M&P 2.0 10mm: The Good, The Bad & The WTH?

[M29since14]

Thanks for the update. As someone else said, I'd prefer a sight that mounts directly to the slide on any pistol. The plate thing just seems like a misguided attempt to keep everyone happy, which is impossible.

My own gun has been functionally trouble-free, but does suffer from the terrible trigger action you describe. I have a couple of 9mm frame-size 2.0s with "acceptable" triggers, but the 10mm is just absolutely terrible - even worse than the trigger of my original M&P 40. I doubt seriously that any amount of shooting I will do will make much difference. It makes shooting accurately tedious and difficult. From a manufacturer that in the past prided themselves on the excellence of their triggers (and barrels), this thing is just nuts.

I guess as an anti-bear/anti-personnel gun that would be used at close range, mine might be considered useful, but in its present condition, that's about all.

 

[Hawg Rider]

Sorry to hear about your accuracy and loading issues with the 10mm, Tom. As I've posted before, I must be one of the lucky owners. I've never had an issue with my 4.6" M&P 10mm 2.0. Accuracy has been outstanding, both with the tall iron sights and with my Holosun 507C red dot. The recoil is not bad at all for me, partially due to the aggressive grip texture...maybe comparable to .45 ACP 1911. I always use a Maglula Universal pistol magazine loader. It handles all magazines from 9mm to .45, both single and double stack, which of course includes 10mm. Give one a try, I think you'll like it and it will definitely save your fingers and make loading magazines a breeze! Good luck!

 

[hardluk1]

How were you shooting for group size . Where you setting at a bench using a good rest and shooting at what yardage and group size ?

Try to use a aim point that's larger enough to allow you to see a black ring around your red dot . If you dot optic is the moa version try a 1.5" or 2" black dot for 25 yards . At short yard where I can see your first bullet hole I'll fire at that bullet hole .

Loading the magazine issues , buy a UPLULA to use .
Uplula 9mm magazine loader, universal pistol magazine loader

 

[ultratec00]

I picked up one of the new M&P 10mm PCs a couple weeks ago. Trigger pull breaks crisp and consistent a tad shy of 5 lbs. There was a little hitch I attribute to slop in the actuator. Polished the USB, which helped a little, but overall very acceptable.

Most shooting to date has been open sights with remington 180gr range ammo @ 25 yards. Accuracy is on par with my M&P 1.0 45s, which is saying something. I installed a holosun 507C to test some loads, which is working great so far. The Rem ammo 5 shot groups stayed within 2", which is acceptable to me considering no magnification and its intended application. Zero malfunctions to date with factory and/or reloads. This with 4 different mags.

 

[Tom S.]

How were you shooting for group size . Where you setting at a bench using a good rest and shooting at what yardage and group size ?

Try to use a aim point that's larger enough to allow you to see a black ring around your red dot . If you dot optic is the moa version try a 1.5" or 2" black dot for 25 yards . At short yard where I can see your first bullet hole I'll fire at that bullet hole .

Loading the magazine issues , buy a UPLULA to use .
Uplula 9mm magazine loader, universal pistol magazine loader

Shot off a bench at 25 yards. Using 2 MOA dot, set at next to lowest setting to remove glare. Been shooting for over 50 years, so not a novice. I have two (one for a friend) of the Uplula's coming.

 

[Farmer17]

I bought my M&P 4 inch in February and it has been outstanding. Perfect reliability and the trigger is the best of any striker fired gun I have ever shot, and I've shot a bunch! A bit better than my Sig 365 and MUCH better than my Sig 365 XL. Very accurate and because of the tall goofy sights, I can shoot it better than any iron sighted centerfire semi auto that I own. I'm 64 and my eyesight with pistols is not as great as a few years ago.

 

[Tom S.]

Maglula's arrived and I can highly recommend them to anyone tired of trying to stuff magazines with their thumbs alone. A bit pricey at $35 but they should last forever.

 

[Frank500]

I'm still angry about my purchase of an M&P 10mm. Sent it back three times, asked questions that were never answered. Tried heavier recoil springs to no avail. My full size M&P 40 runs perfectly and has for six thousand rounds plus. Same bullets in the 40 as the ten. My ten ammunition runs perfectly in two 1911s also.
After many shooting sessions and many failures, I dumped it and walked away from Smith. I can fix a 1911 that's not running but not this thing.

