Mangas Colorado

[Texas Star]

Mangas Colorado, 1793-1863, was an Apache chief whose name is sometimes used in Westerns, correctly or otherwise.

I'm told his name means Red Sleeves in Spanish. Thought that'd be Mangas Rojo or Roja.

Will a Spanish speaker please clarify?

 

[Alk8944]

It translates as "Red Sleeves" Think of Chili Colorado, Red Chili.

 

[Rustyt1953]

I cheated and asked "the man behind the curtain".

Mangas - Wikipedia

 

[Texas Star]

How can both Rojo and Colorado mean Red?

 

[Texas Star]

I cheated and asked "the man behind the curtain".

Mangas - Wikipedia

Well, that man doesn't even address this issue. Some ancient Greek blather...

 

[Kurusu]

How can both Rojo and Colorado mean Red?

Easy.

In "rich languages" There are many words. Some mean the same thing. They often come from different roots.

In Portuguese red can be:

1 Vermelho(that's the word we use for communists too)

2 Encarnado.

 

[Absalom]

How can both Rojo and Colorado mean Red?

In my experience most languages often have more than one word for something, and the differences in usage are sometimes hard to translate. That may be the case here.

 

[Kurusu]

And... If I put my mind to it. I remember more ways to say red. Because not all reds are equal.

So...

3 Escarlate.

4 Carmesim.

 

[Absalom]

On a side note, as a language teacher and native speaker of a second language, that's how I could easily nail students who tried to have a dictionary and later Google do the work for them because they hadn't paid attention:

The translated word was "correct", but it often was one that we had not used because it was the wrong one in THAT particular context and a native speaker would never use it there.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

One definition of Colorado is Colored Red.
Whereas Rojo is just Red.
Yes, I love Chile Colorado!

 

[Onomea]

English ain't too shabby either:

Red, crimson, scarlet, vermillion, ruby, cherry, wine, cerise, cardinal, carmine, burgundy, maroon, brick...

 

[vigil617]

His name was actually Mangas Coloradas, whether that makes any difference in the translation. I remember him from Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, Dee Brown's 1970s history of the Native American tribes. He was an important Apache Chief, father-in-law of Cochise, and was tortured to death and beheaded after arriving under a flag of truce for parlay with the military authorities.

The beheading was a particular affront to the Apache, who considered the condition of the body to be a part of the afterlife.

And, I learned recently, "Mangas Coloradas" was the Spanish version of his Apache nickname, "Red Sleeves" or "Pink Sleeves".

 

[Ματθιας]

Father Eusebio Kino a Jesuit priest explorer/cartographer, gave the Rio Colorado, Red River, it's name in like 1700.

 

[Stevens]

Mangas Colorado in not correct Spanish
As in post #12 the correct spelling is Mangas Coloradas (red sleeves).
Steve W

 

[Alpo]

I read that he was named Mangas Coloradas by people that had seen him after a battle. His arms were covered with blood from his shoulders to his hands - red sleeves.

 

[Texas Star]

Yes, I think Colorados is correct, to plural the sleeves. Both that and Colorado are used in movies and the Net.

 

[redlevel]

I read that he was named Mangas Coloradas by people that had seen him after a battle. His arms were covered with blood from his shoulders to his hands - red sleeves.

Reminds me of the famous general who always wore a red shirt into battle so that if he was wounded, his men couldn't tell it, and would not be disheartened.

He also wore brown britches.

 

[Kurusu]

Yes, I think Colorados is correct, to plural the sleeves. Both that and Colorado are used in movies and the Net.

No, colorados is not correct. The correct form, in this case(applyied
to define the color of mangas), is coloradas. Substantives(in romanic languages) have genre, masculine/feminine, and the adjdective follows. Mangas is feminine.

If the subject was to be masculine (ie. gatos) it would be gatos colorados, red cats.

Los gatos(the cats)

Las mangas(the sleeves)

Los hombres(the men)

Las mujeres(the women)

As I said, "rich language" and full of traps.

 

[Alpo]

Reminds me of the famous general who always wore a red shirt into battle so that if he was wounded, his men couldn't tell it, and would not be disheartened.

He also wore brown britches.

Mangus wore a brown leather breechclout.

 

[Stevens]

How 'bout "Mangos colorados" red mangos, that would be correct!
Steve W

 

[Texas Star]

No, colorados is not correct. The correct form, in this case(applyied
to define the color of mangas), is coloradas. Substantives(in romanic languages) have genre, masculine/feminine, and the adjdective follows. Mangas is feminine.

If the subject was to be masculine (ie. gatos) it would be gatos colorados, red cats.

Los gatos(the cats)

Las mangas(the sleeves)

Los hombres(the men)

Las mujeres(the women)

As I said, "rich language" and full of traps.

Mario-

Thanks. I didn't know sleeves were feminine. Hadn't seen it with the Las prefix.

 

[Kurusu]

How 'bout "Mangos colorados" red mangos, that would be correct!
Steve W

That would indeed be correct.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

You need to remember that most of the Our Folks- Military and Civilian - reporting about the Apaches didn't speak Spanish, Portuguese or Apache.
The Greatest Apache Scout was probably Al Sieber.
Duval played him in that Geronimo Movie.
Al spoke English, German (born there), Apache and Spanish.
He could relate the events, locales and folks involved in an encounter to the Army Officer writing the report, like Lt. Gatewood.
When Gatewood wrote about an event in English, that's when the mismatched words appeared.
After all, Sieber was a Tracker, Not a Speller!

Al Sieber - Wikipedia

 

[Texas Star]

This sort of reminds me of villain Wally Hendry in Wilbur Smith's, The Train From Katanga. Smith said it was his measure that he had been six months in the Congo and spoke not a word of French.

 

[Chino74]

Well Wally was a problem from the beginning. Curry shoulda took that loose canon out sooner!

 

[Texas Star]

Well Wally was a problem from the beginning. Curry shoulda took that loose canon out sooner!

Rod Taylor played Curry well in the movie, but the US title changed and I don't recall it. Africa Ablaze?

 

[Stevens]

here is one about Spanish:
Ropa is not rope
sopa is not soap
but ice is, hielo (Yellow)
Steve W
I know it doesn't make any sense, but it has stuck in my brain ever since I read it as a kid about 60 yrs ago.

 

[cowboy4evr]

I need to correct . Mangas Colorado was not the Chiricahua Apache Chief Cochise's father . He was Cochise's father in law . I grew up / spent most of my life in the area that Cochise roamed , called his land . The mountain range right behind the ranch that I spent the most time on is called " The Chiricahua Mountains " named after the tribe that Cochise was the Chief of . There is a box canyon in another mountain range not too far away called , " Cochise's Stronghold " . When he got in there , there was no way to get him or his tribe out . There was plenty of game for food and fresh water , only one way in and out . Regards Paul

 

[Kurusu]

here is one about Spanish:
Ropa is not rope
sopa is not soap
but ice is, hielo (Yellow)
Steve W
I know it doesn't make any sense, but it has stuck in my brain ever since I read it as a kid about 60 yrs ago.

LOL.

You can wear ropa. But better not wear a rope(specially around your neck).

You can eat sopa everyday. But will only eat soap if you have a foul mouth.

And... Better not be yellow.

 

[Kurusu]

You need to remember that most of the Our Folks- Military and Civilian - reporting about the Apaches didn't speak Spanish, Portuguese or Apache.

And most didn't read or write in any language either.