J frame spring kit

[p_jackson]

Bought a 442 in March and gave it 1000 to 1500 dry fires with snap caps. Nice gun. Then I bought a 640 with an Apex spring kit installed. The 640 breaks around 8# and the 442 breaks past 12#+. Looking at the Apex spring kit and the Wilson Combat spring kit to put in the 442.
Please share any pros or cons of either kit.
Thank you for your replies. Pete

 

[malph]

I tried the Apex kit in my M&P340. It indeed reduced the trigger pull but I start experiencing occasional reliability issues.

Seems like these kits work in some guns and not others.

I backed out of the kit and went back to stock. A little stouter pull but it goes boom now. Every time.

 

[Rpg]

Dry fire is a common method of trying to lessen the trigger weight on J frames.

Unfortunately, it doesn't produce a measurably lighter trigger pull. It may smooth things out a bit, but unless your gun has uneven surfaces or burrs it doesn't help.

It may improve your grip strength, leading to a perceived lighter trigger, but it doesn't measurably lighten the trigger pull.

 

[71vette]

I've used Wilson but I just replaced the rebound spring. Didn't want to risk ignition issues. I've done it to my 442 and my 360. That made them just about as good as my older stock 60.

The other option would be to just get some lighter rebound springs from Wolff.

 

[rockquarry]

I don't dry fire; the benefits are insignificant in comparison with shooting ammo. As for improving the trigger, etc., I've always had excellent results becoming accustomed to the trigger as is, straight-out-of-the-box. No aftermarket spring kits for J-frames or anything else.

I've had many J-frames over many years, none of which have had the internals molested or "upgraded". They've been 100% reliable with factory ammo or any handloads using any primer.

An alleged improved trigger is no substitute for developing good shooting skills. Try that first.

 

[Eddietruett]

Wilson. Zero problems

 

[smoothshooter]

I tried the Apex kit in my M&P340. It indeed reduced the trigger pull but I start experiencing occasional reliability issues.

Seems like these kits work in some guns and not others.

I back out of the kit and went back to stock. A little stouter pull but it goes boom now. Every time.

Did you also install the longer firing pin that comes in the Apex kit in your gun?
I am having the same problem with light strikes after installing an Apex kit. Going to put the factory mainspring back in and leave the lighter Apex trigger return spring in the gun.

 

[sophie]

I've used Wolff Gunsprings and had good luck with them.

 

[Paul105]

I generally leave everything factory stock when it comes to springs. Broke down and tried the Apex kit in my 340 PD. Experienced occasional light hits so I went back to the factory hammer spring (left the Apex extended firing pin and rebound slide spring in the gun). No more light hits but trigger return a bit sluggish (probably not noticeable to others).

FWIW,
Paul

 

[pete950]

My opinion I like the apex, but never had an ignition problem when I also install the apex extended firing pin.

 

[H Richard]

I know the Wilson spring kit mainspring is 8 Lb, but what is the actual original spring weight? Is it around 11-12 lb?

 

[Old cop]

Got my first J Frame for off-duty carry in 1968 & learned to shoot it (we had to qualify w/an off duty gun) the way it came from the factory. I'm not an engineer and don't want to risk problems when/if I really need to defend myself.

 

[rockquarry]

Got my first J Frame for off-duty carry in 1968 & learned to shoot it (we had to qualify w/an off duty gun) the way it came from the factory. I'm not an engineer and don't want to risk problems when/if I really need to defend myself.

Yes, but many have an aversion to simple logic.

 

[p_jackson]

Thanks for all the replies. I was urged to dry fire with snap caps by a handgun instructor to improve muscle memory holding the hammer prior to break and smooth out my double action pull.
Pete

 

[Paul105]

I know the Wilson spring kit mainspring is 8 Lb, but what is the actual original spring weight? Is it around 11-12 lb?

According to Wolff, 8.5 Lbs is factory standard. J Frame 22s factory standard are 12.0 lbs.


From Wolff Website:

Hammer Springs

Hammer Springs (mainsprings)

Reduced Power...: 8 Lb.
Factory Standard.: 8.5 Lb.
Extra Power.........: 9 Lb.


Note: Models 317, 650, 651 have a 12lb rated hammer spring.

Paul

 

[upcountry]

I've used Wolff in several guns and never had a problem

 

[malph]

Did you also install the longer firing pin that comes in the Apex kit in your gun?
I am having the same problem with light strikes after installing an Apex kit. Going to put the factory mainspring back in and leave the lighter Apex trigger return spring in the gun.

Yes. The longer firing pin was used.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

No problems

APEX Tactical Carry action kit (#103-106) installed in (3) J-frames.

.

