Itemized Reloading System COST

[HorizontalMike]

More Great Stuff

Wow, the last handful or so of responses are full of nuggets of experience that I will treasure for some time. In an odd way I am glad that I am having a money crunch for the time being. This has forced me to stop and think in an in depth way without all of the impulse buying that is usually attached with new/renewed hobbies and such.

FWIW, I have been playing with some of the online Load Manuals in PDF, trying to learn about all the details of the different powders, their burn rates, and about the manufacturers. When comparing the compatible powders for .222 rifle with the .357 revolver, these seem to be mutually exclusive with no commonality with regards to powders. I know all this sounds like nothing new to you all, but this does allow me to begin to come up to speed without losing the contents of my wallet in the process. For that, I am very grateful, and very happy about finding the S&W Forums! Thanks!

I appreciate the advice about not trying to automate too much of the process since that can often lead to mistakes being overlooked and such. And the links of the various equipment, big and small, makes a huge difference in planning out how to eventually accomplish this in best order.

BTW, I have started wandering around on CL for reloading materials. Not much at the moment but will keep my eyes pealed.

 

[rwsmith]

If you are like me.....

I would not be able to spend a lot of money at once and would have to buy things as I could afford them. I'm on a disability income and that's the way it has to be. Fortunately, I've been doing this long enough that I have what I need, even though some of my operation is a little bogus, like using Lee powder scoops and a balance beam instead of a powder measure or even making my own scoops, which I will get one day. But what I have in the meantime at least works.

 

[Bugkiller99]

Quoting Horizontal Mike "In an odd way I am glad that I am having a money crunch for the time being. This has forced me to stop and think in an in depth way without all of the impulse buying that is usually attached with new/renewed hobbies and such. "

Your absolutely right. I faced the same problem, more from a lack of availability. Took me several months to get enough stuff to load 1 caliber. Gave me lots of time to learn. You will benefit from this waiting period immensely.

 

[rwsmith]

You can made a decision.....

FWIW, I have been playing with some of the online Load Manuals in PDF, trying to learn about all the details of the different powders, their burn rates, and about the manufacturers. When comparing the compatible powders for .222 rifle with the .357 revolver, these seem to be mutually exclusive with no commonality with regards to powders. I know all this sounds like nothing new to you all, but this does allow me to begin to come up to speed without losing the contents of my wallet in the process.

You are on the right track. Learning just takes some time and effort and saves you $$ knowing what is suitable for you and what isn't. And I just find this stuff to be plain fascinating.

PS Some powders are very versatile, but it's a stretch going from a small bore bottleneck rifle cartridge to a medium straight wall pistol cartridge. You will end up with 2 powders for .357 and .222

 

[Fishslayer]

BTW, I have started wandering around on CL for reloading materials. Not much at the moment but will keep my eyes pealed.

The internet is your friend. While it's essential to cross reference and bounce one data or opinion against multiple sources you will soon be able to spot trends and your BS detector will self calibrate to a fairly high degree of accuracy.

Lots of people jumped on reloading during the Community Organizer's rise to power & even more after Sandy Hook. A lot of that stuff is showing up for sale. Do your homework and know what things cost. Best case would be able to buy locally FTF but it's not hard to research a seller. I've done a lot of trading/buying/selling & only been burned once. In that case my research was incomplete and I wasn't as skeptical as I should have been. The signs were there.

Chances are there's a gun forum for your area/state. Find the good one. They'll probably have a reloading forum like this one and a "For Sale" forum. Flat rate boxes are perfect for shipping lead & brass.

Start collecting brass now, even calibers you don't plan to reload. They can be used as trade bait. When I was getting started I bought a lot of used brass.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Please RANK these Reloading Manuals

OK guys,
I figure that I at least need to spend some $$$ immediately, on some good reading/learning material. I scanned this thread and these are the manuals that I saw referenced.

QUESTION(s):

• If I could only afford ONE manual, what would it be?
• I if I could afford to buy TWO, what would they be?
• Is there enough redundency that there is no real need to have them all?

Lee Precision Modern Reloading 2nd Edition New Format: Richard Lee: 0734307902773: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51hJYAO9NzL.@@AMEPARAM@@51hJYAO9NzL

The ABCs Of Reloading: The Definitive Guide for Novice to Expert

Amazon.com : Speer 9515 Reloading Manual : Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/318NE8VCezL.@@AMEPARAM@@318NE8VCezL

Amazon.com : Lyman 49Th Edition Reloading Handbook : Gunsmithing Tools And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xvB4vqFkL.@@AMEPARAM@@51xvB4vqFkL

 

[Bkreutz]

BTW, I have started wandering around on CL for reloading materials. Not much at the moment but will keep my eyes pealed.

