J-Frames and 25yard qualifications

[Dutch87]

Is pocket carry a must?

I carry my J-frame inside waistband in great comfort.

I can fire it fast and accurately single action and the hammer is not a problem.

And 25 yards is no problem at all........and while this is a Model 60, the regular Model 36 Three-inch heavy barrel with fixed sights would do just as well. They are real fine weapons.

A flat nose SEMI wadcutter would serve you well.

Those are some nice looking guns man!

So in my state I don't know ANYONE who had one of the rare elusive carry permits. I'm "the gun guy" of my friends and family, more a 1911 fan, though I have one 586 I absolutely friggin LOVE.
I was holding out for a colt python, but I held and dryfired the 586 and that was it. Underrated gun.


Here's my thinking on pocket carry.
I'm a TOTAL novice to carry, as is eeeeeeeeeveryone around me. Wardrobe, dressing around the gun, IWB placement - Either my clothes or bodytype don't work well with it. I can't find a comfortable place for it.

If I had to step up to a shoulder holster, I'd rather skip up to a fullsize gun.

County depending, we may be limited to carrying 2 or 3 guns. So a pocket carry gun is a VERY good gun to use one of the slots on .

I think I'd be more comfortable adjusting to it, just the idea of carrying. Less worried about a shirt coming up over a handle/grip, things like that.

I'm sorta easing myself into the water.

There's also concerns that places might ban carrying there, and the state probably wants your gun unloaded in the car.
I figure a revolver is best to easily dump the cylinder vs constantly chambering and un-chambering rounds in auto-pistols.

 

[Dutch87]

It depends if you have to qualify with your carry ammo.

Since no HP ammo, that means that WC is called for.
Most people can do very well with the light 148 gr BBwc or HBwc at 25 yards with practice.

The heavier 158 gr lead bullet has a little more recoil, to master but can
be doable in standard ammo.

A 3-4" barrel has a longer sight radius, if you need to aim but some just
use the front sight and learn to master their grip and trigger squeeze, to qualify.

Good luck on finding a revolver.

I'm kinda thinking the best route is a light wadcutter for practice, and I think the underwood coated hardcast wadcutter for carry!

 

[Dutch87]

Practice will allow you to make those longer shots. How many shots are required at the 25 yard line? My model 60 will make those shots all day long if I do my part.

Here's one of them -


"This is not a beginner course! You will be required to demonstrate safety, familiarity, and accuracy. It is pass or fail.
– No holster needed
– All shooting from the ready position
– 50 rounds per firearm
– FBI Q target

– 24 rounds at 7 yards
– 14 rounds at 10 yards
– 6 rounds at 15 yards
– 6 rounds at 25 yards
For a total of 50 rounds. Must hit at least 40 rounds out of 50 (80%)"

 

[rockquarry]

I'm glad this thread brought out experiences like these ^ !

On the youtube, one would think that the J-frames are "10 yards and in" guns. And I would agree that is their best application.

But, aside from Jerry Miculek, "can/do normal guys make hits to 25 yard targets at the range" was something I didn't see a ton of talk about.

25yards with the FBI load, nice shooting.



Right?

In reality land, the gunowners here basically know the first Concealed carry person to defend themselves (unless they're an old lady or something) is probably going to get the book thrown at them.

We're all of the mind: Be 150% sure you're in the right and you had to do it to survive, they might jail you anyway.


The Indiana food court mass shooter being stopped at 40 yards, is that .01% event that makes me wonder.
Maybe being able to hit further with a carry piece isn't a terrible consideration.

YouTube's not the best place to learn how to shoot. You have to get out there and do it. "10 yards and in" is an excuse used by those who don't care to become proficient shooters.

