J-Frames and 25yard qualifications

[mod57]

I shoot ALL my handguns at 25 yds routinely. Some times at 50. I only shoot at distances shorter than 25 if the range simply doesn't have the distance or a specific distance is required. Shooting at 25 yds is easy, at least it should be.

 

[edl]

After pressure from NJ firearms rights group, The NJ Association of Rifle and Pistol Clubs, the state has dropped the 25-Yard Target Distance, shooting from the kneeling position, and the timed fire from their CCW qualification. Some of the shooting time limits that they had were pretty short for an average person. For example at the 7 yard line they had to draw and fire 3 rounds in 4 seconds.

If you are taking the test with a revolver it needs to be fired double action. If you are shooting a D/A automatic the stings of fire must start with the gun in the D/A mode.

Here is a link to the current qualifications:
https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/CCARE_Protocol.pdf

 

[AJ]

After pressure from NJ firearms rights group, The NJ Association of Rifle and Pistol Clubs, the state has dropped the 25-Yard Target Distance, shooting from the kneeling position, and the timed fire from their CCW qualification. Some of the shooting time limits that they had were pretty short for an average person. For example at the 7 yard line they had to draw and fire 3 rounds in 4 seconds.

If you are taking the test with a revolver it needs to be fired double action. If you are shooting a D/A automatic the stings of fire must start with the gun in the D/A mode.

Here is a link to the current qualifications:
https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/CCARE_Protocol.pdf

When I was teaching at Naval Station Long Beach, Ca in the late 1980's, our detectives were not happy with me. All the DOD Police had to draw from holsters when they qualified. The detective's would show up with belt holsters for their J Frames. Well I knew they all carried in ankle holsters. So, I made them qualify from the ankle holsters.......they were smoked! Especially the 5'7" 250 pound detective who could not see his ankles! Also took the DOD Chief of Police's M36 from him as he could not qualify with it, he was ticked to have to wear a 4 inch S&W on a duty belt. That 36 was a status symbol to him.

 

[edl]

Requiring civilians to shoot from kneeling was a violation of the Americans with Disabilities act for anyone that had a physical limitation that prevented them from doing so.

I believe the original civilian shooting requirements were based on those of members of the NJ State Police. They have rigid and extensive training and standards that exceeds that of most NJ police departments. It was completely unrealistic to expect average civilians to meet those standards.

NJ has an anti-gun governor and many anti-gun politicians and administrators. The difficult test was a means of preventing average people from getting their CCW permits.

 

[AJ]

Requiring civilians to shoot from kneeling was a violation of the Americans with Disabilities act for anyone that had a physical limitation that prevented them from doing so.

I believe the original civilian shooting requirements were based on those of members of the NJ State Police. They have rigid and extensive training and standards that exceeds that of most NJ police departments. It was completely unrealistic to expect average civilians to meet those standards.

NJ has an anti-gun governor and many anti-gun politicians and administrators. The difficult test was a means of preventing average people from getting their CCW permits.

Could we just make NJ and Calif. islands?

 

[Jim Watson]

I shot the long form but without kneeling with my late Uncle’s Charter Arms Pathfinder, double action for all strings. I dropped one shot at 15 and three at 25. 92%.
Note that you don’t have to hit anything at 15 yards to pass with 80% on the short form.

 

[Walter Rego]

In order to qualify with a J frame as a CCW weapon in my county the requirement is to fire five shots at 15 yards, reload and fire five more at 10 yards, and reload and fire five more at 7 yards. You shoot the longer distances first. All shots have to be double action, fired standing and offhand.

The target is a standard B-27 silhouette. You have to keep 11 of the 15 shots within the seven scoring ring or less. There is no time limit although I imagine the instructor would stop the test if he thought the shooter was really struggling.

I have fired my Model 640 out to 25 yards and the mechanical accuracy is there but getting a good sight picture and shooting it double action are the limiting factors. At 7 yards there is no problem putting a cylinder full into the 8 ring and smaller. But as the range increases and under less than optimal lighting conditions the groups open up quickly.

