Is the Slide fire going to be history?

[TTSH]

Could be prohibited in many states
Might even get done in by Congress

Don't have one and would be fine to see it go

I also have no problem limiting centerfire rifle mags to 10 and pistol mags to 10, 12 or 15

I don't have a Shockwave, a circumvention of the NFA, and think they're useless and need to go.

See how that works?

I do see how that works. It's a sad fact of life that gun owners tends to fragment based on "what I like or don't like" or "what I feel I need or don't need" while the anti-2A crowd never fragments or compromises on anything. They march together with a unified anti-2A message and it's how they have been so successful in getting laws passed against us.

I happen to live in MA and it's a certainty that a bump stock ban with a life prison sentence attached (no, not a joke) is going to pass here... and that's not even the worse part. The worse part is that they are going to outlaw our pre-ban magazines as well... sort of an add-on bonus for them... a "2Fer" as they call it.

So to the instant cavers: Beware about how your own state goes about banning these evil bump stocks that you say you don't want or need or even understand. You may find that stuff that you do care about or do feel you need might go down the drain with the bump stocks. I see more states including magazine restrictions with their bump stock bans for certain. Might even trigger another national ban. Hope you can live with 10 rounds or less... or ammo restrictions... or whatever else some other gun owner feels he or she is willing to give up to another new ban.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. So, a question;

If Vegas had not happened, and ATF issued a ruling to the effect of "we've continued to review bump-fire devices and have come to the conclusion that they serve only to circumvent the GCA of 1934.Therefore, they are deemed to be an NFA item and must be registered or surrendered." Would there have been "the line in the sand" drawn for this issue? Or would most of us have went "Ehh, they're right" and went on about our business?

It's not a mind-bending exercise for those who understand that the GCA of 1968 and NFA in 1934 are both infringements and so is what flows from it.

Most folks? It's been my observation that most pay near zero attention to these things. Like I mentioned earlier, it's not uncommon for even well seasoned gun owners at my club to act surprised when they see a silencer, having lived their entire life thinking they were illegal to own. There has been similar misunderstanding and myth displayed in this thread. If nothing else, perhaps this thread has helped a little.

Cheers.

 

[tops]

It's not a mind-bending exercise for those who understand that the GCA of 1968 and NFA in 1934 are both infringements and so is what flows from it.

.

LIKE, LIKE, LIKE and many more LIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Muss Muggins]

I don't have a Shockwave, a circumvention of the NFA, and think they're useless and need to go.

See how that works?

I got two, because I can, because the Second Amendment says I can. FU . . .

See how that works?

 

[Muss Muggins]

I agree but its like taxes, some say the 16th amendment was not ratified, but don't pay and they still take your home.

No, it's not like taxes. And the 16th Amendment was ratified. Take your tinfoil hat off . . .

 

[moosedog]

How do we keep them out of the hands of the MS 13 crowd, gang bangers and drug cartel people not to mention jihadists living here in America?

 

[Muss Muggins]

If they ban them, and its a turn them in or destroy them and you are caught with one, you will do time. See how that works?

They're legal. See how that works . . . ?

 

[Muss Muggins]

So was the Atkins Accelerator and then they banned it, if you have one and are caught you get 10 years. If congress bans ownership and does not grandfather it in your SOL.

I'll take the risk. Thanks for looking out for me . . .

 

[KEN L]

"To me bump firing and large capacity magazines only wastes ammo."

That IS afterall, the whole point, DUH!

 

[KEN L]

Not looking out for anyone. The facts are the facts. The Atkins accelerator was deemed legal by ATF, several months later they said it was not legal and you either had to destroy it or turn it in. If your caught with one today you go up river. Atkins has revised it but it does not work well at all. But the point is you can bury it, hide it or if you have enough land where no one will know you can shoot it. But you can also be like that with the actual parts of a full auto. You can buy them but not install them.

Your description above is not totally accurate. First of all it was an Akins Accelerator stock. There was no requirement to turn in or destroy. Unlike a Slide Fire stock, this one had a spring that enabled it to function. When ATF reversed their ruling on it, they required owners to remove the spring and send it to ATF. So, you had a choice, identify yourself and turn in the spring or not turn in the spring and hope that ATF didn't already know you had the stock. I turned in the spring, but still have the stock. It is totally useless, but a reminder of how things can change. As far as Akins revising the stock but not working very well, I've got news for you, the original design was not that reliable. Some got the hang of it, I never did. Now the Slide Fire and others like it, is very easy to master. Too easy. I remember the first video I saw of one, my comment was, "you gotta be kidding me", that won't last long. It just amazes me how ATF rules on things. There was no option to register Akins stocks. They're most likely will not be with bump fire devices either.
Okay, I'm off my soap box now!

