Is the .45 GAP round dead?

[ammoman]

.45 GAP

I use them in my S&W M-25-2 with half moon clips, for bullseye. They work great. When I find some they are usually very inexpensive, and I buy a bunch. I also reload them.
Best Regards
ammoman

 

[Screwball]

Huh ? G37 holds ten, G21 holds 13. Not much of a difference.

13x3=39+1=40
10x3=30+1=31

I did specify gun belt, being this is about departments making a move to the GAP. With that, you are gaining an extra nine rounds with the Glock 21... which is just one round shy of a full 37 magazine.

If you are going to say that it does not matter, then why was there a need to move away from revolvers... I've seen eight shot .357s.

 

[WildCard ZX6R]

13x3=39+1=40
10x3=30+1=31

I did specify gun belt, being this is about departments making a move to the GAP. With that, you are gaining an extra nine rounds with the Glock 21... which is just one round shy of a full 37 magazine.

If you are going to say that it does not matter, then why was there a need to move away from revolvers... I've seen eight shot .357s.

I see what you're saying now, but why not just carry one extra magazine ?

Was there really a NEED to move away from revolvers ? Save for occasions like the North Hollywood bank robbery (which any handgun would have been pretty much worthless anyway) i really don't think that most cops are going to be getting into extended gun battles with sidearms that require large volumes of ammunition or even reloading for that matter.

Personally i would rather have a six shot .357 or a 7 shot 1911 than a big, bulky G21 that i cannot shoot comfortably or accurately.

 

[mbinky]

13x3=39+1=40
10x3=30+1=31

I did specify gun belt, being this is about departments making a move to the GAP. With that, you are gaining an extra nine rounds with the Glock 21... which is just one round shy of a full 37 magazine.

If you are going to say that it does not matter, then why was there a need to move away from revolvers... I've seen eight shot .357s.

If everyone was worried about capacity, they probably wouldn't be going with a 45. Most of the agencies transitioning to GAP are not going from 45 auto, but from 9mm and 40 S&W. So obviously, capacity isn't an issue to them.

The best training in the world won't make my hands grow large enough to hold a G21 comfortably.

 

[Screwball]

There was one thread, either on BerettaForum or AR15.com, where one officer was talking about his department going with the 37 from the 22 (Glock pushed it). He mentioned that most officers hated them, due to capacity and ammo costs, which resulted them switching to the 21.

 

[sheriffoconee]

There was one thread, either on BerettaForum or AR15.com, where one officer was talking about his department going with the 37 from the 22 (Glock pushed it). He mentioned that most officers hated them, due to capacity and ammo costs, which resulted them switching to the 21.

I have done business with Glock as a CLEO of an agency that issues Glocks for 17 years....Glock doesn't care WHAT Glock you buy...to claim that Glock "pushed" something seems, well, not worthy of belief in my experience. Glock will supply you with whatever you want, and if you want to test different Glocks, they will bring a "box o Glocks" to your range and let you shoot them all.
Ammo costs are the same from my suppliers....
As far as issuing handguns, rifles, shotguns, pepper spray, hats, shirts, boots, ammo, patrol cars or anything else that EVERYONE likes, well, that ain't ever gonna happen.

 

[Screwball]

It was on AR15.com... just checked it after reading your post, and I was wrong. It was one of their brass that pushed the Glock 37, not Glock.

 

[sheriffoconee]

That makes more sense....I have had a lot of dealings with Glock distributors, they price the guns, then offer a trade in value on whatever the agency is going to swap for (assuming a swap of course) The price of the weapons is usually the same, the trade value varies per distributor.
We can sell the guns to individual officers for the trade value, or turn in what isn't bought. We always sell every one of the trade in pistols.

 

[Landric]

I think that the .45 GAP is a perfectly good cartridge. It offers most of what the .45 ACP does, so running it down for its performance really doesn't make any sense. While it may not be able to duplicate +P .45 ACP, I'm one of those folks that doesn't think the .45 ACP is in need of +P anyway. I don't own anything in .45 GAP, but I have shot guns so chambered, and it works fine.

That said, I too think that its a solution in search of a problem. Ammunition availability, not accounting for the recent madness, has historically never been as good as .45 ACP. There are few guns chambered for it, and if that trend continues it will probably slip away into obscurity. It really can't do anything the .45 ACP can't do except fit into a slightly smaller grip frame. With the advent of guns like the M&P45 even that "advantage" is questionable. I have also found that .45 ACP single stack autos tend to have much more comfortable grip frames than smaller cartridge double stack ones. Given the huge number of 8+1 single stack .45 ACP pistols out there, it doesn't make much sense to change to a different cartridge that may or may not be around in five years to gain two rounds per magazine.

 

[st regis]

For handgun fighting distances, the 45 GAP is just fine I'm sure. If I am on the way to a call where I already KNOW there is a shooter, I'm getting out with the patrol rifle and may transition to the G22 as needed. Placement, skill, confidence, and mindset wins gunfights-- not any majic caliber from any manufacturer.

 

[Knightrider03m]

Hi:
Months ago when any ammo disappeared from dealers' shelves .357 sig and .45 gap could still be found.
Jimmy

Were LOL...