The only problem with CL is that they prohibit guns and loaded ammo. This wouldn't in itself be a problem but some anti gun folks take this to mean anything related to guns (parts, reloading equipment and supplies) and flag anything related to guns. Since the flagging system is automated (nobody really reviews them, the ads just disappear after a number of unique flags are thrown) so the ads disappear. I've gotten a bunch of stuff from CL but one has to be quick because the ads disappear pretty quick. Another option is Armslist ARMSLIST - Firearms Classifieds which is a CL copy for arms related items. I've found more stuff there because the ads don't get flagged. (unless they're illegal). Good luck in your quest. I'm finding that right now, powder is the toughest component to find. (at least powder that I want). I'm going to have get creative in a couple of months if I don't find some W231/HP38 or Titegroup by then.

Edit: Just saw your post (appeared while I was posting). I'd probably go with the Lee one. IMO it's the most basic. The others assume differing amounts of experience. If I had to get 2 it would be the Lee and the Lyman. (and no I don't have a fascination with the letter "L")

 

[tlay]

I would buy the Lymans 49th and Lees manual. I have both. If you are going to buy a Lee reloader it is important to buy their manual. It has a lot of reference to their loader. The Lyman is an all around good manual. If you shoot lead it has a lot of recipes for it. But the more manuals you have the better. Especially if you load their bullets. Speers manual has a lot of reference to their bullets. The same goes for a lot of other manuals. The ABCs of reloading is a good manual to help learn on.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Order is In!

Two votes for both Lymans 49th and Lees manual.

DONE! Found the Lee Hardback used for just under $50 and the Lyman's Paperback was $20 new. Free shipping via Amazon and no sales tax on the Lee book.

Econo shipping so I'll have them in about two weeks. Then I can dig into them figuring things out...

 

[rwsmith]

Many reloading manuals......

Many reloading manuals are tied to using one particular product. i.e., the Speer book only contains data for Speer brand bullets. Something like the Lyman manual is more universal.

This is not really a problem since when you change a component in a load that you know will work, you drop back 10% and start building up the load again.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Accurate WishList?

Here is my "longer" term wishlist for reloading the .222 Remington. Putting .357 reloads on hold for time being.

Found the MatchKing Bullets on clearance and can save quite a bit per box, so looking at enough for 3,000 rounds (6-boxes)
NOW $71.65 (Clearance Price)
WAS $93.99
Save $22.34 (23%)

I am trying to listen and look for quantity discounts when/where possible. I may just order the Sierra MatchKing Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 53 Grain Hollow Point first, because of the deep discount in the clearance price. I am going to have to be patient and wait to afford the rest over time.

QUESTION: Please take a look at my WishList, aka "Shopping List", and tell me if I am missing anything. Appreciate suggestions.

Already have many hand tools and digital calipers, clamps, etc.

 

[Bkreutz]

Here is my "longer" term wishlist for reloading the .222 Remington. Putting .357 reloads on hold for time being.

Found the MatchKing Bullets on clearance and can save quite a bit per box, so looking at enough for 3,000 rounds (6-boxes)
NOW $71.65 (Clearance Price)
WAS $93.99
Save $22.34 (23%)

I am trying to listen and look for quantity discounts when/where possible. I may just order the Sierra MatchKing Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 53 Grain Hollow Point first, because of the deep discount in the clearance price. I am going to have to be patient and wait to afford the rest over time.

QUESTION: Please take a look at my WishList, aka "Shopping List", and tell me if I am missing anything. Appreciate suggestions.

Already have many hand tools and digital calipers, clamps, etc.

Only problem I see is the "Temporarily Unavailable" next to the powder. The "Temporary" part is no longer temporary with most powders. It's the only component that has not come back on the market with any regularity.

 

[arjay]

Don't know about the gun shows in your area,but the last one I attended had several vendors with a lot of powder.

 

[rwsmith]

Clarify the bottom line Lee presses

The 'Lee Hand Loader' is a special hand tool that doesn't fit any press.

The "Lee Breech Lock Hand Press" takes standard 7/8"-14 dies like any press.

Only go the hand loader route if you need to go dirt cheap.

ANY single stage press using standard dies would be superior.


The Hand Loaders for rifles are neck size only and don't take into account trimming, headspace and other concerns of bottleneck cartridges. For just pistol, the hand loaders will work, but I'd definitely recommend some type of press.

 

[Twoboxer]

Since I thought Lumpy was dead wrong, I thought I'd put this together. After it's set up, you need no wrenches, clamps, or any of the other trivia he lists.

