feralmerril
Absent Comrade
One of my dads best friends was a infantry LT, durring world war two. They told me there were incidents of rape, and the guys were "killed" in action.
LEO Beats up 15 yo girl in cell
- Thread starter Douglas Haig
- Start date
I'm sure there are plenty more stories of rape in a war zone where they weren't "killed in action". But I was thinking also along the lines, and even more so I guess, of crimes that happen right here in the US.
How come stories of "protectors gone bad" are so much more popular around here when the protectors are cops vs. some other group?
How come stories of "protectors gone bad" are so much more popular around here when the protectors are cops vs. some other group?
billhud
US Veteran
Ain't so much stories of "protectors gone bad" as it is stories of law enforement officers gone lawless.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
At any given time there is aprox 1,500,000 military in uniform. There is aprox 500,000 LEO in the united states. That is one to three ratio. Most LEO are career. Most military are not, with a huge turnover. That means a huge percentage of people in this country are or were in the military, but a very small percentage are or were LEO. I dont know the percentages but lets guess that say maybe 1 out of 5 adult men has been in the military. Maybe 1 out of 150? adults at one time or another have been LEO.
Therefore, I would guess the focus would be on LEO. A huge bigger factor has to be all the many TV shows and movies on LEO as opposed to farmers, factory workers and fast food workers whose jobs arent considered glamoris.
Anyone that ever wore a uniform has had contact with groupe uniform lovers. Why is that?
It all has to stem from hollywood. When I was a kid in the 40s if you were a small town cop, you were considered lazy and couldnt get a real job. Almost overnight when TV came out the shows turned to cops. And if you are old enough, you could see the change in public perception. Anyway, thats my take.
Therefore, I would guess the focus would be on LEO. A huge bigger factor has to be all the many TV shows and movies on LEO as opposed to farmers, factory workers and fast food workers whose jobs arent considered glamoris.
Anyone that ever wore a uniform has had contact with groupe uniform lovers. Why is that?
It all has to stem from hollywood. When I was a kid in the 40s if you were a small town cop, you were considered lazy and couldnt get a real job. Almost overnight when TV came out the shows turned to cops. And if you are old enough, you could see the change in public perception. Anyway, thats my take.
billhud
US Veteran
Actually it's a pretty small percentage of our population that are either serving military or veterans. As the age group devreases that number gets smaller considering it's been 25 years since we had a draft.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
You are right billhud. I see my estimates are way low on the percentages. I stand corrected. I think I was trying to point out the percentages dispareagency between military and LEO, so that is why LEO is more in focuss.
Personaly, I belive the most dangerous jobs in the united states is convenience stores in large citys, yet they get no respect at all! Go figuer.
Personaly, I belive the most dangerous jobs in the united states is convenience stores in large citys, yet they get no respect at all! Go figuer.
Alpo
Member
This is just off the top of my head, but, if soldiers rape or steal or murder or brutalize, it is to people somewhere in another country. It's happening to "them". It doesn't upset me to hear about "cops gone bad" in Mexico, or England, or Germany either. That's another country, and it's happening to "those people". But when cops do it in the US, it is happening here. It could be happening to me or my family. That makes it worse. Because it's more personal.
straightshooter1
US Veteran
Boomstick:
LEOs are authority figures. They have the power to stop, hold, ask questions, etc. So, one reason is that it is kind of a turnabout to bash them in some way.
Another reason:
Nobody cares about the Preacher who spends his life preaching God's Word or the elementary school teacher who spends her career teaching 6 and 7 year olds to read, write, etc. Who wants to read about the politician who faithfully tries to conduct his business in the way in constituents want (OK-maybe a mythical creature) or the lawyer who simply does his or her job?
Or, the cop who faithfully patrols his area of responsibility for years, making arrests of bad guys, writing some tickets, working crashes, etc?
But let one of them cross the line and they are food for the media and people like us.
I think there's something in us as humans that delights when someone like that falls.
Bob
LEOs are authority figures. They have the power to stop, hold, ask questions, etc. So, one reason is that it is kind of a turnabout to bash them in some way.
