LEO Qualify

Wingmaster

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I read about leo's qualifying with their service weapons.
I am sure all departments are different but, what do you have to do to qualify?

Wingmaster
 
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My department's policy is that we shoot a qualification course with our duty handguns and approved off duty/backup guns three times a year; twice during the day and once at night.

The policy allows several different qualification courses, but typically, it's made up of various number of rounds fired from 25,15,7, and 3 yards. The course is timed and it includes several mandatory and necessary reloads.

Firearms qualifications should never be confused with firearms training, but unfortunately, I know of some departments who consider it the same thing, or worse, they hold annual qualifications but never offer training.

Fortunately, our department offers tactical firearms training on a regular basis, seperate from firearms qualifications.
 
what do you have to do to qualify?

Not much. But then again, firearms use is a very small aspect of what law enforcement is all about. Lack of training in firearms generally comes down to lack of training dollars. Even if there were an increase in training funds, better and more training in emergency vehicle operations would likely benefit police and public alike more than an increase in firearms training.
 
Once a year,
Pistol:30 rounds, timed from 3, 7, and 15 yards. 21 hits somewhere in a full sized torso target.
M4: 30 rounds from 50 yards, no time limit. 21 hits somewhere in a full sized torso target.
Shotgun: 5 rounds #4 buck at 25 yards. One pellet from each round somewhere on the target.

Yet it took some 2 or three tries to pass.
 
We qualify annually with a autoloader or revolver on a combat type pistol course. Thirty rounds from 25, 15, 7 and 3 yard line against two targets The course varies with mandatory reloads and kneeling and command shots to the head. I'm sure there is a name for this course, but I don't know it. Takes an 80% kill score to pass.

We also shoot the Mini 14 and Shotgun. Mini 14 is a twenty round course from 50 to 25 yards with prone and hip shots. Shotgun is similar but ten rounds. Many of the females struggle with the 20" 12 gauge pump. If you fail with the pump, you have to retry and fire another 10 rounds of the buck-shot. 20 rounds is a rough day for a small female.

We used to shoot a 50 round pistol course with 12 rounds, unsuported, from the 25 yard line. It was more difficult.
 
We qualify every Quarter.
It's an all day affair as the rest of the day was either covering policies like use of force/Low light shooting (once every year), or shooting courses such as building clearing or Three gun type affairs.
Firearms we use are standard sidearm, 14" Remington 870, and the M4 platform.
DHS/ICE
 
We qualify once a quarter/4 times per year. 72 rounds ranging from 1.5 to 25 yards (used to be 50 and rumor we may return to the 50) for the handgun. Shotgun, M4 and UMP40 (for those trained on the UMP). Once the quals are out of the way we do a little additional training which may be some BMI stuff or some advanced tactical moving & shooting stuff. This quarter was a Seal ship boarding course using both the M4 and handgun.

Of course the rest of the day is rounded out with policy and the use of force continuum.
 
I worked part time as a sworn deputy and department armorer for 12 years. We qualified one time per year. We used our own ammo as the SD did not supply any duty ammo. Most of the guys were tickled pink if they scored just above the minumum of 70%. Many of them had a hard time making the excessive time limits with their Glocks and Sigs. Two of us still carried our S&W 686s and qualified with the Federal 125 grain SJHP magnum rounds simply because that's what we carried on duty. We got numerous complaints because of the muzzle blast and noise from the guys shooting cheap ammo. But we both always qualified at 100% with our 686 and our back up model 60s. We used the 158 grain SWHP +P in our model 60 back up guns. Now the department isses Glock 22 40 calibers and duty ammo, but during qualification the guys still have to provide their own ammo. Most go to the Wal Mart white box 40s. Still one time per year.
 
At least one firearms session per quarter, but more if you want. Have to shoot primary handgun every time, backups at least once, long guns more often.

We probably burn 250 rounds per agent per session. Handgun, subgun, shotgun, and rifles.

Minimum qualifying score is 80 percent, but most guys would hang their heads in shame with less than a 90 score.
 
Thanks guys. Thats very interesting.
It doesn't sound like its next to impossible to "qualify" and I do agree that limited training dollars are better spent in other areas.
I guess shooting bad guys is a small part of being a cop.
If it were me, firearms training and qualifing would be the funnest part.

Wingmaster
 
Wingmaster,

Would that all shared your enthusiasm. Some officers show up at the range only because they are required too. They take no pride in their shooting abililty, and if not required too before they leave, the instructors know their weapons will not get cleaned until a supervisor tells them to.

A result of this has been the erosion of firearms proficiency standards over the last thirty years. The outfit I worked for used to fire twelve rounds at fifty yards as part of the qualification course. When I retired it was only two at fifty, and those two rounds did not count against the score. For 'reference' only. Only twenty five and closer counts. Now as you see, some agencies don't fire past fifteen yards, and I've heard of some that don't fire past ten.

I also agree there should be mandatory re-qualification for pursuit - high speed driving and self defense/defensive tactics. The former is expensive and hard logistically for most agencies, the latter will get all the fat, lame, and lazy officers' panties in a bunch. The command staff included. And to be honest, there will be some injuries, but those will be off set in the long run when better trained officers get hurt less in actual confrontations. And a lot off officers fail to remember that a part of defensive tactics is training on how to de-escalate a confrontation.