 

[lppd4]

Here's one of them -


"This is not a beginner course! You will be required to demonstrate safety, familiarity, and accuracy. It is pass or fail.
– No holster needed
– All shooting from the ready position
– 50 rounds per firearm
– FBI Q target

– 24 rounds at 7 yards
– 14 rounds at 10 yards
– 6 rounds at 15 yards
– 6 rounds at 25 yards
For a total of 50 rounds. Must hit at least 40 rounds out of 50 (80%)"

So in other words if you make every shot at the 7 and the 10 you only have to hit the target twice out of twelve shots to pass. I like my chances

 

[sigp220.45]

I'm guessing that if I wanted to carry in a pocket without a holster (some do for short trips - I likely won't), it might be more of a concern, but with a holster in the pocket, less so - but could snag on pockets at the final bit of a "Fast" draw?

The joy of pocket carry is there’s rarely a need for a true fast draw since you can have your hand on your gun any time you want.

 

[jimmyj]

I find its very important to have a hand filling grip.
You might have to use "Kentucky Windage" with a two inch barrel at 25 yards.

 

[jimmyj]

The joy of pocket carry is there’s rarely a need for a true fast draw since you can have your hand on your gun any time you want.

unless you are sitting

 

[mikerjf]

1. Pocket carry is great, and also a great way to carry a backup for a bigger primary. But, I bob the hammer since it’s a problem for me. (Jeans, tighter pocket.)

2. The 640/642’s have a nice trigger, in my experience. I can stage it easily and shoot them just as well as SA from a hammer gun.

3. Sounds like you’re unlikely to use 357. An older 38 J works better in the pocket than a 357, IMO.

 

[jimmyj]

The most accurate "J" frame I owned was a Model 36-1 heavy barrel with Pachmayr "Gripper" grips.

Two "Incidents" in my career that were "Learning Experences" involved 1. a ankle holster and 2. pocket carry. After these two "Experences" I NEVER carried on the ankle or pocket.

 

[Protocall_Design]

Here's one of them -


"This is not a beginner course! You will be required to demonstrate safety, familiarity, and accuracy. It is pass or fail.
– No holster needed
– All shooting from the ready position
– 50 rounds per firearm
– FBI Q target

– 24 rounds at 7 yards
– 14 rounds at 10 yards
– 6 rounds at 15 yards
– 6 rounds at 25 yards
For a total of 50 rounds. Must hit at least 40 rounds out of 50 (80%)"

That doesn't look very difficult. A Q target is pretty big. A decent shooter could easily put all the shots from 7 - 15 in that space. Then you could miss all the 25 yard ones and still qualify. It still wouldn't be that hard to get the 25 yard ones on there.

Part of the problem is one of perspective. An indoor range that goes to 25 yards (most do) looks like all the way to the end is a 1/2 mile away.

An outdoor range with 100 or 200 yards for rifle, and the rest of the world beyond that, makes 25 yards look like you're almost on top of it. Then 25 is not so hard.

 

[tomahawk223]

Sounds like you might be from NJ with the no hollow points, I just qualified with my 442, excellent pocket carry, light weight.

my 442 and 60 have a slight time in double action where there is a slight hesitation before it breaks so with dry firing practice you can "learn" where that spot is, just like shooting single action once you get good as there is plenty of time and you dont have to rush.

i put old model 63 grips on them before I qualify as they feel better.

 

[John Patrick]

Imo, S&W Model 638 (or other traditional Bodyguard styles - not today’s “Bodyguard”) with Buffalo Bore’s hard cast wadcutters!

The Model 638 and other legacy Bodyguards have shrouded hammers which eliminate hammer snag issues while allowing SA firing.

The BB hard cast wadcutters are what I load in my non-+P rated Colt’s Agent.’

If you would look at second hand revolvers, I would recommend an Agent with Colt’s hammer shroud. Six shots, not five, 2oz, @ ~16oz, more than a 638.

FWIW, I have both the 638 and Agent.

Couple of photos of a Colt’s Agent with hammer shroud:

 

[Bald1]

25 yds double action with a model 36 is not very hard to do. Providing you can see the sights. My eyes got to the point where J frame sights were a big blur to me

 

[kraynky]

The problem with the guns you’ve listed is the exposed hammer: they are a mess to pocket carry.