Another reason:
Nobody cares about the Preacher who spends his life preaching God's Word or the elementary school teacher who spends her career teaching 6 and 7 year olds to read, write, etc. Who wants to read about the politician who faithfully tries to conduct his business in the way in constituents want (OK-maybe a mythical creature) or the lawyer who simply does his or her job?
Or, the cop who faithfully patrols his area of responsibility for years, making arrests of bad guys, writing some tickets, working crashes, etc?
But let one of them cross the line and they are food for the media and people like us.
I think there's something in us as humans that delights when someone like that falls.
Bob
S. Hammer
Member
Then there are those of us who just don't like working with dirty cops. I've never had to be threatened by anyone to do the right thing. This guy needs some jail time for that response.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
straightshooter1, you have it nailed. Just look at the walmart checker threads we had to prove your point. As I already said I spent 35 years as a lowly lockheed guard. A big part of the job was checking badges at shift change. On the average slow day I probley checked several thousand badges. Everyday there were people that resented it. They would pull tricks trying to get you in trouble many times. For instance once I was talking to my captain while checking in a herd of people. One guy walked past us, got about 40 yards in the plant, turned around walked back, and politely said "officer I forgot to show you my badge!"
I just laughed at him as did my captain, and said you showed it, or you wouldnt have got in.
It was almost a daily thing!
People hate their boss,s or anyone that has any kind of juice over them! Yet, how many WANT to be a LEO or night watchman?
I just laughed at him as did my captain, and said you showed it, or you wouldnt have got in.
It was almost a daily thing!
People hate their boss,s or anyone that has any kind of juice over them! Yet, how many WANT to be a LEO or night watchman?
TNDixieGirl
Member
Then post them. I'll gladly bash ANYONE that treats another person in an unacceptable manner. I don't care if you're a cop, a soldier, a teacher, a preacher, a lawyer, a doctor or a pig farmer.
Jeb Stonewall
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SUSPENSION? COUNSELLING?!!!!!!!!
Lets see- the girl gets lippy and kicks her shoe off!
So this tough guy who is around 100# more than the (15 YEAR OLD ----GIRL---)Slams her!
THEN after she is handcuffed ,,he bravely throws a few more punches!
If this spinless !!$# gets what he really needs it would consist of a baseball bat in the girls fathers hands and a 6 foot deep hole to dump this poor excuse for a man in.
Pitdog02
Member
I guess the thing that bothers me is, what if that was a 270lb nfl linebacker type standing there? I doubt he would have lost his cool so fast for the same offense. He made it so personal the way he kept deliberately going to her head and face and hair. This guy has some underlying issues going on. I just find that women and chidren beaters are usually the biggest jerks goin from my limited experience.
Wickahoney
US Veteran
I spent a while and had typed out a very long explanation and history. I have now erased it. What it boils down to is that some people simply should NOT be police officers or placed in any other position of resposability, period.
Sometime it doesn't even reflect that they are bad or evil people, just ill suited for a job where you have to take a lot of BS.
I have a cousin that aparently thought he'd be a police officer because I was one and after all if I was it couldn't possibly be that hard.
Dennis is not stupid. What he is, is a kid from a very small town with a very narrow world view who simply didn't/couldn't understand he could meet out summary punishment just because he was dealing with a bad person. Luckily he was never able to pass the test for any agency, much to his shock. He makes a much better truck driver than he would have a police officer.
respectfully
R W Thomas
Sometime it doesn't even reflect that they are bad or evil people, just ill suited for a job where you have to take a lot of BS.
I have a cousin that aparently thought he'd be a police officer because I was one and after all if I was it couldn't possibly be that hard.
Dennis is not stupid. What he is, is a kid from a very small town with a very narrow world view who simply didn't/couldn't understand he could meet out summary punishment just because he was dealing with a bad person. Luckily he was never able to pass the test for any agency, much to his shock. He makes a much better truck driver than he would have a police officer.
respectfully
R W Thomas
imjin138
US Veteran
The job is very frustrating, of that there is no doubt. That being said if one of my staff did what was on the tape without any justification he would be on leave awaiting his hearing. He would be looking at in the very least time off, termination and charges filed at the local level.
I have one sergeant off on 9 months wthout pay for OWI, firing his handgun indiscrimanatly and not reporting to us once he was arrested.
