Is the Slide fire going to be history?

deadin said:
But how many Jerry Miculeks are there out there???
Click to expand...

A more serious question would be how many rubber bands are out there?

Folks act like techniques to increase rate of fire is something new. It isn't. Here's a vid over a decade old... techniques like this have been around since forever.

Tax Stamp or complete ban on rubber bands?

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfwFP_RwTQ[/ame]
 
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BigDog48 said:
I know this won't be a popular question, but what are the various rapid-fire devices like Bumpstock good for, except burning through ammo?

If anyone can describe a real purpose for them, I'd like to hear it. As Wee Hooker said, we'll be lucky if they are the only thing we lose because of this crazy guy, and his sick act.
Click to expand...

Read the second amendment, your answer is in the words.
 
I never paid much attention to them or how much they cost, but here in Florida on a local FTF gun trading site, one is going for $400 and another is "highest offer-text offer to xxx-xxx-xxxx"
 
Walkingwolf said:
It DOES NOT turn a semi into a full auto, the trigger HAS to pulled for every shot.
Click to expand...

Exactly!

A "slide" fire or "bump" stock does NOT turn a semi into an auto. The trigger still needs pulled for each shot.

All the stock does is allow the recoil momentum to be used in aiding trigger pull making it faster than most can pull without it. However, practice enough and you could fire just as fast eventually. (Better ban practicing)

It's a novelty, but still, nothing illegal and you didn't hear anything about them until the incident. I have no use for one, but I will not lie down while others lose their right to. Not everyone can afford the real deal, and devices like this give average folks the opportunity to experience "auto like" fire.

Hey, I have no real use for an AR15, and don't own one, maybe I should push for banning them. After all, it wouldn't affect me? That mentality will be the end of us.

For all you who think this stock is now an evil device that must be banned, you should know that a retail piece of equipment is NOT needed to operate a semi-auto like this. Similar concepts can be crafted from household items, and for pretty much any semi-auto.

I watched a guy with a hi-cap Glock and a piece of wood fire it just like an auto. We better ban wood and Glocks next. Or the other examples given, like rubberbands, better ban rubberbands.

I'm amazed to see how many are willing to sell out their brethren just because this issue doesn't affect or pertain to them. I'm also amazed at how many consider themselves "gun" guys. We aren't going to win anything going forward with this "united" front we have.

I would rather live in America with risk and be able to defend myself against that risk, than live in "Safe America" with nothing to defend myself and relying on the Govn't. As we all know criminals don't adhere to the law. The risk is just part of the package living in such a free country. I wouldn't trade it for the world, and ever increasing crazies will not scare me enough to support giving up ANY of those rights.

If ya'll want to live in a "safe" world, I'm sure there's plenty of room in Australia with Red. But if history has any lessons, it's even gun-free countries aren't "safe".
 
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gman51 said:
I almost bet the bump fire systems will be outlawed. In essence it makes a semi auto a full auto action. I saw a video of a guy emptying a 100 round drum in less than a minute using a bump stock.

Yep I do believe it will be outlawed is for any reason it will be considered making the gun full auto action. You need a permit to own a full auto and I bet the bump stock will be classified the same category.


Mr5point56 slide fire 100rnd mag dump!! woot! - YouTube
Click to expand...

What a waste of ammunition.
 
iPac said:
I'm amazed to see how many are willing to sell out their brethren just because this issue doesn't affect or pertain to them. I'm also amazed at how many consider themselves "gun" guys. We aren't going to win anything going forward with this "united" front we have.
Click to expand...

Not everyone here is "selling out." Some are just asking questions to inform themselves. It's a discussion among gun owners, not a negotiation.
 
jag312 said:
What a waste of ammunition.
Click to expand...

One man's waste is another man's folly, pleasure, choice.....you can call it whatever you want, but as long as we have choices who cares what the guy does with his ammo.......someone could say that the 10,000s of rounds I have saved up is a waste because I don't use them....I would call it precautionary......others might call it hoarding but as long as it is legal it is my right to do so.....let us hope it stays a right and not somebody's idea of a privilege. Once my Slidefires get in I will probably go waste some ammo.....choices that is what makes us free.
 
