Loading Mistake on 38-Special 158XTP instead of 125XTP w/HS6

[HorizontalMike]

I have been reloading .357 with 158XTP and N105 all week (~500) and was finishing off the final 50 or so this morning, since my Lee Turret Press was already set up for just that. THAT went well... BUT, BUT, BUTT!

Then I was going to shift to loading ~100 38 Specials w/125XTP bullets... I tried to be meticulous to get it right, HOWEVER, after switching over to HS6 for the 38 Specials, I forgot to move the dang 158XTPs aside and open a new box of 125XTPs. They were on the bench already, and set aside for just that task. Pet peeve is that all the Hornady bullet boxes "look the same", same color same layout, etc., with only the grain size difference on an end label,... grr...rr...

ANYWAY, all said and done, I ended up loading 158XTPs in my 38 Special brass with WAY TOO MUCH powder of HS 6 for the weight of the bullets.
Target = 125XTP with 7.2gr of HS6
Result = 158XTP with 7.2gr of HS6

BIG MISTAKE: The max load for a 38 Special paired with HS6 and a 158XTP is 6.5gr. and THAT is at +P loads! I have 100 rounds of 38 Special with 7.2gr of HS6 that will/could blow my favorite 686 4in. up!

Currently I have a cheap Frankford Arsenal Impact Bullet Puller that I am SURE won't last long enough to pull 100 rounds, since it is at the bottom-feeding level of such pullers. SOOooooooo...

Question is:
What is the BEST (and most durable) bullet puller for this job?

Geez! At least I caught it before an Armageddon range incident! ... So help me out here... My cheap little plastic puller is NOT up for this job. I need a good puller that will allow me to salvage all components... bullet, powder, and case w/primer...

 

[jimmyj]

Would it be safe to fire the overloaded .38 specials in your .357 magnum revolver ?

 

[Protocall_Design]

A collet bullet puller is THE way to go. Much more civilized than an impact puller. They are not very expensive, and once you have the body, you only need to buy a collet of whatever size you want to do. The collets are a few bucks. The collet puller is used with a reloading press. A single stage press is handy, but can be used in a progressive too.

 

[iouri]

I think your FA should do the job. I've been using it for years pulling rounds from 25ACP all the way to heavy crimped 500 Mag. Hodgdon says that 6.6gr is max for 38SP +P so I don't think shooting those would be a good idea even in 357 revolver.

 

[bigggbbruce]

Would it be safe to fire the overloaded .38 specials in your .357 magnum revolver ?

10% overcharge might be ok...

jimmyj, you want to try the first one...

 

[dr. mordo]

Would it be safe to fire the overloaded .38 specials in your .357 magnum revolver ?

The current Hodgdon starting load for 158gr XTP in a .357 is 8.0gr...

Speer #8 (known for legendarily hot and potentially unsafe loads) lists the .38 SPL starting at 7.5 to a max of 8.5 with 158gr "Speer Soft Point" bullets.

Also, note that .38 SPL loads have become downright anemic over the years. Back in their heyday, .38 SPL +P loads regularly got into .357 speeds. That will wear guns out faster, especially older .38s, but is not a factor in a modern 357 designed for far more stress than a hot .38 +P.

So, personally I'd have no problem shooting that load in a 686.

 

[Sevens]

Zero worries about using a .357 Magnum as the bullet puller. Great post above mine shows why, saved me the work of looking it up and posting it, thank you Dr. Mordo.

However!

What you did is an EGREGIOUS foul-up. I give you a thumbs-up for catching your error before the ammo left the load room, but the screw-up is still serious.

Pulling every one with a kinetic hammer-type puller will be work that is no manner of fun but it suits the screw-up and may help you remember this mistake and how serious it could be.

I vote kinetic puller!

 

[Calliope]

No it's not safe to fire in a 357 revolver.
Once you're above the max in the loading data, you have no idea how much pressure you're generating.
You can't make assumptions about 38 special using 357 data. The longer 357 case would reduce the pressure greatly over the same load in a 38 spl case.
Substituting JSP data for JHP data is another assumption that shouldn't be made. JHPs are longer and sit deeper in the case.
As the OP noted, 6.5 is the current max.
Pull 'em.