 

[rsrocket1]

I love my M&P 2.0 10mm. I'm a 16 year veteran of the M&P 40 1.0 with over 100k rounds through it. For about 10 years, it was my only handgun and I was shooting 100-200 rounds a week with it. I put the Apex FSS trigger kit on it after about 5 years of owning it. Before that, accuracy wise, sometimes I'd have good weeks with it, sometimes I'd have bad weeks with it.

After the upgrade, I didn't really see a dramatic improvement with it probably because I was still recoil sensitive. I tried swapping back and forth between the original parts and the Apex kit and was still inconsistent. Then one week, I simply "got it" and have been very accurate with it ever since. When I bought a very inexpensive complete 9mm slide for it, I was just as accurate with 9mm.

I later bought a surplus complete frame for $99 with the original trigger and was thrown back to poor accuracy. I bought another Apex FSS trigger kit for it and was right back to my good accuracy.

When I bought the M&P 2.0 10mm 4.6" gun this spring with the rebate, I was just as accurate with 10mm full house loads as I was with my M&P 40 1.0 with 180g 1000 fps loads, only the aggressive grip texture was noticeably rougher on my hands. I am now just as accurate with both 10mm 180g 1300 fps as I am with my pet 180g 1000 fps 40 S&W loads. I simply notice a little more recoil similar to the difference between 9mm and 40 S&W loads. I can also shoot 40 S&W through the M&P 10 with no problems.

Is the $499 M&P 10 (after rebate) worth it? It is for me. Will I put a Red Dot on it? Probably not. I have them on my P320 40 S&W, PDP and Mk IV 22/45 and love them but if there is any chance I would want a gun for practical purposes and not just paper punching on the range, I'd probably stick with iron sights.

 

[WaxLawNC]

Yes...if you read your S&W M&P 2.0 Manual, it gives you a chart of optics mounting plates for various red dot sights. The Holosun 507C is the same footprint as the Trijicon RMR, so it uses Plate Type #1. I also used the longer #6-32 screws provided by Holosun with some blue Loctite. Use the correct torque and do not try to over torque the screws. Good luck!

I just got the 2.0 9mm 4" Optics Ready and a Holosun 507C X2 ACSS Vulcan. I've read mix comments on the OEM plastic plates, precision c&h, dpp titanium (no comments on their aluminum) and calculated kinetics. I also read issues with Holosun screws as well. Any feedback on the plate options would be great. Don't want the red dot falling off due to recoil. I also ordered an OpticGard cover (that can stay on when shooting; it's like a cellphone protector for the red dot; not sure it would fit with calculated kinetics lip that is suppose to reduce build up deposits on the lens)

 

[Hawg Rider]

I recently purchased and installed a C&H metal plate for my M&P 10mm 2.0 with Holosun 507C RDO. I noticed that the Holosun and S&W plastic plate started getting a little loose after about 400 rounds, so I upgraded. Only 100 rounds with the C&H so far, but everything is still tight. Installation was quick and easy with Holosun screws and blue Loctite.

 

[Mike-AK]

I replaced all my plastic optic plates with Calculated Kinetics aluminum ones. The last CK plate I bought came with a patch of thread locker already installed on the mounting screws. Nice touch.

 

[RAD57]

Why are the M&P2.0 10mm locking block guide rails so small compared to the M&P2.0 40 S&W? Looks like S&W didn't upgrade the 2.0 45 locking block from the previous version.

 

[muzzlestuffer2012]

By the way, WTH = What The Heck????

I bought a brand new M&P 2.0 10mm a few weeks back because with the S&W rebate, I thought it was a good deal. The rebate process was "OK". I filled out the online form and attached PDF's of both the receipt and box end label. Two days later I received a email saying the rebate couldn't be processed because it lacked documentation. Say what??? Went back to the website, spoke with "Juan" via chat who, after a few minutes said he "found" the documentation and everything would proceed. Alrighty then!

