J-frame: Enough?

Is a S&W .38 Special Snub Nose enough for concealed carry?

  • Yes

    Votes: 311 92.6%
  • No

    Votes: 25 7.4%

  • Total voters
    336
  • Poll closed .
I would love to have a hi cap 9mm but darn it, I just can't buy every thing I want. Next time I go to STL I'm taking my usual S&W 638 AND my Taurus 605.
Why did God give me two front pockets if He didn't want me to carry guns in them?
Or else I could put the S&W in a pocket and the Taurus on my hip.
Someone had the Taurus PT111G2 on sale the other day for right at $200. I won't claim it's the worlds best gun but they hold 12+1, have an acceptable trigger, and decent sights and reasonable combat accuracy. They are pretty light, carry well AIWB, feel good in the hand and seem to have a durable finish. I like them a lot when bought cheap but I essentially consider them disposable. Taurus won't sell many or most parts requiring a return to factory for repair. By the time you add shipping, parts and service you should probably just buy another one instead. It's a great gun if you have to lock it in your car frequently. If it gets stolen it's much less painful than having the nice Kimber, etc. go missing. Plus you don't cry when it gets scratched.

I'm not saying it's the best budget option but IMHO it's a very good budget option.
 
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As long as you're confident in your ability and comfortable with it, I don't see the problem. Only you know your ability, not anyone on this forum.
 
It would be great to have a compiled list of ALL the self-defense shootings from year to year - including accurate information on how many rounds were fired. That would enable us to calculate percentages and determine "optimal" (and by default, less than optimal) number of rounds to carry. But even then it would STILL depend on what type of situation one found themselves in as to whether they were sufficiently armed, and that is an *unknowable* variable.

Even in quiet, low-crime areas the possibility of a situation that requires more than 5 rounds exist. Conversely, crime ridden areas have many situations that are solved by LESS than 5 rounds. So who can say?

In my opinion what it all comes down to is that personal decision on how much risk one is willing to take on 5 rounds being enough. My hope is that we will never know if we're right or wrong.

I'm very interested in stats, but we also have to be cautious about what they do and don't cover and how they are gathered. Most are severely lacking in providing the details which are important to get a better understanding as to what's actually occuring and is probable.

In the Claude Werner study(5,000 incidents)he states..."The average and median number of shots fired was 2. When more than 2 shots were fired, it generally appeared the defenders initial response was to fire until empty." So, it sounds as if firing those rounds wasn't actually necessary, but the reaction of a panicked shooter. Regardless it was in a very few number of incidents that it occurred.

Werner also says reloading occurred in 3 incidents, but mentioned "one of those involved killing an escaped lion with a .32 caliber revolver." Are the other 2 as irrelevant and ridiculous? And what are his sources?

https://tacticalprofessor.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/tac-5-year-w-tables.pdf

Another thing to keep in mind in regard to the Werner stats is that they only cover incidents where the defender was successful.

I see the potential for needing more than five rounds being there, but it is still extremely improbable, and for me, it doesn't override the advantages that the snub revolver offers in close-quarter scenarios. It's simply a trade-off and one that I think favors the revolver. What trait(s) is more important and likely to be of advantage is the pertinent question. I do own several Glocks, but they are primarily reserved for home and hotel defense where I have more lead time and can't easily escape the situation and have to make a stand. Even so, I still wouldn't really feel inadequately armed with only revolvers.

A lot has been said about how choices should differ in high crime areas, but I don't see it that way. I travel to numerous major U.S. cities every year. I head to Atlanta in a few weeks and then onto Miami. After that St.Louis, Chicago, Nashville, Louisville, Memphis, and Cincinnati. I don't think I'm all that likely to encounter different types of crime, simply a greater chance of it compared to lower risk areas. Reactive close-quarter ambushes are still the most likely threats. If I was so unlucky to be involved in an active-shooter scenario, drive-by or get in-between a gang shoot-out, I'm probably somewhere I shouldn't have been in the first place, but regardless, I'm going to get out as quickly as possible, not hang around and engage.

And I would rather carry two airweight snubs than an auto if capacity is a nagging concern, even if that concern is not substantiated.