 

[4barrel]

I would probably work an hour overtime and buy some more bullets and throw those in a barrel and set on fire an watch the fire works at night. The Frankford should hold up if you don't mind spending 3 hours correcting that mistake. A 6 pack will make it go smoother and watching Family Guy. I have swelled two 357 cylinders since I started reloading in the 70s and it isn't worth the chance.

 

[Nevada Ed]

It would be painless if fired in your .357 Magnum.


A long hard task with the inertia bullet puller but it should work without breaking
if you hit it on the correct surface.
I use a 25" 4x4 held between my knees.

If the bullets are crimped, you can try a few to see if you want to do 100..............

Good that you caught the error.

 

[HorizontalMike]

BEST collet bullet puller?

A collet bullet puller is THE way to go. Much more civilized than an impact puller. They are not very expensive, and once you have the body, you only need to buy a collet of whatever size you want to do. The collets are a few bucks. The collet puller is used with a reloading press. A single stage press is handy, but can be used in a progressive too.

This is what I have found thus far:
Forster Collet Style Bullet Puller - MPN: BP1010
AND
Forster Collet Bullet Puller Collet 35 Cal (358 - MPN: bp2358

Not worried about the cost, more so about the wasted effort of beating a hammer to death... ;-) That effort does NOT tend to calm this old disabled vet down much to say the least...

BTW, I was wondering about getting screwed up switching 38Sp to 357Mag back and forth. Paranoid to say the least, but it has paid off. In the long run, I only have three basic reloads to worry about:

1. My old 1953 Remington 722 #.222
2. My .357 in my 686 and 627
3. And my little 642 carry...
4. My 22-Long Rifle is rim fire and just a nice plunker that doesn't count since it is not a reloader-type... ;-)
5. PLUS, if I start choosing too damn many bullet weights/types, I'll get CORN-FUSED... Trying to simplify where I can, but have not done so yet... 8-(

My favorite round is the 158XTP for my handguns. I am "testing out" whether I will like the 125XTP and its faster FPS, or not. May be more trouble than its worth... Just don't know...

 

[HorizontalMike]

I would probably work an hour overtime and buy some more bullets and throw those in a barrel and set on fire an watch the fire works at night. The Frankford should hold up if you don't mind spending 3 hours correcting that mistake. A 6 pack will make it go smoother and watching Family Guy. I have swelled two 357 cylinders since I started reloading in the 70s and it isn't worth the chance.

Boy I understand THAT! My 686 is a NO-Dash that I bought new back in 1986, so I am really protective of this baby...

What really ticks me off is that the brass is NEW Starline Brass that has not even been fired at all! Ergh...

 

[reddog81]

Shoot them in any .357 and you'll be fine. According to the Hodgdon's website using that exact same bullet in .357 the start is 8 grains and max is 9.5 grains. You are 10% below the starting load and 30% below the max load. Your gun doesn't know the difference between a +P+ .38 Special and a weak .357.

You need to be careful when reloading but a little common sense is also useful.

On a related - I'm pretty sure all bullet manufacturers use the exact same looking boxes for their wares.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Not correct

Shoot them in any .357 and you'll be fine. According to the Hodgdon's website using that exact same bullet in .357 the start is 8 grains and max is 9.5 grains. You are 10% below the starting load and 30% below the max load. Your gun doesn't know the difference between a +P+ .38 Special and a weak .357.
You need to be careful when reloading but a little common sense is also useful.
On a related - I'm pretty sure all bullet manufacturers use the exact same looking boxes for their wares.

Please do not confuse my use of a .357 gun to shoot .38 Special cartridges. It is STILL a .38 Special cartridge, even when shot out of a .357 gun, and those 38 Special cartridge limitations are from 5.6gr to a max of 6.2gr, and at 7.2gr in a 38 Special cartridge it is WAY OVER the max limit. In other words it would produce way too much pressure during combustion, and quite possibly blow the cylinder, if not the barrel as well.

 

[BC38]

Would it be safe to fire the overloaded .38 specials in your .357 magnum revolver ?