 

[elrodcod]

.45 GAP

It was DOA.

 

[Wee Hooker]

Perhaps if those LE agencies spent more of their budget on practice ammo & drills vs chasing bigger guns /calibers, they could go back to model 19's.

Yes, the king wears no clothes...

 

[sheriffoconee]

Perhaps if those LE agencies spent more of their budget on practice ammo & drills vs chasing bigger guns /calibers, they could go back to model 19's.

Yes, the king wears no clothes...

Actually, that's an interesting point. Talking only about Georgia here, but the Public Safety Training Center no longer has a revolver training class. It is self loading pistols or nothing. The current crop of firearms instructors aren't trained in the art of reloading revolvers, or how to fight with them. Frankly, I enjoyed teaching my young troops how to use a speedloader.
We have a "Firearms Familiarization class for Women" we teach quarterly, and during the first class a bunch of ladies had revolvers, and if a couple of us old guys weren't there, no one would have known what to do with them.
LE has gone past the point of revolvers. No young deputy these days would feel armed at all if we gave them revolvers. Haven't you seen the movies, it is all semi autos these days

 

[Batjac]

(Sigh) The 45GAP puts 45ACP ballistics in a 9mm grip frame. That is its reason for being, and it does that. It is true that the 45ACP+P has better ballistics, but that is really beyond the intent of the 45GAP.

People gripe about the 45GAP mag capacity, but it is equal to or better than any 45ACP single stack. And as a double stack (more or less) tapered mag, it is easier to insert. 45ACP pistols with larger capacities tend to have bigger (usually much bigger) grip frames...and as the intent of the 45GAP is to keep the 9mm grip frame format, that is again outside the intent of the 45GAP.

The 45GAP is not popular among gun nuts, because most of us already have 45ACP's (who needs another caliber) and, if that includes big-ass double stacks, we have come to terms with that. If you are an LE administrator looking to issue hundreds of pistols or more, your frame of reference can be very different. 45ACP punch and capacity in a grip frame that already dominates, what, 70% of the LE market? And we are back to the 45GAP's reason for being. Further, not only will Glock give you that 9mm size grip frame with 45ACP punch, they can offer in in service, compact and supcompact sizes.

So it ends up being kind of a LE niche cartridge. Not that different from 357 Sig really.

That has been my thinking on the subject. My EDC is a Glock 19. I have been considering moving to a 45 and figured a Glock 38 made sense with it's identical grip frame. If I was shooting a 17 with a full size frame, tho I would probably go with 45ACP in a full size frame.

BTW, here in south central Kansas, most dealers still had GAP when you couldn't even get a wiff of 9mm.

 

[colt_saa]

Unfortunately it is not dead.

The Florida Highway Patrol will shortly announce (if it has not been released yet) that the Glock 37 has been chosen to replace the now discontinued Beretta 96Ds.

I am certain that Glock will make a big deal of this out at this years SHOT show.

 

[SW99Fan]

I always knew .45 GAP wouldn't get off the ground that well. It tried fixing something that really didn't need fixing. Better stopping power will generally come in a bigger package, and trying to scale that package down will only result in disappointment in most cases. 10mm to .40 cal was one of the exceptions. I remember springfield made XDs in .45 GAP but I always wondered why, and thought it wouldn't sell. .45 GAP is dead. Was a decent try, but still no dice.

 

[SGT45]

My duty weapon is a Glock 38. I carry it by choice, not because of a "mandate". I am the boss. I too thought it was an answer in search of a question, until I got some trigger time with it. In the G38, it fits my hand, fits MOST of the holsters I had for my G23's, etc...
It's accurate. It is reliable. I like the 45 caliber bullet in a 9mm frame.
No, ammo isn't in white boxes on WalMart shelves. The ACE Hardware in East Jesus Kentucky won't have boxes of it for sale on the shelves.
Ammo is available. As someone else mentioned, when the "run" on ammo this year was at it's worst, most well stocked stores had GAP on the shelves, along with 357 Sig.
1000 rounds of duty ammo for the GAP runs $330 bucks in todays prices, 20 bucks a thousand less than the same ammo in ACP from our supplier.
Try it and see what you think, or dismiss it without shooting it based on principal...the choice is yours.

We issue the Glock .45 GAP's and ACP's. PD split- Patrol carry G21SF's, G38's and G37 GEN 4's. Detective Div. has G30SF's and G39's. Admin. has G30's, G38's and G39's. Eagerly awaiting G38 GEN 4's!!!!!!!!!!! We get the .45 GAP at the same cost as the .45 ACP. thru State bid. The .45 GAP is proving to be a very reliable, accurate and incapacitating round. Plenty of 1 shot stops. To each his own. PSP and numerous other PD's have done testing and homework and the .45 GAP has proven to be a capable LE pistol and round.

 

[Silversmok3]

The growing market for gun companies today is CCW oriented self defense pistols. In a vast majority of personal defense cases just drawing the gun is enough to deter attack,and because crooks don't rob people from 30 yards away distance is typically VERY close. If the weapon is fired the engagement usually ends inside of ten rounds.