Out of the box, the gun looked good but the trigger was horrible. The long pull was expected, the feeling of 5 pounds of sand and a 'hitch' before releasing wasn't. The store I bought it from has a "trigger locks will not be removed until the gun is on it's way out the door" policy, so it wasn't something I could try before hand. Bad triggers can usually be taken care of via the aftermarket and Apex has a nice, albeit pricey replacement that promises to 'cure what ails ya'. I ordered one and I put it in today. Installation wasn't difficult thanks to Apex's online video's. How various manufacturer's design their products is always of interest and I have to say S&W's design of this gun is no exception. Some of the parts are cheesy and cheap but not to the point where I would recommend against purchasing the model. Installed, the Apex made a magical transformation. Some of the take up was removed but more importantly, the "rocks in the works" feeling was gone and the trigger broke at a much lighter/cleaner pull. Mission one accomplished.

Mission two: old eyes make red dots almost mandatory and since the pistol came red-dot-ready, I bought a Burris Fastfire. Here's where things got ugly and WTH was encountered. Screw number 1 holding the factory sight base cover plate came loose, no sweat. Screw number 2 wasn't budging. The teeny-tiny allen wrench promptly rounded the hole. Arrrgh. Having had similar situations, I found a Torx bit that was snug enough it required a rap to seat. I proceeded to heat the screw up with my soldering station - set to 750 degrees. 4 minutes later, I tapped in the Torx and.... it too stripped, making the once hex hole round. Arrrgh again! Back to the soldering station with a small ez-out stuck in a tap handle. 4 more minutes of heat and a lot of pressure, the screw finally broke free.

Alas, the tale of woe is not yet done. Although the threads in the hole appear fine (well, actually they are coarse), the screws used to hold the sight and adapter plate won't thread into that one hole. So operation Red Dot is now on hold until I can find my 6-32 tap to chase the threads and make they good again. <SIGH>

So, the Good: Gun is reasonably priced and comes with all the adapter plates needed for a red dot sight.

The Bad: The trigger, obviously but that is ea$ily fixed.

The WTH: What the heck happened to that screw? Had the ezout failed, I had visions of cutting off the plastic cover and using vice grips (no, not really!) or sending it back to Mother-ship and listen to them chide me for 'boogering up' the screw.

All this and I still can't say how it shoots because of a stupid screw hole! Stay tuned....

My spec series trigger is horrible as well I have a return label to ship it back but TBH I'm not sure they can make it better ? My xd-mod2 has a much much better trigger and it was less than 1/2 the price. Not sure it's even worth sending it back ?

 

[Gman556]

My spec series trigger is horrible as well I have a return label to ship it back but TBH I'm not sure they can make it better ? My xd-mod2 has a much much better trigger and it was less than 1/2 the price. Not sure it's even worth sending it back ?

Not worth it im my opinion.

You may be waiting for weeks to months, and there may be no improvement.

We keep forgetting on these high production guns the tolerances will be all over the place and you're going to get one with a good trigger once in a while and you're going to get one with a ****** trigger every once in a while.

You have to ask yourself, how bad is the trigger really? Or, do you need to just shoot it a lot to get better with it?

That being said, I personally appreciate a nicer "feeling" trigger especially when you can eliminate some of the overtravel which is the more important thing with a trigger upgrade. I think it's more important than the pull weight.

All Smith and Wesson is going to do is look at it play with it a little bit throw it back in the box and tell you that everything is "in spec" with it.

Unfortunately if you want a better trigger you're going to have to go with an apex or something else.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money, overwatch precision has an upgrade kit for about $70.

M&P 2.0 Improvement Kit for 9mm & .45/10mm - Overwatch Precision

It's a fully machined sear and safety block with a couple lighter springs to try out.

They have 2 choices for a carry sear or a competition sear.

Personally I never use those lighter springs unless you want a 2-2 1/2 lb pull weight.

Also don't expect your groups to get tighter with a better trigger, because that will still be all up to you. It will make for a much better feeling and consistent trigger though.

 

[Well Armed]

It's a shame that gun owners nowadays complain about triggers so much. It's like they expect competition and target grade triggers on $400-$500 mass produced loose tolerance polymer frame duty/self-defense pistols, or else they'll complain about it.

I've owned 7 S&W M&P pistols, and I never had an issue with any of the triggers. I never had an issue hitting what I'm aiming at at self-defense distance either with these triggers. That's the task these pistols and their triggers are designed to accomplish, and any shooter who knows what they're doing should be able to accomplish good hits with the stock trigger. Period.