Well,
It may come down to a Class III designation and NFA rules
would apply for all of these (rapid fire) trigger assist mechanisms.

Just another tax.........

.


.
 
Jeff Cooper, bless his departed soul, opined many years ago that full-auto fire at some distance for self defense is way less effective than aimed semiauto fire, and that if he were shot at, he'd be less concerned with the auto fire. Fear the marksman rather than the "spray and pray" types.

Most full auto pistols, in MY opinion, are totally useless - barely controllable. Anyone who has fired an H&K VP70 M, Mauser schnellfeur broomhandle or a MAC-10 with its stock folded up in full-auto mode will probably agree on this. The only exceptions I've encountered would possibly be the 9mm H&K MP5A1 or MP5K (stockless) subguns - very smooth closed-bolt roller-locked delay design with little recoil disturbance. Still no match for the stocked versions, though.

The U.S. armed services found that the M14 rifle in full-auto mode was nearly uncontrollable, and they locked out the feature on most of them that were issued. A great battle rifle, but a damned poor machine gun.

Pistol-caliber submachine guns are useful for clearing rooms; for anything else, better tools are usually available.

In short, full-auto is overrated, except when used for firing on an area in a target-rich environment - the LV travesty certainly proved that.

John
 
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the slide fire stock was invented by a disabled veteran,

when I first saw the things, one of the first thoughts in my mind was that this could be used in a horrible way, by an idiot

but the second was that I wanted one and after acquiring one I realized that like others here have said it was a waste of ammo. and did not fit at all with my addiction to accuracy, so I sent the stock packing at a local gun show.

the media is so concerned with the GUYS 48 gun arsenal, that I figure they would faint if they ever saw my collection

however again it was the man, not the guns who had evil in his heart

and we cant legislate evil out of existence, we can only prepare and prey.

my LEO son gave a CCW class for a local church last Saturday after the event in Antioch TN, the previous Sunday.

and while at the post office in uniform Monday mailing off the paperwork
the local postmaster asked if he had had a ccw class?

a lady in line asked if his concealed weapon would have helped in Las Vegas, his reply was no, but that most defensive weapon use is in within 21 ft. but if he could have reached a long gun then it would have been a different story, at 450 yds. even shooting uphill he could have put rounds in the 8 ft window to help suppress the shooter

when someone wants to commit savagery there is nothing to stop them until someone is willing to stand in the gap

had the guy rammed a semi at high speed through the wire fence it would have been just as effective look at Paris last year

when the whole story comes out I bet the guy is one who was a narcissist who thought he was better than everyone else and hated that little less deserving people were having such fun and wanted to insure his place in the history books

my prayer is that he was held back at heavens gate and forced to watch his victims enter into heavens glory, then handed to the eternal flames of hell

the reality is that the bump fire stocks will probably be legislated away , even though a well trained trigger puller with a semi can run almost as fast,

I am old enough to remember that you use to have to record purchases of all hand gun ammo even 22 after the high profile shooting of the 1960's

its natural for people to have knee jerk reactions

this time will be no different
 
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The equipment that was used to commit this horrific act
did not cause the perpetrator to go over the edge into insanity.

I understand that this madman was also a licensed pilot.
If he had chosen a plane to attack the concert goers......

Banning or restricting firearms or the accessories for them
will not stop the un-lawful use of same.

I'm oppose to murder, be it with a firearm or the jawbone of an *** or anything in-between.

.
 
Dave Lively said:
For about 3 decades I have been trying explain to people that "assault rifles" are not machine guns and cannot be easily converted to full-auto. I realize a slide stock is not true full-auto. But there is no way I will ever be able to convince anyone that heard the video that this guy did not successfully convert his gun to full auto. The effect was certainly the same.

The general public is so opposed to full auto guns being available a ban on sales of devices designed to simulate full auto is inevitable. Probably not with the current president and congress but Republicans are not going to be in power forever.