For that application, an 8 shot 45 ACP firearm works rather well.Large capacity weapons have their place, but the typical civil carry situation ain't one of them-and that's where the money is right now.

 

[walnutred]

WOW, for that price I think I'll order one. I've never owned a Glock so this will give me an excuse to buy one. I think the 45 GAP will go well with my 9mm Federal, 32 Mag and other orphan calibers I seem to have a soft spot for.

 

[Pointblank2U]

When Glock came out with their short frame models they negated the only real reason for the GAP, a 45 for smaller hands. It's a doomed cartridge.

 

[SPEEDGUNNER]

I like .45GAP. But hey, I like 10mm too, so what do I know? I am not really one for introducing a new caliber to the stable, but a few years ago I got a pretty sweet deal on a PSP surplus G37 that appealed to the collector in me, and lo and behold, after a trip to the range I found it appealed to the shooter in me as well. I followed that with a G38, bought another one of each for my son, and we have embraced the .45GAP as both a carry and target round. As stated, ammo is out there, and no more expensive than .45ACP if you shop for it. I find it comfortable to shoot, snappy, but not as brutal as a 1911, and with the same size grip frame as the G19 it really isn't too hard to conceal.

It is a shame that it has not caught on to a greater degree. I am not sure if that is because of the Glock haters, the ACP lovers, or what. I wish S&W would introduce an M&P in .45GAP, but then again I am waiting for the M&P 10mm to hit dealer shelves.

It isn't dead. I think that as the surplus PD guns hit the market, and at the prices Bud's is currently offering that is one HECK of a deal, and folks are exposed to the weapons and the round, you will see a resurgence of interest. I would hate to see the .45GAP round become a footnote.

Buy one, you'll see.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Simply put some comments on this subject are simply a common dislike of Glock.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I'm SUPPOSED to dislike a Glock. It doesn't fit my hand. I also dislike S&W factory grips, but I can do something about that. One of the most important characteristics of a handgun, almost as important as reliability, is that the HANDgun fit the HAND. The Block fails in this regard for many people. Strangely, a 100-year-old design seemed to work well enough with the .45ACP, but Gaston decided that the cartridge was too long, rather than that he didn't know how to design a double-stack pistol, even though the Canadians had already done so. Remember the Para Ordnance double-stack?

Glock screwed up.

 

[Militwacht]

Massad Ayoob wrote an article in American Handgunner with a list of organizations using the .45GAP. As I recall there were quite a few listed.

 

[VTHokiesDuckHunter]

I think 45 GAP was created because Glock didn't have any cartidges named after them like S&W or Colt.

And that my friend's is the "post of the week!".

Why would anybody buy a .45 GAP when you can buy a .40 S&W or .45 ACP is beyond me.

Here's my possibly interesting predictions on Glock's future for US sales:

Now that S&W M&P's are being more widely accepted by LEO's; SIG's are the choice of departments wanting metal framed pistols; and here's the wild card - FNH now makes one of the best shooting, best handling pistols on the market and they are made in the USA, and a new version is striker fired which LEO's like,......I believe that Glocks will be purchased less and less.

They are not made in the US; they have inferior ergonomics particularly grip angle; and I think there is starting to be "Glock backlash" now that there are so many other better choices.

Me? I'm not a LEO forced to use a striker gun, so I will continue shooting DA/SA 3rd gen metal framed pistols, metal SIGS; 1911's and Hi-Powers, and for a polymer gun that is hammer fired DA/SA - the mighty FNX40.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

When Glock came out with their short frame models they negated the only real reason for the GAP, a 45 for smaller hands. It's a doomed cartridge.

This is pretty much the extent of it.

Glock 45acp grips were fat, so they came out with a round to reduce the size yet keep a 45 caliber bullet. Next, Springfield Armory comes out with their 45acp XD showing everyone that a double stack 45acp dosn't need to feel like a brick. Glock then comes out with the SF models which starts the decent of the GAP cartridge.

There are still some die hard GAP users over at the Glock forum but I think it's more about being different than having a caliber you can buy off the shelves at most retail stores. The GAP Glock is being sold at "just get rid of them" prices but you'll lose the savings when you go to buy ammo.

BTW, the ACP cartridge cannot be safely cut down and loaded as a GAP. Just Google search online to see why.

Here's a clue

 

[nipster]

In regards to departments dumping this gun or that gun:

Agencies get money and have budgets, and have to spend them. They dont live in the world of spending less than they have to. I know for fact local agencies have changed their weapons many times in the past 10-15 years. From 3rd gen Smiths to Glocks (22) then back to Smith M&P's. Reason? God only knows.

45 GAP is dead. I think 10mm has a better chance than GAP.

 

[sgt.207]

I use a Glock 38 in 45gap and think it is a great combo. If the Glock 30 had a full grip i would use that but cant stand getting my fingers pinched between the magazine and the frame. Anyone i know thats tried the 45gap loves it.

 

[IdahoSpud]

If the 45 GAP is indeed dead, please send me all your brass and I'll see that it gets a proper burial.