I also believe there should be physical fitness standards and related testing. The standards should be graduated by age, and based on realistic situations. But lets face it ain't going to happen in most places. The officers would gripe, the unions would get involved, and frankly the brass would be terrified they would have to be held to those standards.

But in my mind, if you cant sprint a half block, go over a chain link fence and get to me with enough wind left to help me, just stay in the car. You'll get in my way. Your partners and your citizens are less important to you than food, TV, beer, and thirty minutes a day of your time.

I've now alienated some fellow cops on this board.
 
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You ain't hurting my feelin' 4Js.

At 53 with 27+ on the job, my dress belt is the same one I graduated in and only one notch off the original position. I'm also they guy who torqued off those that don't want to be at the range by being the guy who wanted to keep running through the Seal course transitioning between the M4 and the handgun (I was having a blast).
 
MKT,

I'm 55. It's us old guys that are still enthusiastic and in shape that torque them off the most.
 
I have multiple members of my extended family in law enforcement and hear very similar stories - like qualifying once per year, but no training.

These folks are in a UNION, and I continue to be amazed that their union(s) allow them to be armed and sent out without adequate and ongoing firearms training.

Some of my family members don't even know the model of the gun they carry every day. Just the brand and caliber.

Cripes! Even CPAs are required to get 'continuing education units' (CEUs) to prove they are maintaining proficiency in ACCOUNTING.
 
4Js, you sure as hell didn't hurt my feelings any. I ran qualifications back in the day when revolvers still predominated and being a pistolero was respected. We fired the 72 round qualification course out to 25 with full magnum loads and then shot other drills, often man against man on steel on the timer with handgun and timer. Rain, sleet, and snow. Usually somebody wound up bleeding a little. Fired brass all over the place.

Not much whining, and usually everyone had a hell of a good time. We even got paid for it.
 
It's funny how you can meet different people and form a certain opinion as I am stating below.

I have 4 very good friends who retired as members from the Boston Police Department.:D

They all handle and shoot their weapons at the range very well and do know a lot about firearms.

I guess a plumber wouldn't want to talk about different types of wrenches when his work day is completed.
 
My brother lives in a small town (pop 5000) and owns a Glock .40. He was at the range and was having a difficult time getting a good group. One of the town officers asked him to look it over. The officer made some derogatory remarks about the adjustable sights then aimed the pistol and shot, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. He shot a nice tight group. I understand some officers are excellent shots and a few barely qualify.

I was in a gun store when a female deputy came in and asked for some ammunition (It was not an emergency). She didn't know which caliber.
 
A few years before retirement my entire department was going through 'Active Shooter Response' training at our range facility.
Many of the young guys there in attendance were unknown to me.
The Sergeant that was doing the training was explaining the concept of making entry into the school, mall, etc, to locate wherever the threat was, with the minimal number of first responding officers. (3-4)
He went on to explain that the first ones there MAY not be your 'regular work partners', they may be a mix of beat officers, troopers, deputies, detectives, whatever.
I got a little ego surge when he pointed me out to the young kids and stated - 'You may be lucky enough to get paired up with somebody like Detective H. here'.
Should have seen the looks on the young officers faces.
That was a fond moment to remember.
 
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Annual, or in some cases semi-annual (not sure why, heard lots of excuses) firearms qualifications are what I am going to miss the most. We had the Glock 21's, and our ranges are 1, 3, 7, 15, and 25 although they tried to do away with 25 yards one year, made little difference. The one yard is a strike and step and then the rest vary from there. I agree that once a year firearms training especially for us in Corrections is far too little because we carry ours on transports and doing visitation detail on the weekends in the lobby. I always do pretty well and was even up for becoming an instructor a few years back but in hindsight I am glad I didn't get it. We have quite a few kids that are too eager and some older people who actually hate carrying guns on the job and I am not sure where the safe spot around them is. I know some every year that have to be shown how to load and chamber the Glock properly simply because that's the only real time they ever touch a firearm. I know some who if they wouldn't get fired would not be on that range. There are some if you get there early enough, you stay as far away from them on the firing line as possible. These are the ones after the particular drill is over and raise their hands because the slide locked back or they even have extra rounds left over and don't know what to do next. The last night shoot I was at was a riot, sort of, when after the flashlights were turned off and there was no light at all, one of these wonders let out a barrage of .45 ACP in total darkness simply because they thought that's what they needed to do.
Two of the former instructors of ours are retired now and are friends of mine and they had many issues and used to go to those in charge and tell them the sorry state of things, they got the usual, no money, we weren't carrying all the time every day, at least not the same people. Some officers were not even allowed on transports. I can tell you honestly some I work with should not be anywhere near a gun. It happens, and there is enough blame to go around, the unions don't push for better training, sometimes those in charge don't want to ask for the money, etc. There really is no excuse though.
 
Standard qualification:
60 rounds
3 (12 rounds, 6 strong/6 weak), 7 (12 rounds),15 (18 rounds, 12 standing/6 kneeling), and 25 (18 rounds, 6 strong barricade, 6 weak barricade, 6 over the bench) yards on a TQ-19 target.
Each hit in the gray zone is 5 points, each hit in the black is 2.5 points, any hit not on the target is zero.
Max points=300, 240 to pass (80%)
 
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