Rather than fight a losing battle I would rather see the Hearing Protection Act amended to include a ban on future sales of slide stocks and cranks. Most of the gun enthusiasts I know always oppose giving up anything but in this case we would be gaining more with suppressors than we would be giving up with Slide fire stocks. I doubt the NRA would support any sort of compromise but Trump does like to make deals.
Click to expand...

The Bump Stock is not in same bracket as Magazines, and stupid
cosmetic limitations. The definition of a automatic weapon is one
that fires multiple times with one pull of the trigger. The Bump
Stock for some reason was approved by BTAF. It seems to me
that it fit the definition perfectly. We should not be having this
discussion, it should never been legal.

We still have people who need educated. A assault rifle is a rifle
that has semi auto and full auto capability, select fire. The civilian
versions of these rifles are not assault rifles they fire in semi auto
mode only.

The fact that this Bump Stock issue is causing arguments in the
pro 2nd group is not helpful. Common sense must be used, this
device has nothing to do with the other issues brought up and
it should be kept separate. If they go after magazines or certain
guns, whether I like them or not, I would not cave to Anti gun
people. This is where you have to question whether you want
to champion the right to own a device that should have never
existed. What I would like to know is the background on the
BTAF allowing this device.
 
iPac said:
....
It's a novelty, but still, nothing illegal and you didn't hear anything about them until the incident. I have no use for one, but I will not lie down while others lose their right to. Not everyone can afford the real deal, and devices like this give average folks the opportunity to experience "auto like" fire.
.........

I'm amazed to see how many are willing to sell out their brethren just because this issue doesn't affect or pertain to them.....
Click to expand...

At the risk of being the skunk at the garden party, I'm going to offer a completely different perspective on this argument.

It appears to me that actually abiding with the law isn't all that popular with some of the people who like to blather a lot about the gun rights of "law-abiding citizens".

Devices like the Bump stock/slide fire or the old hellfire trigger have been quite clearly designed to circumvent and undermine the law by giving the user near-full auto capability without technically being full auto.

If you don't like the law, work to change it. If you don't want to do that, work within the law and go Class III if you just have to have full auto.

I'll never support banning anything, but I find the suggestion that the 2nd Amendment creates some sort of moral obligation to actively defend the "right" of some fringe element to give the law the finger quite ridiculous. These aren't my "brethren" either.
 
Drm50 said:
The Bump Stock is not in same bracket as Magazines, and stupid
cosmetic limitations. The definition of a automatic weapon is one
that fires multiple times with one pull of the trigger. The Bump
Stock for some reason was approved by BTAF. It seems to me
that it fit the definition perfectly. We should not be having this
discussion, it should never been legal.

We still have people who need educated.

What I would like to know is the background on the
BTAF allowing this device.
Click to expand...

Yes, being educated on the subject is key.

SlideFire does not at all not fit the definition of an automatic weapon. With the SlideFire installed, for every single discharge the trigger still must be pressed. That has been explained more than once in this thread.

The SlideFire stock has no automatically functioning mechanical parts or springs and performs no automatic mechanical function when installed. The ATF found it to simply be a firearm part and not regulated as a firearm by the GCA or NFA.

As far as background... here is the ATF letter of June 2010 on the subject.

http://www.slidefire.com/downloads/BATFE.pdf
 
My personal comment on the bump stock/slide fire is that it doesn't matter that a good shooter can rapidly fire his/her semi-auto rifle or pistol, or a cowboy action shooter/Bob Munden can do it with a lever rifle or a single action pistol. That is a physical skill that a person can acquire. A bump stock/slide fire is a contraption designed to circumvent the law by mechanically doing what an internal sear is not allowed to do except in a taxed/regulated Class III weapon. As a rule of thumb the law always says that you cannot do indirectly what you cannot do directly and in this case that maxim is violated by a device that should have been an NFA item in 2010. A smart man invented it, a veteran I am told, and I understand his business acumen and engineering skill and his skill at dodging the regulations and I can admire him for all three.