Considering most violence(assaults, muggings, robberies, carjackings) is perpetuated(with fists, knives, guns, impact weapons)at very close distances, reliability in that environment is paramount to me and I just don't have a lot of trust semi-autos in ECQ scenarios. And it's not a training issue or something that can be overcome IMO. Mitigated yes, but there are still glaring inherent differences between revolver and autoloaders. If someone honestly believes they can hold a #2 position for any length of time against an aggressive assailant(or two) at contact distances, they aren't living in reality. Any retention or compressed shooting position is temporary and transitory to me, but that is not how most instructors are teaching it.

In the first segment of this video, the instructor lets students actively try to disarm him. I don't know him or anything about him, but kudos, because how many instructors do you see doing this? And what I see going on is pretty similar to what I've observed over the years running ECQ force-on-force drills.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mdjUy1dHBAI[/ame]
 
Ever since reading it takes 13 rounds to stop an escaped lion I've carried an 8 round speed strip with my 6 shot 431PD.

That gives me 14 rounds of 32 h&r magnum -- so I have one extra round if I unexpectedly come upon a lion.
 
Ever since reading it takes 13 rounds to stop an escaped lion I've carried an 8 round speed strip with my 6 shot 431PD.

That gives me 14 rounds of 32 h&r magnum -- so I have one extra round if I unexpectedly come upon a lion.

...or in case you miss. ;)
 
Like the man at the carnival said..."Ya pays ya money, ya takes ya chances".
 
Care to explain?

Come on X, really? Lets see, easier to be proficient with, faster reloads, more ammo, generally flatter & easier to conceal. In just about ever situation a semi will perform better than a revo. I am a revo guy but reality sets in at some point.
The only place I could say a revo is superior is power. 41mag, 44mag & heavy 45colt, revo is king there. Even the dreaded contact shot, that is only valid if you can create less than zero space between you & the target mat'l & even then, maybe 50-50 chance the semi wont cycle. I have no problem shooting or carrying a revo but superior in today's world for a SD choice, nope.
 
This question comes around almost as often as the caliber question.
Whether any gun is enough depends on the situation which we wonder can we really prepare in the best way for.

Any gun you can shoot accurately and comfortably carry should be enough gun. If you are in a shoot out then no matter what handgun you are carrying it probably will not be enough.

In my opinion a 38 spl in a snub is enough for self protection. You possibly will not go deaf shooting a 38 spl but shooting a 357 magnum is another story. Perhaps we need think when is a gun more than enough.

Any caliber gun fired indoors is going to damage your hearing. That should really be the last thing you consider.
 
Have thought about carrying my Smith & Wesson 642 .38 Special 5-shot snub-nose revolver as my primary carry gun in a pocket holster.

How many of you think that setup would be enough for realistic self defense, or should I get a bigger gun with more capacity or a different caliber?

Thanks!

-Jay

Add a speed strip and you'll be fine.
 
Try finding evidence that it is inadequate. There are numerous stats available as well as thousands of documented individual cases of civilians using firearms in self-defense in print and video where the details are provided. You will be very hard pressed to find even a handful where a 5 shot J-frame was or would have been inadequate.

A lot of people look to police use for guidance as to what is the best handgun choice is for defensive purposes, but I just don't see the two being all that comparable since they have very different objectives and directives. It's kind of like how the self-defense martial arts and unarmed techniques I taught for civilian self-defense are very different from my police defensive-tactics program.

My goal as a civilian is to avoid trouble. I have no intent on intentially engaging terrorists or active-shooters in a long range firefight and even if I did, the current odds of being involved in such an incident are astronomically low. However, I don't see being randomly assaulted, mugged or carjacked and similar types of scenarios as being unrealistic. These events occur at extremely close-quarters, are generally reactive in nature, and I think the (enclosed hammer)snub revolver has some very positive attributes in those types of encounters that no other gun possesses. Even if I was jumped by multiple attackers, I would still want the snub due to the relatively high risk of the auto malfunctioning in that environment, even if most criminals will flee as soon as the gun is deployed or after the first shots are fired. And if they don't, the revolver will almost assuredly go bang all five times as well as offering excellent inherent weapon retention against gun grabs.

If I had to choose one gun for (all) defensive purposes, I would definately choose a small revolver. And if I had nagging underlying worries over capacity, I would simply carry a second one and have absolutely no concerns at all.

MisterX SUMS IT UP, PRETTY WELL......

