Is there something in the water in Texas?....

[Mule Packer]

We're an open carry state here in Utah. However, very seldom...and I mean very seldom do you ever see somebody carrying openly. Most folks carry concealed. No big deal. That's just the way it is.

I have to agree that the various OC demonstrations have the propensity of giving the wrong impression about gun owners. As a result, many non-gun owners or anti-gun people perceive gun owners as semi-literate, camo-clad, beer-drinking loud mouths. And personally, I don't think that's the image we want.

 

[Biginge]

Boys, what Mulepacker and Keith .44spl. said pretty well convey my sentiments on this subject. I mentioned "tractor pull" in an earlier post on this subject, Mulepacker had his camera at ready when they were leaving. Please, lets don't drift this to "Whats wrong with tractor pull? I like em.''

A source close to this reporter has assured me that "the NRA memo erronerously issued was leaked by "low level employees in the Cincinatti office and is not a large issue." Heh, Heh.

I just don't think assemblage with a bunch of guns like that is needed to get this legislation passed. Then you can oc or cc however you want. How many of us jump on the antis when they seize an "opportunity" to cram their agenda down our throats. I really see no difference in the two?

 

[Old TexMex]

[TexMex, I don't mean to be disagreeable, but I have to point out something.
If the right to OC is so fundamental to the Second Amendment, why are we having to get it passed by every legislature in every state? Seems to me ''somebody'' doesn't consider it as such, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion...]


No disagreeability and your observation is valid.

Quite a number of SCOTUS rulings have been the result of states being contrary to the established rights of the Constitution, not just 2nd.

History is replete in the examples of states denying federally established unalienable rights. There was a civil war over( in part) one such issue.

Heller is one example, as is McDonald v Chicago in recent years re: the right to keep and bear.

There are interpretations at variance. Again, many, many more states allow OC, based on the 2nd Amendment, than those that prohibit OC.

Your point does indeed beg the question, "why the resistance to OC?".
Upon what logic reason and evidence do only six states, including Illinois, NY and Texas treat it's residents differently than the other forty four?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

OCT has a gallery of photos. Not exactly what some would have you believe.

Young and old alike.... standing for their Constitutional rights.

Here's a few examples... many more pics in the link... cops... disabled vets... lots of pretty women... and a few fat camo goobers too. Are they so much different looking than everyone else in America?

http://www.opencarrytexas.org/1_10_Photo-Gallery.html

 

[ladder13]

Now that's one scary bunch of people right there.

 

[GerSan69]

"Your point does indeed beg the question, "why the resistance to OC?".
Upon what logic reason and evidence do only six states, including Illinois, NY and Texas treat it's residents differently than the other forty four?"
Thanks for your reply...
Frankly, I think the resistance is more political than logical. The opposition tends to be centered among the "we know what's better for you" end of the political spectrum in those places, and that end is in charge in many of these areas... has for generations. You all know the arguments, I won't rehash them. Anti-gun arguments tend to mesh with other views by these folks, like their ideas about crime prevention and so on, so it's a big portion of their overall agenda that's against us. They have the general support of the media, so the anti point of view is disseminated as though it's the mainstream line of thought, with pro-gun views portrayed as aberrant. It's a tough obstacle to overcome. It doesn't help that law enforcement in these places tends to be squarely against many gun rights; having the "professionals" openly disdainful of armed citizens carries a lot of weight with lawmakers. And finally, as the Chicago mayor's actions since losing McDonald illustrate, these people are not deterred by losing. They simply attack from a different angle. If that doesn't work, they'll stall for time or outright defy the courts.
Also: the low-information voters and those that vote in lock-step with their chosen ideology will blindly vote strictly by party. Hard to overcome that sort of Stepford behavior. (Edit Phil )
As for Texas... makes no sense, unless the anti side has enough votes in the Legislature to keep OC tied up. But there again: politics over logic.
Maybe not an entirely satisfactory answer, but those are the things I've seen for myself.

 

[jack the toad]

I'm pro-choice, either or, OC/CC, don't really care kinda guy.
Here in Okla we have both and even though I'm pretty much exclusively CC, choice is a good option.
Given all that, I wouldn't venture out having a long gun in hand or slung just to prove a point or because I can, etc.
Personally, I don't think it's good for the cause.

 

[ladder13]

................ And finally, as the Chicago mayor's actions since losing McDonald illustrate, these people are not deterred by losing. They simply attack from a different angle. If that doesn't work, they'll stall for time or outright defy the courts....................

And THAT'S a very good point. People have put so much faith in SCOTUS coming to the rescue on much of these anti gun laws. Realistically, how does the SCOTUS enforce their rulings? They have no police force or army to enable.
The anti's just keep coming up with new restrictions and roadblocks knowing it will take years if not longer to get a ruling from a higher court.
When confronted with a loss in the courts they stall and delay, forcing more lawsuits and court action. Who can make them obey court rulings?
And let's not forget how political the courts have gotten.

 

[Smoke]

Anyway... let's not hijack this thread with Colorado's move backward... or Magpul's move to Texas.

I'm not the one that brought it up

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Now that's one scary bunch of people right there.

Funny.

Ya know... after all the insults and smears are washed away, the only thing left are fact-based arrguments against open carry. I haven't seen many. Have you?

 

[Badquaker]

Funny.

Ya know... after all the insults and smears are washed away, the only thing left are fact-based iarguments against open carry. I haven't seen many Have you?

Funny is not the word I would use. I find the insults and smears from fellow firearm enthusiasts to be very sad.

 

[Smoke]

Does it have to be black and white? Can I be pro Open Carry and still think carrying a rifle in Wal Mart is bad idea?

