M&P 15T

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rgbartol

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Hello all, first post on this site.
I have been looking into an M&P15T. I have two S&W revolvers and two M&P40's and I love them all, so I want to stay with S&W. They seem very reasonably priced and I was looking to hear from others' experience with the rifle. Will really only be target shooting (and keeping in my end-of-the-world stash :-) ) I wonder why it is cheaper than other rifles I see, especially coming from Smith. I hope this isn't a dumb or repeat thread, but I am in the dark with AR's and looking for some help.
 
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S&W is able to control costs because they have brought production in house, vs buying parts from vendors. The new 15T is now less expensive due to several factors.

1. S&W is not using Troy for the railed handguard on the new T. I believe they are now forging it in house.

2. S&W replaced the Troy folding BUIS with Magpul BUIS on the new T. Significant cost savings on the sights.

3. The new T comes with the Melonite treated barrel. Melonite treatment should save manufacturing costs over the chrome lined barrel, as Melonite treating is one step to treat the whole barrel, where with the chrome lined barrel, they have to chrome line inside the barrel and then parkerize the outside. Some folks here, myself included, feel that the barrel that is supplied with the new T is actually a better barrel than the chrome lined barrel on the old 15T.

I think the S&W AR is great. I enjoy my Sport. If you don't mind me asking, what is the price you are looking at for the 15T?
 
I just placed deposit, on a new 15T (811041), at my LGS. My out-the-door price is $1009.
 
So the T is in essence a sport with a rail, standard gas block, FA and DC ?
And nicely done taboot !
 
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Thanks for the info cyphertext. That's exactly the kind of info I was hoping to find out.
 
SSgt M said:
So the T is in essence a sport with a rail, standard gas block, FA and DC ?
And nicely done taboot !
Click to expand...

On paper, it does appear that way. The barrel specs are the same, so to keep manufacturing costs lower I assume they are the same.
 
I used both models before making my decision and they are both great. Ultimately, I decided to order the "old" T (811001) a couple of weeks ago because of a few things:

1. I prefer metal sights (Troy) rather than the plastic Magpuls found on the new T (811041). I actually met a few people who broke their sights. I think they may have dropped it or broke it from over-tightening when mounting but it still should not break so easily.

2. Chrome barrel on the "old" T - You could actually go either way here. The melonite barrel is supposedly a bit more accurate from what I've read but chrome-lined still wins in overall longevity.

3. The original T was made before S&W started cutting corners and lowering manufacturing costs. Although the new T shot great and felt solid, there was just something about the old model that made it seem even better.

4. Availability - Despite the things mentioned above, I was still intent on buying the new T because of the price. I searched everywhere but could not find it. I ended up browsing a CDNN e-catalog at a buddy's place and found the old T for about the same price as the new one and the rest was history.

*I forgot to mention the twist is different between the two, the old is 1:9 and the new is 1:8 I think. I'm not too sure if it would make a noticeable difference.
 
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jrsantacruz said:
I used both models before making my decision and they are both great. Ultimately, I decided to order the "old" T (811001) a couple of weeks ago because of a few things:

1. I prefer metal sights (Troy) rather than the plastic Magpuls found on the new T (811041). I actually met a few people who broke their sights. I think they may have dropped it or broke it from over-tightening when mounting but it still should not break so easily.

2. Chrome barrel on the "old" T - You could actually go either way here. The melonite barrel is supposedly a bit more accurate from what I've read but chrome-lined still wins in overall longevity.

3. The original T was made before S&W started cutting corners and lowering manufacturing costs. Although the new T shot great and felt solid, there was just something about the old model that made it seem even better.

4. Availability - Despite the things mentioned above, I was still intent on buying the new T because of the price. I searched everywhere but could not find it. I ended up browsing a CDNN e-catalog at a buddy's place and found the old T for about the same price as the new one and the rest was history.

*I forgot to mention the twist is different between the two, the old is 1:9 and the new is 1:8 I think. I'm not too sure if it would make a noticeable difference.
Click to expand...

