J-Frames and 25yard qualifications

[Dutch87]

Thanks to Justice Thomas we just got carry rights in my state!
The hitch: We have to qualify with carry guns, including making some 25 yard shots.

After spending many hours reading some of the threads here (A huge thank you to all the guys who have shared their thoughts and compiled knowledge on this board over the years!)

I'm thinking of:
- A Model 36 classic
- A 637 performance center
- A 360PD

Something light, pocket-carry worthy, and with a hammer (for purposes of longer shots, SA would make it easier at my "skilled but not Jerry Miculek with a J-frame skilled" shooting level).
Budget isn't a dealbreaker for me - I would prefer to buy new if I could.

In my state we cannot carry with hollow points, so I'm thinking I might actually be best served with wadcutters for practice AND carry, making the recoil of a 360PD more bareable.

Thoughts?

 

[Rpg]

The problem with the guns you’ve listed is the exposed hammer: they are a mess to pocket carry.

The guns that offer a hammer and pocket carry ability are the various shrouded hammer guns such as the 638.

Using wadcutter ammo is a great idea! It’s comfortable to shoot and performs very well.

 

[lawandorder]

Another reccomendation for enclosed or shrouded hammer including 40, 49, and the stainless steel versions of the same. You will be glad you purchased a steel revolver when you are shooting it. Steel also greatly reduces the chance of a cracked frame.

You must practice frequently with a J frame to achieve any level of skill and confidence.

Wad cutters would work both for range and defense, especially if your level of skill gets adequate with shot placement. That and luck are good things to have along.
God bless and stay safe.

 

[OLDSTER]

25 yard shots off hand ( I assume) with a J Frame. The target is a wood door-right ??

 

[Protocall_Design]

Qualify in a barn. Then you can hit even the narrow side every time.

 

[rockquarry]

25 yard shots off hand ( I assume) with a J Frame. The target is a wood door-right ??

It takes more practice with a J-frame, but the guns have 25-yard capability, especially if you're using two hands.

 

[sigp220.45]

I used to have to shoot the old FBI RQC with my Model 36. I don’t remember how many shots were from the 25 but it was enough to fail you if you missed most of them.

If I was you I’d find a nice Model 37 and shoot wadcutters single action from the 25. The gun will do it if you can. The hammer isn’t a problem with a good pocket holster.

 

[rockquarry]

Thanks to Justice Thomas we just got carry rights in my state!
The hitch: We have to qualify with carry guns, including making some 25 yard shots.

After spending many hours reading some of the threads here (A huge thank you to all the guys who have shared their thoughts and compiled knowledge on this board over the years!)

I'm thinking of:
- A Model 36 classic
- A 637 performance center
- A 360PD

Something light, pocket-carry worthy, and with a hammer (for purposes of longer shots, SA would make it easier at my "skilled but not Jerry Miculek with a J-frame skilled" shooting level).
Budget isn't a dealbreaker for me - I would prefer to buy new if I could.

In my state we cannot carry with hollow points, so I'm thinking I might actually be best served with wadcutters for practice AND carry, making the recoil of a 360PD more bareable.

Thoughts?

If you think you'll like a J-frame with a full hammer, try it. Many, maybe most advocates of bobbed hammers, partially exposed hammers, and hammerless models haven't tried carrying such guns and those with full exposed hammers for any length of time and doing a "snag" comparison.

Many assume the worst with a full exposed hammer and that's mostly flawed Internet "conventional wisdom". While there's nothing wrong with the 638 or other similar S&Ws, eliminating "hammer snag" is more of a "sounds good" thing than it is something real. Try carrying a regular 36 with full hammer for several years and count the number of times the hammer actually snags. Might be surprised. The single-action feature is very useful for those who occasionally shoot paper targets for enjoyment and skill improvement but lack the 100% gunfighting obsession when it comes to shooting.