 

[Shrek Of The Arctic]

My angle of the discussion...

I carry a 638. Polished action, spring kit, extended firing pin and plugged Hillary hole. Honestly, a 642 would have been just as well...maybe better. I really just kinda liked the shrouded hammer look and figgered it didn't hurt nuthin' so....chose that.

Grand irony is that I don't care a lick about thumb cocking it. I've shot all my double action revolvers enough that I no longer gain any real accuracy by single action.

I don't think ill of the exposed hammers, I just don't personally gain anything from that myself.

As far as wadcutters go, I'd be fine with them for an initial load, but I'd sure want something more round and easy to load in my speedloader/ speed strip.

On the pocket carry, I'll admit it's what I do most of the time with my J frame, but it has it's weak points. Primarily drawing from any position that doesn't have your legs directly under you. I figgered that one out while trying to draw from being seated i

On my gun, those Pachmayrs are a bit of a chonk, but I like the way they feel. Alaska is a constitutional carry state anyways, so I don't really need Special Agent 007 concealability, just a little discretion.

 

[Cal44]

I find my 3" j framed (m36, m60, and m37) will fit in the pocket of some of my cargo pants.

I use a Mika pocket holster specifically made f or a 3" J.

I have a set of Bianchi lightning grips, brand new in box I'd like to put to use

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

... All the DOD Police had to draw from holsters when they qualified. The detective's would show up with belt holsters for their J Frames. Well I knew they all carried in ankle holsters. So, I made them qualify from the ankle holsters...

DoD Police is a joke to begin with and ankle holsters were so 1960. JMHO after 40+ years as a LEO.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I find my 3" j framed (m36, m60, and m37) will fit in the pocket of some of my cargo pants.

I use a Mika pocket holster specifically made f or a 3" J.

I have a set of Bianchi lightning grips, brand new in box I'd like to put to use

Mika pocket holsters are the best. I have been using them forever. Great product and great service.

 

[AJ]

DoD Police is a joke to begin with and ankle holsters were so 1960. JMHO after 40+ years as a LEO.

I was a member of a Fleet Antiterrorist Security Team (F.A.S.T.). We were assigned to teach and assist the different Naval Stations in security matters, and training. Firearms fell under our purview for both training and qualification. DOD was what it was, and not much more. When we wanted back up we could call on the FAST Company and have a whole company of Marines to provide security. Ran a drill on the Naval Station using LASO's SEB folks. Gave the Navy a real eyeopener as to what their capabilities were and how lacking they were.

 

[Model 15-4ever]

Good news about New Jersey CCW... those original requirements were ridiculous for the armed citizen.

I guess I am old old school. Back in the day at my agency... we had to qualify from 50 yards in with revolvers. Designed for full-size service guns, it was indeed challenging with the 2" barrel J-frame. It was a timed 60 round course, and for 5-shot J frames included 10 rounds at the 50 yard line (prone and standing barricade, including weak-hand) and 15 rounds (including kneeling barricade weak-hand) at the 25 yard line.

I remember shooting a Model 649 for qualification once and only missing a single shot weak-hand at 50 yards, for a score of 98.3%. Didn't do that too often!

There were two alternate qualification courses that eliminated the 50 yard line stage, and all 50 rounds were fired from 25 yards in. The more popular one for J frames consisted of 5 rounds in 10 seconds from the kneeling barricade position at 25 yards, fired twice.

Now retired, I still do my own "qualification" with the 2" barrel revolvers starting at 25 yards - 10 rounds with reload in 30 seconds. I also will fire them at 50 yards to check POI with my carry ammo.

Realistically, even 15 yards is beyond the range of most self-defense shootings. I do believe in time limits for my personal practice, but the problem with them from a CCW qualification viewpoint is safety. If I was in charge I wouldn't impose a time standard for CCW.

 

[JimCunn]

"The problem with the guns you’ve listed is the exposed hammer: they are a mess to pocket carry".

I've been pocket carrying a J-frame with exposed hammer for 60 years. Haven't snagged one yet. When should I expect it to become a problem?