After this guy on the tape is finished i expect the girl and her family will sue him and his department and get a lot of tax payer money to spend.
There have been a lot of times in th elast 17 years when i wanted to smack the crap out of some jack ass and you have to let it go because it is not worth it.
I have one sergeant off on 9 months wthout pay for OWI, firing his handgun indiscrimanatly and not reporting to us once he was arrested.
After this guy on the tape is finished i expect the girl and her family will sue him and his department and get a lot of tax payer money to spend.
There have been a lot of times in th elast 17 years when i wanted to smack the crap out of some jack ass and you have to let it go because it is not worth it.
rburg
Member
I think what most of us are saying is we can't imagine the justification for what we saw. Its a good thing I'm not a judge. I think I'd warn both the defendant and his counsel to be very careful with what they say. Any lame excuse or excuse not backed up with other evidence would just make me less inclined to view them favorably.
I would think the defendant would want to keep this one delayed for as long as possible. I also wonder what the PD involved is doing. Both about the rogue cop and his uninvolved and silent partner. The partner who didn't come forward instantly, and who probably doesn't value his job much. There are limits, this one appears over it.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/...402005_schene03.html
cmort666
Member
Something I've noticed about some of these high profile assaults is that they are indicative of cowardice by the perpetrator. When you beat up a woman you outweigh by 100lb.s or sap an old man handcuffed to a wheelchair, that says to me that you're picking on the people you think you can take without risk to yourself.
I wouldn't want to work with somebody like that, whether I was a cop or a landscaper. I wouldn't trust my life to somebody so fundamentally bereft of character and human decency.
I wouldn't want to work with somebody like that, whether I was a cop or a landscaper. I wouldn't trust my life to somebody so fundamentally bereft of character and human decency.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
It does look like 1939 germany. If you time the incident, I didnt, its a life changing 15 secounds.
Sounds like she was a problem at home, had to live elsewhere, admittedly called cops fat pigs and other things all the way, hit the hot button after a hour or two of it, the cop lost his cool, lively hood and everything he owned.
Lots of schooling and training down the drain!
I should be rich as buffett for my teen years in comparison! Think about it, that might be almost equal to one football play that we used to do for free!
Sounds like she was a problem at home, had to live elsewhere, admittedly called cops fat pigs and other things all the way, hit the hot button after a hour or two of it, the cop lost his cool, lively hood and everything he owned.
Lots of schooling and training down the drain!
I should be rich as buffett for my teen years in comparison! Think about it, that might be almost equal to one football play that we used to do for free!
I don't hold the military to as high a standard as the police.
1. Most military service members are quite young. Age 22 or less. They are kids stepping up to serve the country when many of their contemporaries are drinking themselves into oblivion at college parties. When these young people fail, it is often a failure of military doctrine or leadership.
2. Many enlisted servicemembers come from less than ideal circumstances and are trying to make something of themselves. I don't think they are perfect people.
It's not like the Abu Graib situation didn't get plenty of airtime. The military got smeared through the mud.
As for the cops, I do have higher expectations of them. Cops are generally a little older and a little more mature than young soldiers. They also work in closer proximity to me. I expect them to be a little wiser and a little more judicious in their conduct. If they are going to enforce societies laws, codes, morals, and values, then I expect them to adhere to those same values.
handejector
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Obviously, this cop is WRONG, and there is no way to condone his actions.
While NOT intending to justify his actions, I think it interesting to point out the circumstances of her arrest.
From the article:
Hmmmmm......So, we have a 15 yr old, who stole her parent's car, is allowing ANOTHER 15 yr old to drive it at 3:45 in the morning WITHOUT lights, and the cops don't know they aren't plain old car thiefs. I can't believe either had a license.
Again, I am NOT justifying the cop's actions.
I am just inclined to believe this girl has had encounters with the Law before. I predict she will also have many more in her life.
If I had stolen my Dad's car when I was 15, and got caught letting another 15 yr old drive it at 3:45am without lights, I would have asked that cop to ADOPT me before I would have gone home to face Dad.....
As I have said, I have no problem with specific incidents being discussed here.
I like the post straightshooter1 made:
A lot of truth there about human nature.