 

[TTSH]

BATFE DECIDES THE AKINS ACCELERATOR™ TO BE A MACHINEGUN

With so many of our fellow gunowners willingly ready to bend over and take it, the only question left is whether we are better off with the BATFE reversing its approval and banning the offending item du jour that way... or having Congress ban it through new legislation. Which is the least risky or least damaging to us long-term? Which do you think is going to happen?

In my own state, I am screwed anyway so I suppose it shouldn't matter to me. They are going to double up on whatever the Federal government does just so they can make the penalty even worse... i.e., life in prison for possession. Incredible, but true.

 

[Watchdog]

Slide Fire News

Slide Fire Solutions of Moran, Texas is now being sued by The Brady Center.

Fostech Outdoors, of Seymour, Indiana, who makes slide fire stocks under license from Slide Fire has not been named in any lawsuits. Yet.

Neither company is responding to messages.

Both companies have suspended sales until further notice.

Jeremiah Cottle, inventor and president of Slide Fire is not answering any questions at this time.

The lawsuit seeks financial renumeration for victims' therapy, mental distress, and treatment. The suit also seeks punitive damages, but no dollar amount has been mentioned. Yet.

The suit will probably move forward in some form or another. If not the one from the Brady Center, then lawsuits will be filed by who-knows-how-many victims. This could drag out in the courts for years, and could spell the end for both companies.

Quoting from CNN-Money:

"Bump stocks have been selling out around the country since the Mandalay Bay massacre. Some retailers say that sales are driven by the fear of consumers that gun control legislation will ban bump stocks.

Legislators of both parties have suggested tighter controls or outright bans on bump stocks. In an unusual move, the National Rifle Association, which generally opposed all gun control, has said bump stocks should be subject to 'additional regulations.'"

I wasn't planning on commenting any further in this thread, but with all the speculation, disinformation, and thread drift going on in this thread,

I thought some facts might interest some people. I said "might".

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Which is the least risky or least damaging to us long-term? Which do you think is going to happen?

Good question.

The ATF has reviewed this device more than once and concluded it does not meet the criteria for regulation as defined by the GCA or NFA. They put their determination in writing. End of story... right? So... if the ATF bends to outside pressures vs the word of law then what does that ultimately mean for tomorrow? Is the GCA and NFA now 'living documents' determined by a whim of the political moment and a stooge with a pen at the Department of Justice?

If Congress writes a separate law going after 'rate of fire' as does Feinstien's proposed bill--- "It shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, manufacture, possess a trigger crank, a bump fire device or any accessory that functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle", what new can of worms will that open?

While I think no additional laws or regulations are the answer, my answer to the question is that Congress makes law. That's what the legislative branch is supposed to do.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The Feinstien bill would make it so broad that triggers designed to lighten trigger pull would be banned or could be seen as illegal.

Exactly. Aftermarket triggers that are lighter and a shorter reset enhance the operator's ability to increase rate of fire over a GI trigger. That would well fit definitions in Senator's proposed bill.

If you consider that some want the ATF to interpret a SlideFire stock to fit the legal definition of a machine gun... interpretations derived from Fienstein's bill could go in a lot of directions.

That said, I'm very much against the ATF dreaming up a different determination on the SlifeFire, morphing into a political sockpuppet.

 

[scoobysnacker]

I'm torn when it comes to discussions like this. I'm against banning things, and against giving up stuff because of the slippery slope argument.

But I wish our side would use some judgement on things like this, too. It gets very hard to defend bumpfire stocks as anything more than novelties, and whatever short-term gain is made by adding them to the market might well be offset if/when the anti-gun side gains the upper hand.

Objectively, yes, one can bumpfire simply with a shoestring or rubber band, if one has a semi-auto. You can't ban shoestrings and rubber bands... so that leaves the semi-auto rifle, and high capacity magazines. Canada limits mag capacity to 5 rds, I think. Get enough public outcry and we might face that.

I think the NRA is looking right at that scenario, which is why they "caved".

 

[TomkinsSP]

How do we keep them out of the hands of the MS 13 crowd, gang bangers and drug cartel people not to mention jihadists living here in America?

Put gang bangers including those in MS13 in jail. Jihadists too. As for the cartels...DONT LET THE ATF HAVE ANY (lets see, naming an ill concieved sting after a video game, what could possibly go wrong.)

Really, I mean how do we keep Charlie Manson out of your cutlery drawer or Bernie Madoff out of your child's piggy bank...