AFTER RETURNING FROM VIETNAM IN 1969, I CONTINUED TO EDC A FULL SIZE 1911, WITH 2 SPARE 10 ROUND MAGS, FOR 30 YEARS, IN CIVILIAN LIFE. 31 ROUNDS OF JHP IN .45 ACP, SHOULD BE MORE THAN ENOUGH, FOR ANY SERIOUS SHTF SITUATION.......

NOW RETIRED, AND NO LONGER LIVING IN THE INNER CITY, I CARRY A M686+, IN A CROSSDRAW BELT HOLSTER, BACKED UP WITH A M642, IN A MIKA POCKET HOLSTER, DURING COLD WEATHER......

BOTH ARE STUFFED WITH SPEER GOLD DOT, .38 SPL+P, FOR SHORT BARRELS. I ALSO CARRY 12 EXTRA ROUNDS IN 2 BIANCHI SPEED STRIPS. THAT'S A FULL RELOAD FOR BOTH GUNS.....

IMHO, DURING THE HOT WEATHER, THE M642 IS ADEQUATE, WITH THE 2 SPEED STRIPS OF EXTRA AMMO......
 

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Try finding evidence that it is inadequate. There are numerous stats available as well as thousands of documented individual cases of civilians using firearms in self-defense in print and video where the details are provided. You will be very hard pressed to find even a handful where a 5 shot J-frame was or would have been inadequate.

A lot of people look to police use for guidance as to what is the best handgun choice is for defensive purposes, but I just don't see the two being all that comparable since they have very different objectives and directives. It's kind of like how the self-defense martial arts and unarmed techniques I taught for civilian self-defense are very different from my police defensive-tactics program.

My goal as a civilian is to avoid trouble. I have no intent on intentially engaging terrorists or active-shooters in a long range firefight and even if I did, the current odds of being involved in such an incident are astronomically low. However, I don't see being randomly assaulted, mugged or carjacked and similar types of scenarios as being unrealistic. These events occur at extremely close-quarters, are generally reactive in nature, and I think the (enclosed hammer)snub revolver has some very positive attributes in those types of encounters that no other gun possesses. Even if I was jumped by multiple attackers, I would still want the snub due to the relatively high risk of the auto malfunctioning in that environment, even if most criminals will flee as soon as the gun is deployed or after the first shots are fired. And if they don't, the revolver will almost assuredly go bang all five times as well as offering excellent inherent weapon retention against gun grabs.

If I had to choose one gun for (all) defensive purposes, I would definately choose a small revolver. And if I had nagging underlying worries over capacity, I would simply carry a second one and have absolutely no concerns at all.

I agree with what is written above, just wanted too add a couple thoughts.

One thing we were taught as Police Officers was to have a partner/backup If a situation developed. As we get older, and are seen by predators to be more vulnerable, not being alone in a situation is important. Even two "Old Coots" are a less predictable target than one.

While as a LEO I was sent in search of trouble I can easily avoid as a civilian, the most rounds I ever fired as an Officer (out of a 5 shot revolver) was 12. As a civilian I have never drawn my EDC.
 
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I have carried a J Frame for several years now and feel confident with it. It wears a laser grip and if I feel like it/want, I carry a second J Frame as backup.

However, I'd rather carry my Kahr P45 in a thumb break and as soon as my custom holster order gets in, I hope to. *I am also carrying my 1911 Commander PC more since I have the Safariland ALS for it as well.

It all comes down to what you can carry and shoot well. For myself, I no longer carry a NAA mini revolver and I think .38 and 9mm NATO are "basement."
 
Have thought about carrying my Smith & Wesson 642 .38 Special 5-shot snub-nose revolver as my primary carry gun in a pocket holster.

How many of you think that setup would be enough for realistic self defense, or should I get a bigger gun with more capacity or a different caliber?

Thanks!

-Jay

This subject's a well worn path. More capacity's only an advantage if you hit your target. The Kehoe Brothers-Ohio State Patrol shootout for example, (it's on You Tube). The patrolman emptied his hi-cap pistol at close range, zero hits. If a 642's what you've got, practice, get good with it. Not just shooting, practice efficient reloading. Your 642's +P rated. There are several brands of self-defense ammo available that will do the job,,,, if you do your part. Oldest rule of shooting, the gun's only as good as the guy, (or girl), behind it.
 
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