 

[biku324]

I qualified from 1982 to 1997 with my M49 and standard 158 grain LSWCs or, later, factory 158 grain +P LSWCHPs. Twenty-five yards was not a big problem for a reasonably competent shooter.

 

[Piwo]

Hmmmm....State says you must qualify at 25 yards. I guess they think you can be justified in shooting people at 25 yards. I wonder if you could use that in your defense if you actually had to shoot someone that far away.
Just a random thought as I sit here.....

 

[10Mad]

638 with Crimson Trace grips ��. Best of all worlds.
Hammer guns are ok with a little practice. Fingers go on grips thumb goes on hammer whether drawing from a pocket a belt holster or an ankle.

 

[Benton Quest]

Most would set aside using SA for any defense situation. 25 yard shots are quite doable if you work on your DA technique.

Sent from my SM-A025V using Tapatalk

 

[Dutch87]

The problem with the guns you’ve listed is the exposed hammer: they are a mess to pocket carry.

The guns that offer a hammer and pocket carry ability are the various shrouded hammer guns such as the 638.

Using wadcutter ammo is a great idea! It’s comfortable to shoot and performs very well.

I'm not at all against the 638, I really should put that on the list!

Another reccomendation for enclosed or shrouded hammer including 40, 49, and the stainless steel versions of the same. You will be glad you purchased a steel revolver when you are shooting it. Steel also greatly reduces the chance of a cracked frame.

You must practice frequently with a J frame to achieve any level of skill and confidence.

Wad cutters would work both for range and defense, especially if your level of skill gets adequate with shot placement. That and luck are good things to have along.
God bless and stay safe.

That's why I'm considering the 36 to be honest.
While it would be heavy for pocket carry - on the many threads I read on this board (BIG thank you to you guys again!), I've read that it's just so nice to shoot (for a J frame) that guys will hold on to them.

Because carry wasn't a thing in my AO, I think pocket carry will be how I cut my teeth and learn how to carry.
The 19.5oz empty weight might be a bit much?

But It's still on the list.

 

[Der Verminator]

Thanks to Justice Thomas we just got carry rights in my state!
The hitch: We have to qualify with carry guns, including making some 25 yard shots.

After spending many hours reading some of the threads here (A huge thank you to all the guys who have shared their thoughts and compiled knowledge on this board over the years!)

I'm thinking of:
- A Model 36 classic
- A 637 performance center
- A 360PD

Something light, pocket-carry worthy, and with a hammer (for purposes of longer shots, SA would make it easier at my "skilled but not Jerry Miculek with a J-frame skilled" shooting level).
Budget isn't a dealbreaker for me - I would prefer to buy new if I could.

In my state we cannot carry with hollow points, so I'm thinking I might actually be best served with wadcutters for practice AND carry, making the recoil of a 360PD more bareable.

Thoughts?

Is pocket carry a must?

I carry my J-frame inside waistband in great comfort.

I can fire it fast and accurately single action and the hammer is not a problem.

And 25 yards is no problem at all........and while this is a Model 60, the regular Model 36 Three-inch heavy barrel with fixed sights would do just as well. They are real fine weapons.

A flat nose Keith-type SEMI wadcutter would serve you well.

 

[Nevada Ed]

It depends if you have to qualify with your carry ammo.

Since no HP ammo, that means that WC is called for.
Most people can do very well with the light 148 gr BBwc or HBwc at 25 yards with practice.

The heavier 158 gr lead bullet has a little more recoil, to master but can
be doable in standard ammo.

A 3-4" barrel has a longer sight radius, if you need to aim but some just
use the front sight and learn to master their grip and trigger squeeze, to qualify.

Good luck on finding a revolver.

 

[Dutch87]

I used to have to shoot the old FBI RQC with my Model 36. I don’t remember how many shots were from the 25 but it was enough to fail you if you missed most of them.

If I was you I’d find a nice Model 37 and shoot wadcutters single action from the 25. The gun will do it if you can. The hammer isn’t a problem with a good pocket holster.