The guns that offer a hammer and pocket carry ability are the various shrouded hammer guns such as the 638.

Using wadcutter ammo is a great idea! It’s comfortable to shoot and performs very well.

Totally agree with the 638 for pocket carry. I even carry mine in a holster at times. Normally loaded with wadcutters unless I'm working in the yard or woods, and a couple of shotshells are loaded to come around first.

 

[Dutch87]

1. Pocket carry is great, and also a great way to carry a backup for a bigger primary. But, I bob the hammer since it’s a problem for me. (Jeans, tighter pocket.)

2. The 640/642’s have a nice trigger, in my experience. I can stage it easily and shoot them just as well as SA from a hammer gun.

3. Sounds like you’re unlikely to use 357. An older 38 J works better in the pocket than a 357, IMO.

I'd PREFER To buy new, but man I gotta say the 360Js look very cool

 

[Dutch87]

The most accurate "J" frame I owned was a Model 36-1 heavy barrel with Pachmayr "Gripper" grips.

Two "Incidents" in my career that were "Learning Experences" involved 1. a ankle holster and 2. pocket carry. After these two "Experences" I NEVER carried on the ankle or pocket.

Whoa whoa what happened??

 

[Dutch87]

That doesn't look very difficult. A Q target is pretty big. A decent shooter could easily put all the shots from 7 - 15 in that space. Then you could miss all the 25 yard ones and still qualify. It still wouldn't be that hard to get the 25 yard ones on there.

Part of the problem is one of perspective. An indoor range that goes to 25 yards (most do) looks like all the way to the end is a 1/2 mile away.

An outdoor range with 100 or 200 yards for rifle, and the rest of the world beyond that, makes 25 yards look like you're almost on top of it. Then 25 is not so hard.

Very true.
I have to say the only 2 handguns I've taken to 25yards and 50feet were a fullsize 1911 and a 586.
They were fantastic - so naturally all I "know" about J-frames are the rumors, I had the yips about a j-frame at 25.

Finding out that it's makeable with practice is welcome news.

Sounds like you might be from NJ with the no hollow points, I just qualified with my 442, excellent pocket carry, light weight.

my 442 and 60 have a slight time in double action where there is a slight hesitation before it breaks so with dry firing practice you can "learn" where that spot is, just like shooting single action once you get good as there is plenty of time and you dont have to rush.

i put old model 63 grips on them before I qualify as they feel better.

How'd you do at 25 yards with the 442?
I have to say, While I prefer a hammer, the 642 and 442 I got to dryfire at a gunshop reallly surprised me.

I was expecting something that felt more like a grip-strength machine vs a trigger. Wasn't the case.

What ammo do you plan on carrying in it?
Hornady critical duty/defense, or the wadcutter route?

 

[Dutch87]

Imo, S&W Model 638 (or other traditional Bodyguard styles - not today’s “Bodyguard”) with Buffalo Bore’s hard cast wadcutters!

The Model 638 and other legacy Bodyguards have shrouded hammers which eliminate hammer snag issues while allowing SA firing.

The BB hard cast wadcutters are what I load in my non-+P rated Colt’s Agent.’

If you would look at second hand revolvers, I would recommend an Agent with Colt’s hammer shroud. Six shots, not five, 2oz, @ ~16oz, more than a 638.

FWIW, I have both the 638 and Agent.

Couple of photos of a Colt’s Agent with hammer shroud:

Another vote for a 638 - I have to say, if they made a 638 with a factory Big dot/Fiber optic front, I think I would have chosen it outright (and the 360 not making the list).

That colt is a fascinating gun!
16oz and 6round capacity? Wow that's a total home run

 

[Dutch87]

Totally agree with the 638 for pocket carry. I even carry mine in a holster at times. Normally loaded with wadcutters unless I'm working in the yard or woods, and a couple of shotshells are loaded to come around first.

Very nice combo!
Have you painted the front sight, or left it stock?
Same with the grips

How do you like how it shoots with wadcutters?
"Jumpy" but not painful?