saving perhaps countless lives.

My $0.02.

 

[Rastoff]

It frankly sickens me that some here keep saying they should have moved away from the shots.

Sickens you? Don't you care about your family?

But forget that for a moment. In the situation posed in the OP, none of those that drew their pistols knew what was going on or how it started. So, I ask again, when you get to the place where the sounds are coming from, how do you distinguish the bad guy?

 

[aphelion]

So, I ask again, when you get to the place where the sounds are coming from, how do you distinguish the bad guy?

I suppose one could look for the person or persons that are shooting at fleeing, unarmed people.

 

[jlrhiner]

Some will always find an excuse to do nothing.

 

[biku324]

A CCW isn't a badge; only police have the obligation to 'go forward' to make an arrest. If one, as a citizen, is headed toward a crime in progress to try to stop the crime one way or another, that is an additional risk (personally and legally) that could turn out as badly for you as it too-often does for the police, who generally have qualified immunity from personal liability.

Think like a jury would - what would 12 reasonable people from your community believe was a justified set of actions? What were your options to avoid a use of deadly force? Were you precluded by the circumstances from any other course of action? What some folks on this forum think might just fall outside what the 12 folks representative of the community would decide.

Due note that the citizen who most famously, appropriately used deadly force to stop a mass shooting, Stephen Willeford, a NRA firearms instructor at Sutherland, Texas (the church massacre) used an AR-15 on a man dressed in black kevlar as he was reloading a Mini-14 after methodically firing more 100 rounds inside the church next door. That is hardly a shooting in a crowded mall with ambiguous identification of good v bad.

My opinion is that shooting folks is best avoided whenever possible. Minding your own business generally is good as well.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Active shooter response threads are on par with bear caliber and intenal lock threads. We all need to agree to disagree . . .

 

[Walkingwolf]

The bad guy would be the one shooting at innocent people. If someone is hunkered down holding a firearm while seeking cover, NOT shooting innocent people are probably not the bad guy.

Common sense should be more common.

 

[Muss Muggins]

And that person could be waiting for the other bad guy to go thru the kill zone and kill the people who think the threat is over. It ain’t as simple as you’d think . . .

The bad guy would be the one shooting at innocent people. If someone is hunkered down holding a firearm while seeking cover, NOT shooting innocent people are probably not the bad guy.

Common sense should be more common.

Edit. Common sense ain’t that common . . .

 

[Walkingwolf]

And that person could be waiting for the other bad guy to go thru the kill zone and kill the people who think the threat is over. It ain’t as simple as you’d think . . .

Unless somebody is shooting at my loved ones, or I, don't get involved. If they are then they are the bad guy, that's as simple as it gets. KISS

 

[Muss Muggins]

Unless somebody is shooting at my loved ones, or I, don't get involved. If they are then they are the bad guy, that's as simple as it gets. KISS

I think the discussion was about ignoring someone crouched in a corner with a gun during an active shooter event. You said you’d ignore them. I said do so at your own peril. Do so at your own peril . . .

 

[Walkingwolf]

I think the discussion was about ignoring someone crouched in a corner with a gun during an active shooter event. You said you’d ignore them. I said do so at your own peril. Do so at your own peril . . .

If they are not shooting at me I will not shoot at them. So if I shoot at them when they are not, then they will likely shoot back. That doesn't seem real smart but I am not the tactical expert. BTW where did I say ignore them? Just don't shoot them unless they are a threat.

 

[Whitwabit]

How close was the sound of gun fire ?? Was it echoing thru a mall or out side bouncing the sound off of the buildings .. many times locating the direction of the sound is very difficult !!

Doubtful I would draw immediately if the shooter wasn't in sight .. though my hand would have acquired the butt for quickly drawing if needed .. would CAREFULLY move toward an exit or out of the area with my family ..
I would never move toward the sound of gunfire !!