Mr. Jrsantacruz...
1. Where can you document that chrome lining wins out over Melonite. If you want me to, I can document where chrome lining doesn't even compare to melonite on so many levels.

2. The old barrel is 1:9 OK I will give you that. The new barrel is a progressive or gain twist 1:8 5R. Even Remington on their top tier rifles are going to the 5R for accuracy and longevity.

3. The reason that S&W is going to this barrel on their rifles is not to cut costs but because it has proven itself to be a better barrel. I have side by side compared my Sport to a Colt AR15a3 and a Bushmaster Patrolman and my accuracy is twice what either other rifle is and they have the 1:9 chrome lined barrel.

I mean you no disrespect but when I am shooting groups with my Sport that are under 1" @ 200 yards, and haven't started hand-loading yet, they have to have hit upon something. I truly mean you no disrespect but I have researched this a lot. At this point in time, S&W's literature hasn't changed to reflect the "new" T and I agree the Troy metal sights are better than the Magpul plastics but a chrome lining is 40 year old technology.

Please don't take offense at what I have said and enjoy your M&P15 immensely!! But if you would like to see the Melonite literature please just let me know. My apologies to the OP for this sidejack!!
 
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Smith & Wesson - Compare Products

That link should let you do a quick compare. From a quick look:

the T has a carbine length quad rail, where the TS has a longer Troy handguard that is railed only on top.

The T has the melonite, 1:8 twist 5r barrel, TS has the chrome line 1:7 barrel

The TS has magpul stock

The TS has the standard lower, the T has the lower with the integral trigger guard.

Both have Magpul BUIS.
 
I'm sure technology has come a long way. Meaning that Melonite of today, is probably different than Nitride of yesterday, but from what I can see, the names are interchangable.

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD822736&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD500112&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

I don't really know what all that means, I just found it interesting that the chrome lined barrel wore out after 43 thousand rounds in a machine gun that had a minimum firing rate of 200 rounds per minute.

I'd be surprised if, in my life time, I'd get that many rounds fired through all of my guns during the various outings that I may make in the future.
 
oneyeopn said:
Mr. Jrsantacruz...
1. Where can you document that chrome lining wins out over Melonite. If you want me to, I can document where chrome lining doesn't even compare to melonite on so many levels.

2. The old barrel is 1:9 OK I will give you that. The new barrel is a progressive or gain twist 1:8 5R. Even Remington on their top tier rifles are going to the 5R for accuracy and longevity.

3. The reason that S&W is going to this barrel on their rifles is not to cut costs but because it has proven itself to be a better barrel. I have side by side compared my Sport to a Colt AR15a3 and a Bushmaster Patrolman and my accuracy is twice what either other rifle is and they have the 1:9 chrome lined barrel.

I mean you no disrespect but when I am shooting groups with my Sport that are under 1" @ 200 yards, and haven't started hand-loading yet, they have to have hit upon something. I truly mean you no disrespect but I have researched this a lot. At this point in time, S&W's literature hasn't changed to reflect the "new" T and I agree the Troy metal sights are better than the Magpul plastics but a chrome lining is 40 year old technology.

Please don't take offense at what I have said and enjoy your M&P15 immensely!! But if you would like to see the Melonite literature please just let me know. My apologies to the OP for this sidejack!!
Click to expand...

I kinda had a feeling that the melonite fans were going to misunderstand my post after I read it... I apologize if it was a bit misleading, but what I meant was from what I've read online, chrome lined barrels were better for durability, mainly if you are in a situation where you aren't able to clean it regularly and constantly getting dirt, debris, sand, water, etc. in the barrel. I can't prove it, just mainly stating what I've read, but I guess it's irrelevant if this is just going to be a range gun.

Like I mentioned earlier, I was intent on getting the melonite model myself, but was not able to find it so I went with the supposedly better chrome-lined model.

Also, I'm not fan of Bushmaster and Colt ARs, and I'll take the Sport over any of those ANY DAY!
 
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