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Sounds like I poked two 357/1000th of inch holes through something with one shot then.
J Frame Snub Owners: What is your favorite carry load?
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Sounds like I poked two 357/1000th of inch holes through something with one shot then.
In my M642, 148gr wadcutters. In my M60, Remington158gr +P semi-wadcutter hollow points....a la FBI.
yugolovr
Member
I just test fired Hornady 110 grain standard pressure critical defense in my 3 inch 36 nd today. It'll be my new carry load for said gun.
Lanyard Stretcher
Member
My reasoning is that hollow points don't expand at j-frame velocities, I go for penetration and accuracy. I shoot 148gn. DEWCs that are standard velocities. low recoil and plenty of penetration.
Mike
Mike
gwpercle
Member
Lyman #358432 or NOE #360-160-WC PB
160 grain Wadcutter ( this bullet is designed not to be loaded flush or deep in the case ) loaded to 38 special +P level .
bullet sized .357"
The following charges are +P (maximum charges) start low , work up slowly and do not exceed .
5.6 grs. Unique @ 998 fps (+P)
5.2 grs , 231/HP38 @ 956 fps (+P)
My two most accurate loads with this bullet . The NOE mould is available in Hollow Point , cast to bhn 8 or 9 , this makes a wicked HP load .
The most accurate bullet in all my 38 / 357's , for target , tin can or self defense ... it is about the only bullet I cast and shoot nowdays .
Most shooters are not aware of how accurate and hard hitting this design can be . If you ever get the chance ...try them out !
These loads stay in my J-Frame , accurate and hard hitting (they like to shoot clover-leaf groups) I can't ask for anything else .
Gary
160 grain Wadcutter ( this bullet is designed not to be loaded flush or deep in the case ) loaded to 38 special +P level .
bullet sized .357"
The following charges are +P (maximum charges) start low , work up slowly and do not exceed .
5.6 grs. Unique @ 998 fps (+P)
5.2 grs , 231/HP38 @ 956 fps (+P)
My two most accurate loads with this bullet . The NOE mould is available in Hollow Point , cast to bhn 8 or 9 , this makes a wicked HP load .
The most accurate bullet in all my 38 / 357's , for target , tin can or self defense ... it is about the only bullet I cast and shoot nowdays .
Most shooters are not aware of how accurate and hard hitting this design can be . If you ever get the chance ...try them out !
These loads stay in my J-Frame , accurate and hard hitting (they like to shoot clover-leaf groups) I can't ask for anything else .
Gary
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smoothshooter
Member
148 grain HBWC handloads at an estimated velocity of about 750 - 800 fps.
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I've been doing a lot of research on this subject recently. Based on videos I've seen of Gel tests, meat target tests, & what my J frames shoot to POI/POA, I've settled on the Golden Saber 125 gr. +P & the Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr. +P FTX. I find the Golden Saber to have more recoil & blast than the Hornady.
Below is some of the info. I've found on the subject & why I've made my choices. But everyone is free to choose & carry whatever they like based on their own research, experiences, and conclusions.
Based on the testing I've seen, the current production 158 gr +P SWCHP's usually don't reach enough velocity for expansion out of a 2" revolver (or 1.88" J frame). The offerings from Federal, Remington, & Winchester may also be watered downed from what used to be offered back in the 70's & 80's? And what most felt was an effective SD load.
One source I read likened the stopping power of these 158 gr. rounds to .45 acp .230 gr. ball ammo. And this info. was based off street effectiveness when this was a popular carry round. Although I'd venture to say this was probably out of a 4-inch gun. There's nothing wrong with that, but I just think there's better choices with modern bullet design.
Buffalo bore offers a 158 gr. SWCHP in both the standard pressure and +P, but these run hotter than the commercial Fed, Rem, & Win offerings. And it seems the standard pressure will give you good expansion and penetration without stepping-up to the less-controllable +P version. And one source I viewed mentioned that's the velocity the big 3 use to offer these rounds in? So, if your gun likes these bullets, the Buffalo Bore Standard pressure might be a good choice.