 

[Old cop]

Pls understand I'm not calling anyone out who modifies their J Frame springs. I'm not mechanically inclined and would likely foul up any attempt to change much of anything beyond grips or painting the front sight. To each their own . . . .

 

[surfgun]

I have used wolff and Wilson spring kits. Slightly prefer the Wilson kits. Took the standard mainspring and put it my 317. No issues.

 

[Mike-4]

I have used wolff and Wilson spring kits. Slightly prefer the Wilson kits. Took the standard mainspring and put it my 317. No issues.

I have a couple of 317s, did the spring kits improve the trigger? Any reliability issues? I just assumed the kits were for J frame 38s and not rim fire.

Regards

 

[hardluk1]

I used the apex kit in a s&w 360J for my wife . Nice trigger pull weight just under 8lb DA and high 2lb SA pull and tested with reloads using wolf small rifle primers . No issues so far but round count low .

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

Another geezer, long retired cop here. Been shooting J frames for 50 years. Yeah dry fire the hell out of it. Don't mess with the springs. That can bite you in the butt should you ever shoot someone. Yes, I know all about tried by twelve.

As a academy and department FA instructor I've testified in Grand Jury's about this stuff. Enough said. Go do whatever you want.

 

[hardluk1]

Sgt.buzzard Dry fire the hail out of it can work when your healthy and in good physical condition and have the time to just dry fire that revolver but like many old LE experts there Box of knowledge can be limited !!

Older folks may have physical limits to deal with . Also gun companies use to have skilled people that assembled parts to a tighter spec even for production handguns with a more consistently and smoother trigger function that has less variation in pull weight than found today with S&W 11lb to 15lb spread on there DA/SA revolvers but others have the same problems .

MY wife is 67 5'-2" small physically and strength level does not allow here to smooth out a DA trigger pull that can take thousands of trigger pulls. So much for your common sense knowledge .

I know a few older men and women that carry J frames that s&w did there trigger tune up for them and what s&w custom shop Can give you is the same as I've done at home with after market parts . Hopefully you will never need to carry a m&p EZ just to be able rack the slide or need a revolver with a lighter trigger pull to be able to shoot it proficiently!!

So sgt Maybe if your ever called to offer so called expert advise in the future You pay more attention to why a factory lightened or aftermarket lightened trigger might be needed to shoot well .

 

[vintage40s]

I am 80 and got a 642-2. The trigger pull was very hard for me so I got an Apex kit which helps a lot.
Duty/Carry Spring Kit for J-Frame Revolvers

 

[pjstreng]

I installed apex kits on the five J frames I have. I had intermittent, albeit infrequent, light primer strikes in three of the five. I reinstalled the factory hammer springs but left in the apex firing pins and rebound springs in all of them. The trigger pull wasn't as nice as with the full kit, but reliability was back to 100 percent.

 

[DixieRanger]

Lighter smoother pull sounds good on revolver but pay $$ to try see if solid function...will let be as is with zero FTF.

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[Sgt. Buzzard]

hardluk, as I said, " Go do whatever you want"

But the fact of the matter is, if you can't draw from concealed smoothly and quickly then place a few shots accurately into center mass at a close distance under extremely high pressure, you're done.

FACT. Criminals practice taking away weapons in the prison yard. If you can't pull the trigger on a stock Smith, what on earth makes you think a light trigger pull is going to help?

FACT. That gun is going to be ripped out of your hand and shoved up your...Then used by said criminal in other crimes.

FACT. You would be much better off with a can of bear spray, high OC content, and giving them a face full. It is much easier to use than a gun and a high degree of accuracy is not needed. Caution, CN or CS is not really effective.

FACT. Look at and re-read the post's where lighter springs have led to failure to fire due to light primer strikes.

Now, go out and do whatever you want.

 

[DixieRanger]

Sgt. Buzz like your post. Yep get, use what'ca want. Just a thought after your last post. If time comes trigger pull tuff...carry a trusted semi with practice. Proximity to perp?

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[Sgt. Buzzard]

Dixie you bring up a valid point with the auto loaders. The yeah but part comes in with working the action. Either pulling the slide back and slingshot release or using the slide release/stop.

I worked as police academy and department FA instructor for 18 years. Now retired I work on a civilian range as RSO. There's a big problem with new shooters learning the manual of arms with auto loaders and many cannot work the slide without practice moving both hands, close to the body. A weak grip and heavy recoil springs for heavy loads is one problem. Another is the slide lock/release. Watching people trying to lock a slide back is horrifying with all the muzzle flashing they do.

While a DAO revolver has a 12# trigger its operation is quite simple compared to the autos. Even absolute beginners understand point and shoot. Think about it. If you can't pull a 12 lb. trigger what are you going to do with some guy that's spent the last two years working out in the prison yard? A 9lb. trigger is going to save you? What total B/S.