But I warn you, Lumpy is right in one regard . . . you will ultimately spend more if it becomes a second hobby.

And while brass can come at the start from factory ammo you shot, don't forget a significant cash investment in bullets, primers and powder in order to keep the unit cost down. If you do that, ignore those who say you cant save money unless you cast lead.

I don't know 357 or 222 - I shoot 9mm, 45, 223, and 30-06. Per round for 9mm, plated 115gr bullets cost me $0.093 today at the LGS, CCI primers were < $0.03 including hazmat shipping last week from Midway, and at 1475 rounds to the pound of HP38 cost < $0.02. That's $7.15 for a box of 50. Savings will likely be even greater for rifle.

What follows is a complete list of required materials for reloading 1 pistol and 1 rifle caliber reloading . . . including a "bench" for your press. The total cost is $536.11.

It does not include shipping from Midway (probably $25) nor Amazon ($0 if you have Prime). It also does not include sales tax which Amazon and perhaps Midway may charge depending on where you live.

I've used all of these tools. I've graduated to other presses (Hornady single stage and AP) as my volume and interest increased. The Lee scale is a real PITA to use, but it worked until I discovered what scales I really wanted . . . an RCBS 5-0-5 (Midway, $89.99) and a GemPro 250 Digital (Amazon, $122.00). Other digital scales are VERY likely to flutter, be unable to adjust calibration, and/or not give consistent weights on two consecutive weighings of the same material.

As you progress in reloading, you will learn what you like to do and what you don't like to do, and you may well replace various pieces with more expensive kit as your funding and pleasure increases. There are LOTS of lubes, and LOTS of ways to clean brass more expensively and "better/brighter/cleaner". . . and less expensive ways including DIY in a pail or a washing machine.

But rest assured the list below, plus a card table lol, is all you need to reload good ammo in the the two calibers you mentioned.


Press Kit:

Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret Press Deluxe Kit
Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret Press Deluxe Kit
219.99

If you have no bench, trust me - this thing WORKS. You can use any stable table to hold your scale and other supplies. You can even put this away when you are done.
Lee Reloading Stand
Amazon.com: lee classic turrer: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QzMUGtesL.@@AMEPARAM@@41QzMUGtesL
99.99

2 x Concrete Blocks
Home Depot et al
~$10 including gas

To calibrate te Lee scale and all future scales:

RCBS Standard Scale Check Weight Set
Amazon.com: RCBS Standard Scale Check Weight Set: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41p4OTxCykL.@@AMEPARAM@@41p4OTxCykL
27.44

For measuring case length, OAL, etc:

Lyman Stainless Caliper
Amazon.com: Lyman Stainless Caliper: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31LGLysq5gL.@@AMEPARAM@@31LGLysq5gL
18.64

For cleaning Brass ($56.62):

SmartReloader SR737 Tumbler Nano
Amazon.com: SmartReloader SR737 Tumbler Nano: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417yaOxJp8L.@@AMEPARAM@@417yaOxJp8L
20.93

SmartReloader SR405 Reloading Media Separator
Amazon.com : SmartReloader SR405 Reloading Media Separator : Gunsmithing Tools And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HAeL47EzL.@@AMEPARAM@@51HAeL47EzL
25.95

Zilla Ground English Walnut Shells Desert Blend
Amazon.com : Zilla 11678 Ground English Walnut Shells Desert Blend, 10-Quart Bag : Pet Habitat Decor : Pet Supplies@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vqmlUs88L.@@AMEPARAM@@51vqmlUs88L
9.74

For your pistol ($40.99):

Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 38 Special, 357 Magnum
Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 38 Special 357 Mag
40.99

For your rifle ($62.44) - other Turret and case prep tools are in your Kit above.

Lee Pacesetter 3-Die Set 222 Remington
Lee Pacesetter 3-Die Set 222 Remington
30.49

Lee 4 Hole, Classic 4 Hole Turret Press Turret
Lee 4 Hole Classic 4 Hole Turret Press Turret
9.99

Lee Case Length Gage and Shellholder 222 Remington
Lee Case Length Gage Shellholder 222 Remington
4.99

Hornady Unique Case Lube 4 oz Tub
Hornady Unique Case Lube 4oz Tub
4.99

Frankford Arsenal Universal Reloading Tray 50-Round Plastic Blue (2)
Frankford Arsenal Universal Reloading Tray 50-Round Plastic Blue
2 x 5.99 = 11.98

 

[HorizontalMike]

The Picture is Becoming Clearer

... And while brass can come at the start from factory ammo you shot, don't forget a significant cash investment in bullets, primers and powder in order to keep the unit cost down. If you do that, ignore those who say you cant save money unless you cast lead.