I kept reading this in the threads about M36s, which is why I didn't totally dismiss the idea of a hammered gun ^

After getting to dryfire a 642 and 442 at the fun store, I came away thinking that for a heavy DA trigger, it was not as terrible as I thought it would be - but that it would also be a challenge at the longer qualification shots.

Perfect carry guns, perfect for the actual use in the real world - but, have to qualify to carry.

If you like a J-frame with a full hammer, don't dismiss it without trying it. While there's nothing wrong with the 638 or other similar S&Ws, eliminating "hammer snag" is more of a "sounds good" thing than it is something real. Try carrying a regular 36 with full hammer for several years and count the number of times the hammer actually snags. Might be surprised.

Hmm.

I'm guessing that if I wanted to carry in a pocket without a holster (some do for short trips - I likely won't), it might be more of a concern, but with a holster in the pocket, less so - but could snag on pockets at the final bit of a "Fast" draw?

 

[lppd4]

Practice will allow you to make those longer shots. How many shots are required at the 25 yard line? My model 60 will make those shots all day long if I do my part.

 

[Dutch87]

I qualified from 1982 to 1997 with my M49 and standard 158 grain LSWCs or, later, factory 158 grain +P LSWCHPs. Twenty-five yards was not a big problem for a reasonably competent shooter.

I'm glad this thread brought out experiences like these ^ !

On the youtube, one would think that the J-frames are "10 yards and in" guns. And I would agree that is their best application.

But, aside from Jerry Miculek, "can/do normal guys make hits to 25 yard targets at the range" was something I didn't see a ton of talk about.

25yards with the FBI load, nice shooting.

Hmmmm....State says you must qualify at 25 yards. I guess they think you can be justified in shooting people at 25 yards. I wonder if you could use that in your defense if you actually had to shoot someone that far away.
Just a random thought as I sit here.....

Right?

In reality land, the gunowners here basically know the first Concealed carry person to defend themselves (unless they're an old lady or something) is probably going to get the book thrown at them.

We're all of the mind: Be 150% sure you're in the right and you had to do it to survive, they might jail you anyway.


The Indiana food court mass shooter being stopped at 40 yards, is that .01% event that makes me wonder.
Maybe being able to hit further with a carry piece isn't a terrible consideration.

 

[Dutch87]

638 with Crimson Trace grips ��. Best of all worlds.
Hammer guns are ok with a little practice. Fingers go on grips thumb goes on hammer whether drawing from a pocket a belt holster or an ankle.

This is what had me thinking - thanks to you guys and this fine board, it seems like the right CT grips that cover the backstrap can bring the perceived recoil down on these light J-frames.

I realized something. I love the look of the 360PD, the ~11-12oz weight makes it a "I never leave home without it" weight. The front sight is very good as far as J-frames go.

I figured, if I put a CT 405 grip on it, it won't ruin the concealability and will take the recoil down.
I'm firing wadcutters in it, so the impulse goes from ".357? are you insane?" down to probably snappy, I presume.

It's rated for 357 so it's overbuilt for the purpose, and supposedly, if I read you guys right, the scandium gun frames are somewhat tougher than the alloy aluminum ones. (But that the titanium cylinders are sensitive to light/fast bullets and certain cleaners).

This made me think hard about the 360.
With price as no object, the light weight would make it carryable, 360PD recoil with wadcutters might be tolerable

 

[Dutch87]

Most would set aside using SA for any defense situation. 25 yard shots are quite doable if you work on your DA technique.

Sent from my SM-A025V using Tapatalk

I get you on that, I do think Mas Ayoob has a point.

BUT, To me the SA hammer has 2 uses.
1) Qualification course at 25yards, it would almost certainly be easier for me to qualify.
The odds of having to use that in the wild are probably a decimal point.

2) The decimal point, mass shooter, rifle, 20yards +

Use 2 is theoretical, but Use 1 is something I would have to do, just to carry.

Weird right?