I visited the range last week to tryout an old Hwy Patrolman that has been in the back of my safe for a couple + years and has never been shot by me. I had some old .38spls that I had cooked up for my 38/44 and thought I would put this old gun thru its paces. Two rounds and she locked up. I said to myself two rounds and I have a loaded gun with a hammer in battery!!! I got it home and disassemble it as you can see in the photos. Now, the rest of the story; I managed to get the cylinder part way out but one of the rounds (top of the cylinder under the hammer has what looks like a backed out primer). It is jammed against the firewall preventing the cylinder from moving. I was able to push in the ejector rod far enough to get the small movement to the left as you can see in the photos. Need your expert help with what next to do. Very much would appreciate your comments!!!
Locked Up Hwy Patrolman
- Thread starter delta-419
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SAFireman
Member
Gentle tap with rawhide mallet? It looks to be 'un-locked' and just hung up at the rear of the cylinder. You could gently apply pressure to the cylinder front to ease the primer back into the case.
Are you sure the extractor rod is tight.....looks like it has backed out?
If it's not already out of position, try pushing on the back of the center pin to see if that helps.
If you are sure the round at 12 o'clock is empty (fired), and the extractor rod is fully tightened, you could just tap lightly on the right side of the cylinder while pushing forward on the center pin. The cylinder should come right open. If not, it's possible the hammer nose bushing is damaged.
If it's not already out of position, try pushing on the back of the center pin to see if that helps.
If you are sure the round at 12 o'clock is empty (fired), and the extractor rod is fully tightened, you could just tap lightly on the right side of the cylinder while pushing forward on the center pin. The cylinder should come right open. If not, it's possible the hammer nose bushing is damaged.
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Protocall_Design
Vendor
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like the ejector rod may still be engaged with the front lock. If that is the case, I would put the cylinder back in place, put some penetrating oil in the front lock, and tap the center pin with a punch and hammer from the back to get the lock freed up. Once it is all moving, the cylinder should swing open. The ejector rod may be unscrewed, causing another problem, or may be the original problem.
Hair Trigger
US Veteran
I'm with the guys saying the extractor rod has come loose and backed out, preventing it from fully releasing the catch at its end. I would NOT start tapping sideways on the cylinder, you stand a good chance of damaging the yoke as well as the extractor rod. Close the cylinder fully and see if you can "roll" the extractor rod in either direction. You can thread fishing line around the knurled portion and "saw" on the line to see if the rod easily turns.
If you have a fine tool with a small hook, you can slip the hook in between the extractor pin and the latch and pull back on the latch pin far enough to release the rod completely. The latch pin will move a good deal further than the extractor release will push it, look for the front of the release pin to protrude from the extractor shroud. As you slip the hook in against the retention pin, push slightly on the cylinder to see if it releases. If the extractor rod had backed out, this should open the cylinder. I've done this on my M57 before when its rod came loose and backed out, jamming the cylinder.
The pictures below demonstrate what I'm talking about, the revolver is my M28-2
If you have a fine tool with a small hook, you can slip the hook in between the extractor pin and the latch and pull back on the latch pin far enough to release the rod completely. The latch pin will move a good deal further than the extractor release will push it, look for the front of the release pin to protrude from the extractor shroud. As you slip the hook in against the retention pin, push slightly on the cylinder to see if it releases. If the extractor rod had backed out, this should open the cylinder. I've done this on my M57 before when its rod came loose and backed out, jamming the cylinder.
The pictures below demonstrate what I'm talking about, the revolver is my M28-2
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OP
Locked Up 28
Hair Trigger, I worked on the extractor rod lockup today, and a small punch releases the front lock and the back but it is still jammed . With a really close look at the back of the cylinder I think the problem is a backed out primer. I can see it at 12 o'clock both from the side behind the cylinder and clearly under the hammer. I can also see the face of the primer thru the hammernose port. I can get the cylinder far left enough where the extractor rod is not engaged. I have shot black powder Colt Army 1861s replicas that jammed for a loose chamber cap. This feels like a similar event. The cylinder will move a little until the primer jams. How do we approach a jammed hot round with a partially backed out primer??? I thought about reinstalling the hammer, spring, and side plate and firing it without the trigger assembly by dropping the hammer on the loaded round. The cylinder stop still engages the cylinder slot for alinement of cylinder and barrel. Appreciate your help.
Hair Trigger, I worked on the extractor rod lockup today, and a small punch releases the front lock and the back but it is still jammed . With a really close look at the back of the cylinder I think the problem is a backed out primer. I can see it at 12 o'clock both from the side behind the cylinder and clearly under the hammer. I can also see the face of the primer thru the hammernose port. I can get the cylinder far left enough where the extractor rod is not engaged. I have shot black powder Colt Army 1861s replicas that jammed for a loose chamber cap. This feels like a similar event. The cylinder will move a little until the primer jams. How do we approach a jammed hot round with a partially backed out primer??? I thought about reinstalling the hammer, spring, and side plate and firing it without the trigger assembly by dropping the hammer on the loaded round. The cylinder stop still engages the cylinder slot for alinement of cylinder and barrel. Appreciate your help.