My first thought EXACTLY. If you have a 357 revolver. Since 7.2gr is below the starting charge for 357 rounds, shoot them up.

Just be sure to put them in a box specially marked with a BIG RED disclaimer NOT to shoot them in a 38 special revolver.

They are right between the upper 38 +P and the lower 357 range, so they will be a pleasant target load. Who knows, you may have accidentally hit on a great accurate target load for your gun.

The only difference between the construction of the 38 special case and the 357 magnum case is that the 357 case is 1/8" longer. That 1/8" difference in case length/capacity is a non-issue IMO. It will raise pressure a tiny bit but you are so far below the pressure limits of the 357 cartridge it is irrelevant. The 357/38 case capacity is so large relative to the pressures it isn't anything like the 9mm where the case capacity is tiny and even a small reduction in case volume has a huge effect on pressure.

An eighth of and inch is a large reduction in case volume when the case volume below the bullet is only 1/2" deep to start with as it is with the 9mm. Not so much when the volume below the case is an inch like the 357/38 case - unless you are loading at the upper limit of the 357 range - which you aren't in this case.

 

[Confederate Tyrant]

Here's a previous post that discusses HS-6 and .38 Special +P loading to duplicate the FBI load with 7gr (would .2gr and jacketed bullets increase the pressure into the danger zone?):

38 SPL +P and HS-6

 

[reddog81]

Please do not confuse my use of a .357 gun to shoot .38 Special cartridges. It is STILL a .38 Special cartridge, even when shot out of a .357 gun, and those 38 Special cartridge limitations are from 5.6gr to a max of 6.2gr, and at 7.2gr in a 38 Special cartridge it is WAY OVER the max limit. In other words it would produce way too much pressure during combustion, and quite possibly blow the cylinder, if not the barrel as well.

LOL. The only difference between the cases is a 1/8 an inch of brass. How could an overpressure load blow up the barrel? Hopefully someone with quickloads can run this recipes through the program and show it's right around 22,000 to 25,000 PSI.

 

[alaskavett]

My friends, you have "stumbed" onto a wonderful "excuse" to buy a Ruger bolt action in 357! I dont know if they still make them, but now you have a reason to look for one. I should think you could feed them into any quality lever action in 357 also. Kyle

 

[arjay]

I once had to tear down 100 45 colt rounds that had a heavy crimp with a whakamole hammer.I spread it out over a year lol
you have my sympathies

 

[muddocktor]

I'm also in the shoot em' camp in a quality 357 Mag such as your 686. Like has already been said, it's a 10% lower charge than a starting load for 357 Mag and the 38 Special case only has around 10% less volume than a 357 Mag case. And I seem to remember reading somewhere that Starline uses the same thickness brass on 38 Special as 357 Mag. I would have no qualms whatsoever shooting them in any of my 357 pistols.

One thing I would definitely do though if you plan to shoot them is to mark the primer with a Sharpie or other permanent marker to make sure you don't confuse them with some other 38 Special ammo you have loaded correctly. I use different colored Sharpies to mark different loads when working up some ladders in rifle rounds myself and it makes it easy to tell what powder weight I am shooting.

If you plan to pull the bullets, I would recommend the CH/4D No. 402 Bullet Puller to have yourself a quality collet style bullet puller. I inherited mine when my Dad passed in 1994 and he had bought it back in the early to mid 60's. The present one is still the same design as the one I have and all new collets will fit my older one. And CH/4D have been around a long time and if you are a wildcat cartridge shooter, one of the go to places for wildcat reloading dies.

Finally, since you are shooting jacketed bullets, I would suggest that you look at the Zero Bullets 125 and 158 grain offerings. They are quite a bit cheaper than the Hornady bullets and they shoot well for me in my pistols and my Rossi lever carbine. Their distributor is Roze Distribution. I've shot several thousand of their bullets and have been fully satisfied with their bullets. And they are significantly cheaper than Hornady. Their .357 125 grain bullets sell for around $100 per thousand and the 158 grain bullets about $110 per thousand, with free shipping. I've only shot them at the range and not used them for hunting, so I can't say what their hunting performance is like, but they make great range bullets.