Next, it is also ridiculous to me and completely asinine when people take a gun out the box, try fire it a couple of times, and then whine about it and want to spend $$$ on a new aftermarket trigger. How about you get a few hundred dryfire repetitions and some actual range time first??? How about you simply learn the trigger and allow the trigger to break in???

It's gotten to the point where it's ridiculous, and I'm tired of all the complaining about stock striker-fired triggers. If people can shoot lights out with 12lb DAO, DA/SA triggers, and with the rifle and semiauto triggers from the early to late 1900s, then no one has an excuse for not being able to deal with or handle the modern day striker-fired trigger which are light years better in comparison. Law enforcement and militaries from the turn of the century to this very date have protected communities, presidents, kings, and fought wars and conflicts with the type of triggers people who will only ever punch paper are complaining about. Gun owners have just gotten soft, spoiled, and snobbish about every little thing.

 

[Well Armed]

I've been in an actual real life or death shooting, unlike most who cry about triggers and getting all their shots through one hole on paper. Had to do with an armed robbery with a thug who had a Glock with a high capacity extended magazine.

I can tell you from experience that you're not going to care about the trigger pull or even remember what it feels like. I don't even recall seeing the muzzle flash, and this happened in low light at 9 pm at night. You're not going to get all your hits in one spot on a rapidly moving target who is shooting back, nor do you even want all your hits going through the same hole if it were remotely possible. You'll and the target will be on the move while shooting. A LOT of stupid **** that paper puncher obsess over ad nauseam on the internet will not matter in reality.

 

[Gman556]

I've been in an actual real life or death shooting, unlike most who cry about triggers and getting all their shots through one hole on paper. Had to do with an armed robbery with a thug who had a Glock with a high capacity extended magazine.

I can tell you from experience that you're not going to care about the trigger pull or even remember what it feels like. I don't even recall seeing the muzzle flash, and this happened in low light at 9 pm at night. You're not going to get all your hits in one spot on a rapidly moving target who is shooting back, nor do you even want all your hits going through the same hole if it were remotely possible. You'll and the target will be on the move while shooting. A LOT of stupid **** that paper puncher obsess over ad nauseam on the internet will not matter in reality.

I wholeheartedly agree with all of this, but there are some people who want a nice trigger on their target guns, so IMHO there is nothing wrong with obsessing over a trigger. Too many times on this site and other sites whenever somebody "obsesses" over a trigger all the doom and gloomers have to chime in and say don't worry about it.

My carry guns don't have any kind of aftermarket triggers on them and are factory triggers, but the guns that I like to enjoy at the range with have nice feeling triggers on them, and I don't give a darn What's some anonymous person on the Internet thinks about it either.

Glad you came out of your incident unscathed.

Would like to see a link to the article in the newspaper or newscast or wherever for when you had this incident?

Have you ever started a thread here or anywhere else describing your real life incident?

Not calling you out or anything, but I like to research these things. Their all unique sometimes in different ways.

 

[Tom S.]

I've been in an actual real life or death shooting, unlike most who cry about triggers and getting all their shots through one hole on paper. Had to do with an armed robbery with a thug who had a Glock with a high capacity extended magazine.

I can tell you from experience that you're not going to care about the trigger pull or even remember what it feels like. I don't even recall seeing the muzzle flash, and this happened in low light at 9 pm at night. You're not going to get all your hits in one spot on a rapidly moving target who is shooting back, nor do you even want all your hits going through the same hole if it were remotely possible. You'll and the target will be on the move while shooting. A LOT of stupid **** that paper puncher obsess over ad nauseam on the internet will not matter in reality.

99.999% of firearms owned by civilians will never be used in a life and death fight so your analogy really has no bearing here. What makes it unreasonable to be concerned about a bad trigger? When self cocking firearms were first introduced, they were notorious for having atrocious triggers but nowadays, manufacturers who turn out pistols with gritty, rough, long take up triggers with inconsistent pull are either lazy or sloppy and don't deserve our business. Why should I have to dry fire a gun 100 or 500 times to wear in parts that should have been properly designed, manufactured and fitted in the first place? I can remember a time when people bought Colt 1911's knowing they were going to have to work on them. In fact, many went straight to gunsmiths without the buyer ever having fired them. I thought it was unacceptable then and is unacceptable now.

Accepting a firearm with a bad trigger is like accepting a new car with a rod knock.