The popular Speer Gold Dot 135 gr. +P also has been hit or miss in the gel tests I've seen. Usually, a lack of expansion when denim is used.
The 148 gr. wad-cutter seems to be a good choice for non +P guns, people who are recoil sensitive, and for a more pleasant shooting experience. These get good penetration without over penetrating. But as mentioned above, I prefer a modern design hollow point.
Other rounds that seem promising in .38 spl. +P from the testing I've seen is the Federal 130 gr. HST & the Winchester 130 gr. Ranger bonded load.
You also need to figure out where your gun hits with your chosen load. All my J frames seem to shoot high with heavier bullets. And most prefer the 110 gr. bullets. So this will also play a factor in ammo selection.
Below is some of the info. I've found on the subject & why I've made my choices. But everyone is free to choose & carry whatever they like based on their own research, experiences, and conclusions.
Based on the testing I've seen, the current production 158 gr +P SWCHP's usually don't reach enough velocity for expansion out of a 2" revolver (or 1.88" J frame). The offerings from Federal, Remington, & Winchester may also be watered downed from what used to be offered back in the 70's & 80's? And what most felt was an effective SD load.
One source I read likened the stopping power of these 158 gr. rounds to .45 acp .230 gr. ball ammo. And this info. was based off street effectiveness when this was a popular carry round. Although I'd venture to say this was probably out of a 4-inch gun. There's nothing wrong with that, but I just think there's better choices with modern bullet design.
Buffalo bore offers a 158 gr. SWCHP in both the standard pressure and +P, but these run hotter than the commercial Fed, Rem, & Win offerings. And it seems the standard pressure will give you good expansion and penetration without stepping-up to the less-controllable +P version. And one source I viewed mentioned that's the velocity the big 3 use to offer these rounds in? So, if your gun likes these bullets, the Buffalo Bore Standard pressure might be a good choice.
The popular Speer Gold Dot 135 gr. +P also has been hit or miss in the gel tests I've seen. Usually, a lack of expansion when denim is used.
The 148 gr. wad-cutter seems to be a good choice for non +P guns, people who are recoil sensitive, and for a more pleasant shooting experience. These get good penetration without over penetrating. But as mentioned above, I prefer a modern design hollow point.
Other rounds that seem promising in .38 spl. +P from the testing I've seen is the Federal 130 gr. HST & the Winchester 130 gr. Ranger bonded load.
You also need to figure out where your gun hits with your chosen load. All my J frames seem to shoot high with heavier bullets. And most prefer the 110 gr. bullets. So this will also play a factor in ammo selection.
Usually Buffalo Bore in my 442 Pro; but sometimes use Liberty Civil Defense, 50 gr, HP Fragmenting (to lighten the carry weight)
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@ Dump1567
The popular Speer Gold Dot 135 gr. +P also has been hit or miss in the gel tests I've seen. Usually, a lack of expansion when denim is used.
I did a little research on the Gold Dots as well. I concur with your assessment. Moreover, I read and noticed that the velocities were not on par with the factory ballistic data. i.e. mainly velocity. They seem a bit slower. Could it be that they were loaded to standard pressure and not the +P rating? Nevertheless, it might explain for the inconsistent performance. I am still in favor of the .38 Special GD SB +P's. As an alternative loading I have a good stash of the .357 GD SB as well.
Lastly, I might be wrong here, but it's just a guess.
The popular Speer Gold Dot 135 gr. +P also has been hit or miss in the gel tests I've seen. Usually, a lack of expansion when denim is used.
I did a little research on the Gold Dots as well. I concur with your assessment. Moreover, I read and noticed that the velocities were not on par with the factory ballistic data. i.e. mainly velocity. They seem a bit slower. Could it be that they were loaded to standard pressure and not the +P rating? Nevertheless, it might explain for the inconsistent performance. I am still in favor of the .38 Special GD SB +P's. As an alternative loading I have a good stash of the .357 GD SB as well.
Lastly, I might be wrong here, but it's just a guess.
