Is this .38 Special ammunition sufficient?

[Naphtali]

My close friend, Laurie, has no interest in carrying on of my Freedom Arms Model 97 45 Colt revolvers when we are woods walking in Lolo National Forest, home to a large number of bears. Oh, I omitted that she is terrified of bears, having had close experience with three black bears. Her EDC is a 640-1 with Remington .38 Special +P SWC-HP-PB (aka FBI Load). We still have about 800 cartridges of our initial 1600. When in the woods she carries a Ruger SP101 4.25-inch barrel. She is extremely reluctant to carry more powerful ammunition. While she hasn't said it in so many words, She will not use any different ammunition of any sort, such as hardened SWC-GC or plain base of the same bullet weight. Frugal, or foolish??

Okay, I think there might not be a problem if I can determine whether shooting this FBI Load in the SP101 4.25-inch, or even her 640-1 will reliably penetrate a bear's skull at "desperation range", her desperation range being probably more distance than most. About the only things I can think of being helpful are: relatively heavy bullet weight; relatively lower MV retarding bullet's designed-in expansion, enhancing penetration.

This .38 Special ammunition, while not ideal, is it sufficient?

 

[robertrwalsh]

My opinion, for what that might be worth to you, is that this would be AT BEST a marginal or sub-marginal load for an adult bear. Of course she might get lucky, but I wouldn't bet on it. Has she considered bear spray? I have heard that with a marginal weapon/cartridge combination at very close range your best shot is thru the bear's open mouth while he is "talking" to you but I suspect you would have to be a very cool customer to attempt that.

 

[mikerjf]

While statistics show that almost any round of any caliber has a decent chance at discouraging a bear, there's really no reason to handicap yourself here.

She's already shooting a round that kicks plenty; the equivalent outdoorsman-style load (at least a 158g hardcast semiwadcutter) will not kick any harder and will penetrate much deeper.

And as mentioned above, spray should also be an option. This sounds like a great solution would be for her to carry the 640 and spray, and you carry the real gun.

 

[riverrat38]

For bear, she doesn't want hollow points like the FBI load. Maybe not enough penetration. Buffalo Bore makes a 180 gr "hot" .357 Mag bear load, and what I carry in my M60 Pro, a 158 gr Kieth type solid cartridge plus P called the "Outdoorsman". Also, a hot cartridge that should give energy levels up in the 400 FP range in the 4" revolver. Both of these options are designed for good penetration.

73,
Rick

 

[THE PILGRIM]

My Buddy Milt shot a treed Black Bear several times with Win Silvertip 357.
They mushroomed on contact with limited penetration.
He was shooting a 4 inch Colt Trooper.
I also prefer heavy solids like the 158 Grain mentioned.

 

[16thVACav]

Penetration, not expansion, would be my chief concern, so I'd recommend full metal jacket.

 

[steelslaver]

If I was going up against a bear with a 38 spl and had my choice of ammo I would chose a heavy hard cast SWC or FMJ. But, it is often difficult to convince some people that their gun/ammo selection is not the best. The odds of her actually needing to use it are slim, the odds that a better bullet would change to out come are not as slim, but still on the slim side.

But, I have about the same slim odds and carry a 45 colt with hard cast 255gr SWC

 

[IronSkillet]

So we have a five shot snub-nose revolver, a very stressful situation with a agitated bear, and we are concerned if by choice the ammunition is adequate, is that correct? There maybe a lot of different better options for this type of scenario probably the most important thing to have will be nerves of steel! Breathing sight alignment and trigger control no worries.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Don't expect to see bears where I walk, but they are around and sometimes get agressive.
I carry BB 180gr hardcast in 3"686 for woods walks, but if I come across Federal's 180gr Swift A-Frame round, I'll switch to that, based on comments from an Alaska guide.
He said that particular bullet design penetrates well but also "stings" more than solids, to momentarily distract a charging bear enough to allow more follow-up shots.
Sounds reasonable.

Buy Swift A-Frame for USD 63.99 | Federal Ammunition


Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

 

[Racer X]

While statistics show that almost any round of any caliber has a decent chance at discouraging a bear, there's really no reason to handicap yourself here.

She's already shooting a round that kicks plenty; the equivalent outdoorsman-style load (at least a 158g hardcast semiwadcutter) will not kick any harder and will penetrate much deeper.

And as mentioned above, spray should also be an option. This sounds like a great solution would be for her to carry the 640 and spray, and you carry the real gun.

she has the spray ready, and you have the proper pistol. If the spray fog doesn't work, start firing immediately.

 

[Pisgah]

Until someone posts, "Here are the bears I have shot in self-defense, in the head, with a handgun, and here's the best ammo," I will just stick with my own ignorant opinion, thank you.

 

[Jessie]

It sounds like she's dead set on that round only, which I would not recommend for bear, so you need to concentrate on what you're carrying since it looks like you'd be responsible for bear defense.
I would try and convince her to carry bear spray too, with wind training.

 

[johngross]

Does she have a small dog?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BCdjFGcn5Y"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BCdjFGcn5Y[/ame]

 

[JDinAZ]

Personally in bear country I'll be toting a 44 mag 629-3 5"

But I saw an interesting article on AmmoLand a while back about documented successful defenses against bear attacks with many different calibers. It's kinda a good read. Tells the story of each instance and what caliber was used. Some even used a 22

Handgun or Pistol Against Bear Attacks 104 cases, 97% Effective

 

[delcrossv]

38? For bears?

This: 38 Special +P 158gr. Keith Black Cherry Coated Hard Cast Hunting Ammo

 

[John Patrick]

I would look at Buffalo Bore's 38spl 150gr hard cast wadcutter load.

Penetration is needed, wadcutters penetrate well while leaving a .358" hole. Moderate recoil, which should suit your friend.

 

[BSA1]

Actually all she needs is a reliable .22 pistol. When a angry beat approaches she just shoots the O.P. in the knee and then runs away leaving him behind.

Does make for a short term relationship though.

The O.P. ammo is a good choice for dealing with two legged predators.

 

[Doug M.]

I am in the group that votes with hard solid rounds, preferably SWC. In reality, if I really thought I might surprise a bear, my first choice would be a different path, and my second would be a long gun with solids, like a 12 gauge with slugs.

 

[Rpg]

I suspect your friend has developed some skill shooting the FBI load: sounds like she's shot a lot of it (800 rounds).

Unless she's going to shoot as much of the ammo recommended above (Buffalo Bore or similar ilk), she's much better off with what she's confident and skilled with.

Much better to hit with the FBI load than miss with a theoretically better load.

 

[WR Moore]

Jokes aside, a hard cast bullet of the same weight/velocity would be the way to go. Or, possibly a soft point of the same weight & velocity. A soft point driven at .38 Spl (even +P) velocities isn't likely to expand all that much and will still give her penetration. One box isn't gonna break the bank......I hope.

Having seen .38s (OK, they were RNL) skid on human skulls and fail to penetrate, I'd be rather hesitant to advise head shots. Unless she's been studying exactly where bear brains are and is patient enough to be sure of bullet placement.