Hair Trigger
US Veteran
If my suggestion didn't release the cylinder, you're probably correct about the primer, your hammer nose bushing may be worn enough that there's a slight depression, deep enough for the primer to get hung on. I can't see any other way the primer could hang up the cylinder that way, it is a smooth surface from the hammer nose bushing out to the end of the frame extension.
What you're suggesting sounds reasonable, but before you try firing the gun, ensure you don't have anything blocking the cylinder from the barrel end (like a squib in the forcing cone).
OP
Squib!
Hair Trigger, your last comment pompted me to again check for a squib load. I got out my other 4" M28-2 and marked off a brass rod and discovered a small delta. Only the primer fired projecting the bullet into the mouth of the forcing cone to bind the cylinder. Taking the brass rod and tapping the bullet reseated it into the caseing. The cylinder fell out! I wanted to know why the bullet did not fire and was shocked at what I found. I pulled two of them apart, the squib and another one from the cylinder. The photos speak from themselves. I have never seen powder the color of dirt! Have you guys? It looks like sand. Thanks for all of your help, this place continues to be the best forum on the net!
Hair Trigger, your last comment pompted me to again check for a squib load. I got out my other 4" M28-2 and marked off a brass rod and discovered a small delta. Only the primer fired projecting the bullet into the mouth of the forcing cone to bind the cylinder. Taking the brass rod and tapping the bullet reseated it into the caseing. The cylinder fell out! I wanted to know why the bullet did not fire and was shocked at what I found. I pulled two of them apart, the squib and another one from the cylinder. The photos speak from themselves. I have never seen powder the color of dirt! Have you guys? It looks like sand. Thanks for all of your help, this place continues to be the best forum on the net!
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crstrode
Member
Did the OP not say (or at least imply) that he had "cooked up" these loads himself?
What the F?
What the F?
I would bet a substantial amount that center picture shows a cartridge loaded with sand (you can see the quartz flakes shining). But if I understand the thread correctly, you loaded the rounds. Otherwise I would say some con man loaded rounds with sand to fill full to trick unsuspecting buyers.
He did.
Picture #2 looks like a lot of something ?
Picture #3 looks like unique and probably fine.
Maybe he picked up an odd round somewhere and put it in with his regular stuff.
Picture #2 looks like a lot of something ?
Picture #3 looks like unique and probably fine.
Maybe he picked up an odd round somewhere and put it in with his regular stuff.
OP
Post Mortum
When I reload I will usually do so over a period of a couple of weeks, I bag them with a data sheet included and store in old 50cal ammo cans. I have rounds for a lot of different calibers of both rifles, pistols, and revolvers and many are obsolete. Some of the ammo is in small lots and has been stored for years. Over the past 30 years I have had only two squib rounds, one in a German Lugar and this one. The round in question does not fit the profile of the other rounds that were in the cylinder, my bad! I have a very bad habit of picking up loaded bullets and stray brass at my club range and throwing them in my range bag. Given this bad habit , maxima cupa (my fault). I'm positive this was the result. I do appreciate all of your comments, thanks and " keep your powder dry!"
When I reload I will usually do so over a period of a couple of weeks, I bag them with a data sheet included and store in old 50cal ammo cans. I have rounds for a lot of different calibers of both rifles, pistols, and revolvers and many are obsolete. Some of the ammo is in small lots and has been stored for years. Over the past 30 years I have had only two squib rounds, one in a German Lugar and this one. The round in question does not fit the profile of the other rounds that were in the cylinder, my bad! I have a very bad habit of picking up loaded bullets and stray brass at my club range and throwing them in my range bag. Given this bad habit , maxima cupa (my fault). I'm positive this was the result. I do appreciate all of your comments, thanks and " keep your powder dry!"
crstrode
Member
Confessions to errors and omissions is a good thing.
However, if they come after being caught with a hand in the cookie jar . . .
However, if they come after being caught with a hand in the cookie jar . . .
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Just for those who might suffer the same locked cylinder problem.......
First, take a look at the B/C gap and make sure you can see daylight. If not, you have a bullet stuck between forcing cone and cylinder. If you do see daylight, you likely either have a backed out primer or a cratered primer extruded into the firing pin hole.
Carefully put a 5/16 brass rod down the bore, making sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction and you're holding the sides of the rod. Once you're sure you've got an empty case/stuck bullet. Strike the end of the rod with a hammer to drive the bullet back into the cylinder or case/primer back into the primer pocket. A few light taps is better than one big WHACK. Then, open the cylinder as you normally do. Absent the damaged hammer nose bushing mentioned above, this usually does the trick.
First, take a look at the B/C gap and make sure you can see daylight. If not, you have a bullet stuck between forcing cone and cylinder. If you do see daylight, you likely either have a backed out primer or a cratered primer extruded into the firing pin hole.
Carefully put a 5/16 brass rod down the bore, making sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction and you're holding the sides of the rod. Once you're sure you've got an empty case/stuck bullet. Strike the end of the rod with a hammer to drive the bullet back into the cylinder or case/primer back into the primer pocket. A few light taps is better than one big WHACK. Then, open the cylinder as you normally do. Absent the damaged hammer nose bushing mentioned above, this usually does the trick.
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