Yes! I absolutely understand the need to scale up my purchases in order to "save" money in the long run. THAT is the reason I am looking at buying up 3-4,000 (6-8 boxes) of the .222 Match King "clearance" bullets. Saving over $22/box adds up. Just hope they stay in stock into January, when I can start freeing up some funds.

Same goes for powder and primers. That part is going to be tricky with all of the back-ordering and out-of-stock situations. This may be hard to avoid having more than one $27 HazMat fee attached to an order. Going to have to keep the fingers crossed on that one...

BTW, I changed the lube over to the tub listed, and probably should consider the weight scale check set just for good measure. I will start with the balance scale and go from there.

I already have a ~5-600lb woodworking bench in my woodshop that I can attach things to (has 3in thick Ash top). It is not going anywhere, though I want to be able to remove the reloading equipment when I am woodworking.

Indeed, if I am calculating correctly, setting up both calibers completely, (excluding bullets, brass, powder and primers) should cost between $900--$1,000. AFTER that, I should be able to start "saving" by buying those excluded supplies in bulk or on sale when they come up. Estimating that to be another ~$1,500 or so to be able to reload ~3,000 rounds of each .222 and .357 calibers. FWIW, looking at 500rds of brass in each caliber for reloading stock.

Does all of this sound reasonable, if/when I can swing it, gradually over the next 6-10 months? Looks like powder alone will be months of waiting. Thinking of 8lb for each caliber...

If I get lucky on this, it looks like I could get the cost down to ~50cents/round with a ~$2,500 investment with only reloading the brass 5-6 times. That works out to 50rd/month of each for 6yr. I can be happy with that!

 

[RonS]

Buying ammo for brass really gets expensive, and in these days, how likely are you to find two boxes of the same brand in the same month? During the summer I shot several GSSF matches, one match I drove several hours to shoot one entry because of ammo constraints. Two others I shot different brands and bullet weights of ammo in the same match because I could not find more than 100 rounds of any one kind. Only during the last match did I get enough ammo to shoot three entries with one brand of ammo, and only because a friendly Walmart employee sold me ammo a couple of weeks in a row on my way to work, before the official "start the feeding frenzy" time.

I would start buying Starline brass when I could and stick with it. I had great luck with it back in the day when I loaded .357 and .44M. My second choice is Federal, I shoot a good bit of Federal Champion in my 9mm and reload them with good success.


If I had to replace my gear right now I would buy the following:

4 Hole Lee turret press kit.
Lee 4 Hole Turret Press Auto Index Value Kit

Extra 4 hole turret for each caliber.
(When I could afford it, I would buy an Autodisk measure for each pistol caliber, I use the Lee Perfect PM for my .308.) If you use the autodisk, get the Lee riser, it makes life much easier.

You need a pilot for the case trimmer for each caliber, they are only a few dollars, the cutter is in the kit above.

Couple of loading trays.

Two modern loading manuals. Things have changed, powders have changed, how pressure is measured has changed. I like the Lee and Speer but plan to add a couple more. I always like manuals that work together, like one powder maker and one bullet maker, you get slightly different takes on things.

This summer I splurged on an Hornady electronic powder scale. A stray cat got into the garage overnight and knocked several things off the bench trying to open the window over my loading bench, including my balance beam scale. Shakes the confidence a bit so I got a backup. I find that I don't trust it as much because I can't see it working, but it provides a useful check for the old Redding. Impressive scale to survive a fall like that.

I bought a lined notebook with 5 dividers and use it to track my loads. I know they sell reloading logs but this works for me and keeps me on track.

Lots of more toys and convenience items but unless I am missing something that should be enough for a good start.

 

[Bkreutz]

I already have a ~5-600lb woodworking bench in my woodshop that I can attach things to (has 3in thick Ash top). It is not going anywhere, though I want to be able to remove the reloading equipment when I am woodworking.

I have my press on my woodworking bench. I mounted everything to a 1" thick piece of plywood. I have cleats underneath that line up with the vices on the bench. Theoretically I could move the whole setup to use the bench but the reloading stuff is becoming more permanent all the time.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Dual Purpose Benches

I have my press on my woodworking bench. I mounted everything to a 1" thick piece of plywood. I have cleats underneath that line up with the vices on the bench...

Cool! That is exactly what I am hoping to do, clamp a mounting board down onto my existing bench when reloading and then be able to remove it for woodworking. At least I have the "bench" part covered... Now just need all of the rest of the stuff...

FWIW, the trays in the center are removable and that opens up more clamping opportunities for a solid base.

 

[Bkreutz]

Nice Bench