Let's just all be eternally grateful there are never charges placed for beating a dead horse.
While NOT intending to justify his actions, I think it interesting to point out the circumstances of her arrest.
From the article:
Hmmmmm......So, we have a 15 yr old, who stole her parent's car, is allowing ANOTHER 15 yr old to drive it at 3:45 in the morning WITHOUT lights, and the cops don't know they aren't plain old car thiefs. I can't believe either had a license.
Again, I am NOT justifying the cop's actions.
I am just inclined to believe this girl has had encounters with the Law before. I predict she will also have many more in her life.
If I had stolen my Dad's car when I was 15, and got caught letting another 15 yr old drive it at 3:45am without lights, I would have asked that cop to ADOPT me before I would have gone home to face Dad.....
As I have said, I have no problem with specific incidents being discussed here.
I like the post straightshooter1 made:
A lot of truth there about human nature.
Let's just all be eternally grateful there are never charges placed for beating a dead horse.
cmort666
Member
More fundamentally, my job as an infantryman was NOT to uphold the law. It was to KILL PEOPLE and destroy their equipment to further a political goal of some sort. I was never taught to warn anyone. I was never taught to "deescalate" the situation. I was taught to kill people in pretty much any way I could, be it shooting, explosives, fire, or if necessary, the sharpened edge of an entrenching tool. EVERYTHING else was a means to that end.
That's one objection to what people see as the militarization of law enforcement. Police and soldiers have fundamentally different jobs. I know some people would like treat parts of Chicago, or Saint Louis or NYC like Fallujah or Aachen, but the US Constitution doesn't permit such things.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
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rburg
Member
Federal prosecution is the last line of protection the citizens have. There is a fairly well founded feeling that some law enforcement agencies don't do a very good job of investigating misconduct in their ranks. I say that because of the multitude of high publicity cases we see. Since it happens on a continuing basis, we can only assume its the tip of the iceberg. Those cases only saw the light of day because of the wonders of video recording, and the arrogance of the person who does the dirty deed. For every one of those, we've got to assume some things.
First, most cops are smarter than your average person, significantly smarter than most criminals. There are notable exceptions, like the one this thread is about. But I would assume the smarter ones don't bother doing bad stuff in front of camera's, at least usually.
I've also noticed that most criminals don't get caught on their first escapade, or even the second. What finally happens is they've done so much bad stuff, they get careless. I'm guessing that description also applies to rotten cops. I'm also going to just guess the cops that beatdown Rodney King, the waitress in Chicago, or the poor old grandma in Atlanta weren't at their first rodeo.
Most of us also have gained the feeling (if only from the excuses made for other misconduct by fellow officers) that many cops give their brothers a pass on the first few incidents. But when the conduct is so flagrant it can't be ignored any longer, or its obvious that sooner or later it will result in someones death, action must be taken.
I'm going to guess its better if done on the Federal level when it gets that far. I have this feeling if we didn't have civil rights prosecutions, we'd be right where we were 50 years ago in racial relations.
The 15 YO girl we've been taking about might be a piece of work, and I just don't care. I'm having trouble imagining anything she could say to a professional LEO that would justify his actions. Worse, he was a training officer! Imagine what he's been teaching his rookie!
G
Guest
Dick; Here's the latest on this:
http://www.policelink.com/news...al=pl_nlet_20090305u
The Feds have been brought in.
http://www.policelink.com/news...al=pl_nlet_20090305u
The Feds have been brought in.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
As I said before, I put a law enforcement officer in federal prison for three years for punching out a drunk female, who didn't even know she had been punched. No videotape. No witnesses other than two officers who came forward because it was the right thing to do. The case got ZERO publicity. Literally, it never made the papers or the TV. The system actually works sometimes, without outside pressure.
cudamank
Member
I really do hope the system works this time and promotes this officer to unemployed. He needs a new line of work.
cmort666
Member
The system works in a lot of places. It almost never works in other places. It just depends upon what the citizenry is willing to tolerate. Pretty much anybody, be they cop or MacDonald's drive-thru attendant will live up or down to the standards you set for them. If you keep reelecting a mayor and city council that allow your police department to operate like a Somali militia, you're getting EXACTLY what you want and vote for.
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