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Cal44
Member
I carry 6 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense.
But it's 32 h&r magnum in my 431pd.
Plus a speedstrip with 8 rounds as a reload.
But it's 32 h&r magnum in my 431pd.
Plus a speedstrip with 8 rounds as a reload.
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It seems manufacturers have their own standards for what they consider +P. And barrel length used in their testing will play a factor. Not to mention some of the velocity inconsistencies I see during the chrono testing.
As an example, is Lucky Gunners testing of the 130 HST's. He got adequate expansion & penetration out of his 2-inch Kimber. But just moving down to his 1.88" J frame, the penetration dropped below the 12" FBI recommendation.
And if you follow his testing, the .357 GD did well and was considered one of their low recoiling .357 loads. Unfortunately, when I tested it in my 640-1, it didn't hit to point of aim. This seems to be one of the problems I've run into in testing recommended loads.
My next test for my 640-1 for a light recoiling .357 will be the 125 gr. Golden Sabers to see if they hit to POA. But I also know Gun Sam on You Tube was getting bullet pull in his gun and didn't recommend these rounds.
Obviously, bullet penetration & expansion is just one part of the equation. Shot placement and testing your gun with your chosen ammo is also very important. Along with training, proficiency, & confidence with your chosen handgun.
I've never been a very good J frame shooter but watching Paul Harrell (You Tuber) shoot his with ease, made me want to get out and work on it. And finding the best ammo for the J was part of that journey.
Baltimoreed11754
Member
Hornady Critical Defense. I also use it in .380 caliber for my Colt Mustang.
And just to add, also based on my research, 9mm in a snub seems to be the way to go. It's traveling 200-400 fps faster than a .38 spl., but only around 75 fps slower than a .357 mag out of the same length barrel. And it doesn't seem to have the blast and recoil of .357 mag. It's on par in velocity with guns like the Glock 43, S&W Shield, & Sig 365. And there's a ton of good SD ammo choices.
Unfortunately, S&W doesn't make a J in 9mm anymore. I'd be all over a lightweight J in 9mm. But for now, I'll have to settle on the Ruger LCR.
Unfortunately, S&W doesn't make a J in 9mm anymore. I'd be all over a lightweight J in 9mm. But for now, I'll have to settle on the Ruger LCR.
gwpercle
Member
Don't look now ... but that other gun company , name starts with a "T" and ends with "aurus" makes a 5-shot snub nosed model 905 9mm and it comes with full moon clips .
In 2000 I wanted a snub nose , 5 shot , 45 acp and S&W didin't make one byt dealer showed me a Taurus model 455 , 45 acp - 5 shot , 2" barrel , all stainless steel ... Just the ticket ... I bought it and don't have one bad thing to say about it .
Extremely well put together , tight tolerances and will shoot clover leaf groups all day long ... this is the most accurate 45 acp I own and I will never let it get away from me ...I Love it !
Check out the M905 9mm , the quality may just surprise you ...
It's a lot better than what a lot of Taurus Bashers keep yapping about ... my 455 is top of the line and it's 23 years old ...
I shoot it a lot because I reload 45 acp and don't like chasing down the fired cases ... the 455 drops them all in your hand ... another plus for the revolver .
There is also an Article in the Nov / Dec issue of American Handgunner ...a good read on the m905.
Gary
sigp220.45
US Veteran
@ wood714
Nice combination of J Frame & Ammunition Selection. Dig the "No-Lock" 642, and the Winchester Bonded JHP choice. Apparently, the Winchester Ranger Line is hard to come by these days. I use to have a quit a bit of it back in the day. A great performing round for sure. Thanks for sharing the photo of your set-up! ;-)
Nice combination of J Frame & Ammunition Selection. Dig the "No-Lock" 642, and the Winchester Bonded JHP choice. Apparently, the Winchester Ranger Line is hard to come by these days. I use to have a quit a bit of it back in the day. A great performing round for sure. Thanks for sharing the photo of your set-up! ;-)
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I usually get mine from Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore.
In their Vintage and Police Trade in Ammo.
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