But in the clarity of hindsight what I said in 2010 when I learned of these devices is still correct - they belong in the NFA regulated category if my little leather Galco wallet covering a 2 shot derringer is an NFA "any other weapon". It is neither sensible nor legally consistent to regulate a chunk of leather and not regulate a device capable of turning a semi-automatic rifle into what very closely resembles and functions as a fully automatic rifle.

Unanimity in Congress, the Senate, the White House, and with NRA support is a good thing this time.
 
The way I'm reading the Congresscritters babblespeak, "They are considering options regarding 'modifications' that circumvent the spirit of the 1934 NFA regulation." Unfortunately, rubber bands are more efficient, expedient, inexpensive and ubiquitous. As are AR15's. The devil is once again in the details. Joe
 
bushmaster1313 said:
Senator Feinstein is introducing a Bill to ban Bump Fire and Trigger Cranks.

I am okay with this, but it should be combined with some pro-2A stuff like national concealed carry and allowing the shipment of handguns and ammo through the Post Office.
Click to expand...

You're living in a dream world. Or some parallel universe. That has about as much chance of happening as I have of walking to Los Angeles and back this afternoon.
 
Well there ya go...

"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations," NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre and Executive Director Chris Cox added in a joint statement.

The only question now is will pro gun legislators and the NRA be able to negotiate removing other gun regulations for such additional regulations, or will this turn out to be just a belly-up capitulation.
 
ChattanoogaPhil said:
Yes, being educated on the subject is key.

SlideFire does not at all not fit the definition of an automatic weapon. With the SlideFire installed, for every single discharge the trigger still must be pressed. That has been explained more than once in this thread.

The SlideFire stock has no automatically functioning mechanical parts or springs and performs no automatic mechanical function when installed. The ATF found it to simply be a firearm part and not regulated as a firearm by the GCA or NFA.


As far as background... here is the ATF letter of June 2010 on the subject.

http://www.slidefire.com/downloads/BATFE.pdf
Click to expand...

Education is key, for bump fire to work you must keep the trigger
depressed. If you had to pull the trigger every time what would
you gain over semi auto mode. The Bump fire stock action
replaces the action of shooter having to pull trigger for each shot.
We have people wanting to argue over something they know
nothing about. If your finger is not in position it would be in while firing, the bump fire won't work. If it did you would have a run away gun, it would fire until empty. The concept is using you trigger finger as a firing stud against returning recoil. I know nothing about legal language that allows
Legal status.
 
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Like it or not, bump stocks will likely end up on the chopping block. I just hope we can manage to get something out of the deal. Complete removal of all NFA fees would work for me. I can live with the extra hassle in terms of regulating them, but that unconstitutional tax really doesn't sit well with me. How long until they impose the same tax on purchasing a standard firearm? Just a bad precedent to let stand in my opinion.
 
secretsquirrel2 said:
Its a cave in that is for sure. But at least I hope they allow people to keep them and register them under NFA even if they do not allow anymore in the pool. So many of our own ranks are cave in collaborators. I have known many who let their NRA membership go because they did not back banning the AR15 and AKs back in 94. We won because we stuck together for the most part and voted out the sell outs.
Click to expand...

NRA's endorsement of further gun regulation I think will cost them support unless they are able to spin something pro gun from this. I would expect to see some crowing from anti-gun adversaries of the NRA followed by the usual attacks.

The question becomes... what happens if a guy does something similar without a bump fire? Will the NRA again suggest further regulation on a gun you and I own? That's a question I think the NRA needs to get in front of.
 
Drm50 said:
Education is key, for bump fire to work you must keep the trigger
depressed.

We have people wanting to argue over something they know
nothing about.
Click to expand...

Wrong.

The trigger cannot remain depressed. The trigger must be released.

Yes, there are people attempting to discusss this with a lack of knowledge. Let's try to remedy that just a little here.

Watch this vid. You will see how the trigger cannot stay depressed and fire another shot. Notice how the trigger must be released.

Hope this helps.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh2FjzVVIZY[/ame]
 
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