If we want fact based arguments it's a fact that almost every business in which open carry protests or rallies have taken place has responded by banning firearms from their premises.

Someone once defined insaniity as repeating the same action over and over again and expecting different results

 

[Pasifikawv]

While I am not a big fan of open carry, I am glad that I can. In rural areas while engaging in outdoor activities (hiking, biking, backpacking), I will sometimes OC. In public spaces where others are more likely to be around, I only CC. It is unfortunate that TX, which has much rural, open space, does not allow the OC of handguns. Hiking, Biking, Backpacking, etc. isn't very comfortable or practical with a IWB CC'd or with slinged long-gun OC'd.

There are two primary groups in TX making news. TX Open Carry and TX Open Carry-Tarrant County. TXOC-TC splintered off of TXOC. When TXOC does open carry events, they contact both the location the event will be held and local law enforcement. Often, they will do an advanced press release as well. TXOC does not want to "shock and awe" but rather to highlight the absurdity in TX State law that allows the OC of long-guns but not handguns - even for those with a carry permit.

TXOC-TC does NOT give any advance notice to locations or local LEO. Their members will OC long guns whenever and wherever they can. They are far more "in your face" than TXOC and intend to "shock & awe" the general public.

TXOC, with its advanced notices to localities and LEOs for well-organized and polite events, with signs and information in addition to the participants, etc. is not the problem.

The wingnuts of TXOC-TC that insist on drawing negative attention and shocking soccer moms in the local eatery are doing more harm than good. One or two individuals carrying an AR platform at the low ready -not part an organized, controlled event; no notice to the locality/eatery; no notice to local LEO's; no signs, information, or any indication of WHY they are OCing long guns; etc.- isn't helpful.

 

[Badquaker]

Does it have to be black and white? Can I be pro Open Carry and still think carrying a rifle in Wal Mart is bad idea?

I can agree with that statement, even if Walmart might be one of the best places to be armed.

If we want fact based arguments it's a fact that almost every business in which open carry protests or rallies have taken place has responded by banning firearms from their premises.

Is it the act of open carrying, or the counter protest by the anti's that has the business scared? I understand the business decision, they want to keep the largest clientele. Cracker Barrel figured that out quick regarding Phil Robertson. Chickfila had their issue as well. When pro-2a people unite, the same will occur.

Someone once defined insanity as repeating the same action over and over again and expecting different results

The anti-gun crowd has been singing the same song for a long time. They play the long game, look past defeats, and take every small win they can. The tactics for those wishing to preserve are different from those wishing to win at all costs.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Does it have to be black and white? Can I be pro Open Carry and still think carrying a rifle in Wal Mart is bad idea?

If we want fact based arguments it's a fact that almost every business in which open carry protests or rallies have taken place has responded by banning firearms from their premises.

Curious question. Sure you can. For that matter, I haven't seen anyone here advocate carrying ARs into Walmart.

There have been open carry rallies and such at many businesses, probably many hundreds across the nation over the years. How do you know that amost all now prohibit firearms from their premises? How many businesses have had OC events on their property in Texas over the past year, how many now forbid all fireams? I'd be interested to see this fact.

How did the Richland Hills TX Home Depot open carry rally go over the weekend? From my understanding, not only did Home Depot not run them off, corporate was advised ahead of time and didn't try to prevent it. According to this story, there was a group that opposed OC there too. But it appears instead of hurling insults at each other they shook hands and had a conversation. One of the OC rally organizers claims that they rarely have negative encounters. Is that untrue?

'Open carry' supporters rally in North Richland Hills | khou.com Houston

 

[ladder13]

Does it have to be black and white? Can I be pro Open Carry and still think carrying a rifle in Wal Mart is bad idea?

If we want fact based arguments it's a fact that almost every business in which open carry protests or rallies have taken place has responded by banning firearms from their premises.

Someone once defined insaniity as repeating the same action over and over again and expecting different results

There was an article in USA Today just about this. Take it for what it's worth, it's newsprint. The article stated that NONE of those establishments banned all OC, just the OC of long guns. Mentioned were Starbucks, Jack in THE Box and Brinker Int'l owner of Chile's.
Maybe you can name some that have banned all OC or all guns period..

 

[phantom9]

There was an article in USA Today just about this. Take it for what it's worth, it's newsprint. The article stated that NONE of those establishments banned all OC, just the OC of long guns. Mentioned were Starbucks, Jack in THE Box and Brinker Int'l owner of Chile's.
Maybe you can name some that have banned all OC or all guns period..

Well, the restaurant in NC comes to mind. They banned all weapons, concealed or not, and then proceeded to get robbed at gun point. Though, they may change that now...

Granted, that wasn't texas....

 

[Thunderhawk88]

Failure to exercise your rights is de facto loss of those rights.

That was the chant in Kalifornistan til they outlawed OC.
Scaring the **** out of the sheep will not work out in our favor.

 

[The Big D]

Don't like it at all.

Though I adhere to whatever laws are in effect wherever I may be, I will never open carry. Have gotten along just fine for the last thirty-nine (39) years with very few folks knowing I was carrying a gun. Never felt the need to 'compensate' as some of the knuckleheads in the news surely are, IMHO.

Be safe.

 

[GerSan69]

Funny.

Ya know... after all the insults and smears are washed away, the only thing left are fact-based arguments against open carry. I haven't seen many. Have you?

Phil, I see your point but the antis don't use logic and any facts they use are either distorted or fabricated.
And really, any "smears" in this thread (actually, I think it's good old-fashioned getting a laugh at somebody else's expense) are very mild compared to the hysterical rhetoric of the antis.

I don't expect total agreement, but just consider, at least, that a little ribbing might just keep somebody from repeating an action that could cause yet another business to bar gun owners from their premises....