 

[Beju]

99.999% of firearms owned by civilians will never be used in a life and death fight so your analogy really has no bearing here. What makes it unreasonable to be concerned about a bad trigger? When self cocking firearms were first introduced, they were notorious for having atrocious triggers but nowadays, manufacturers who turn out pistols with gritty, rough, long take up triggers with inconsistent pull are either lazy or sloppy and don't deserve our business. Why should I have to dry fire a gun 100 or 500 times to wear in parts that should have been properly designed, manufactured and fitted in the first place? I can remember a time when people bought Colt 1911's knowing they were going to have to work on them. In fact, many went straight to gunsmiths without the buyer ever having fired them. I thought it was unacceptable then and is unacceptable now.

Accepting a firearm with a bad trigger is like accepting a new car with a rod knock.

Triggers need break-in because components are mass produced in highly automated fashion, and most customers would not be willing to pay for hand polishing. Since S&W sells revolvers with and without PC tuned actions (they just stone/polish the sears in a jig and put in a lighter rebound spring), they have a very good idea of how many people are willing to pay an extra $1-200.

My father told me about sending Colt 1911s to gunsmiths right after buying them. They worked fine out of the box if you just wanted a defensive handgun, but he did it to improve them for competition. Of course, there were also some gunsmiths that went a little too aggressively on the stoning and made guns that would sometimes go bang when the slides were racked.

A lot of people don't realize/appreciate that aftermarket and modified trigger components are not meeting the safety, mass market, and duty market demands of factory triggers. With service pistols like the M&P, a lot of agency buyers will insist on >5lb triggers, at least when new.

Oh, that out of the box CZ Shadow 2 3.5lb SA trigger wasn't good enough for you, and you couldn't wait for it to break in to 3.0lbs? 'Fixed' it with a different hammer sear and lighter mainspring? 'Fixed' the light strikes with an extended firing pin and lightweight firing pin return spring? Well, your gun is no longer considered drop safe by factory standards.

I personally saw an aftermarket Glock trigger that wasn't drop safe back when I worked at a range. That was from just being banged on to a neoprene mat covered wooden workbench, let alone being dropped on a concrete floor. My co-worker, who'd seen a lot of aftermarket Glock triggers over the year, told me that this was far from the only one he'd seen fail that not remotely abusive test.

Here's a car analogy from personal experience:

I had a first gen Miata, and the time came to replace the clutch. I started thinking about replacing the heavy steel flywheel with a lightweight steel flywheel. Some people had a, 'if it was better, Mazda would've done it' mindset. I listened to a mechanic who said to go for it, and it was a great mod. Engine response was great, and I got a slight gain in fuel economy. However, if you were just learning to drive a manual transmission, I could see it being a bit too lively for you. It also added some noise and buzziness since there was less mass to dampen vibration.

It was the right mod for me, but that doesn't mean that it was right for everyone.

 

[Top O' Texas]

I bought the 4" when it was released last year (name on the list in either late October 22 or November 22. Factory trigger was fine to me, but then replaced it with a Timney and it's outstanding! Average pull weight on the 5.6 pc is 4#14.6ozs (5 pulls). Average pull weight on the Timney is 2# 10.4ozs. I've ordered the 2.0 45acp 5.31" threaded barrel and will add 1 of the 2 Timney's I've ordered for the 45. I can't say much about the apex trigger, but have used the apex barrels and like those.

 

[scattershot]

" …those of us that can't buy one in the first place …"
As a Canadian reading this thread , I whole heartedly agree
Be thankful you can even buy a handgun
Maybe we will be able to again one day ,but I'm not holding my breath

Maybe it will get better when Quebec secedes. They can take Trudeau with them, eh? Been to BC, by the way. It's stunning.

 

[Gman556]

I bought the 4" when it was released last year (name on the list in either late October 22 or November 22. Factory trigger was fine to me, but then replaced it with a Timney and it's outstanding! Average pull weight on the 5.6 pc is 4#14.6ozs (5 pulls). Average pull weight on the Timney is 2# 10.4ozs. I've ordered the 2.0 45acp 5.31" threaded barrel and will add 1 of the 2 Timney's I've ordered for the 45. I can't say much about the apex trigger, but have used the apex barrels and like those.

Watch out with all that trigger talk!!!

Well Armed is going to have an aneurysm!!