Massachusetts Reason To Carry Concealed

[Jeff1000]

Hey guys, first post looking for some feedback.

I'm in Worcester, Massachusetts trying to come up with a strategy to secure a license to carry (Class A License). The chief of police has a reputation for never issuing a Class A without the restriction of "just for sport and target". I deeply resent this and find it unacceptable.

I've been trying to come with a reason (to write on the application) as to why I need a license to carry a concealed handgun. This is what I've come up with:

"For all lawful purposes; to exercise my second amendment rights, and for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as stated in the Declaration Of Independence."

I'm trying to keep as simple as possible with the most compelling argument possible. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!

 

[jlanecole]

I don't have any idea how this application system works, but 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' actually comes from the Declaration of Independence. Hopefully someone will come along who has had success in a 'may issue' situation.

I wish you luck; it must be very frustrating.

 

[Jeff1000]

But of course you're right, it's in the DOI. Believe it or not I actually knew that but I had a mental lapse. The second amendment is in "The Bill Of Rights". Thanks for the heads up.

Yes, it is a "may issue" situation and it's potentially very frustrating.

Here's a local news story about a lawyer with a clean record (and a more compelling reason than myself to desire to carry) who was turned down by the chief. I wonder what chance I have, probably zero. It seems that if this lawyer wasn't deemed suitable who exactly would or could be?

Suit aims at policy on guns - Worcester Telegram & Gazette - telegram.com

In another article I read that Chief Gemme automatically puts the "sporting and target" restriction on all first time appliers. This is just wrong: unelected bureaucrats choosing winners and losers.

Anyway, I appreciate your well wishes and reply. Thanks.

 

[s&wchad]

You could cite that Worcester has a crime index if 12 (scale of 1 to 100 where 100 is the safest).
You could cite that their rate of assault is three time the nation average and the odds of being victimized by violent crime in Worcester are are 1 in 103.
You could cite that their crimes per sq mile are 5X the national median.
You could explain that the rate of violent crime decreases significantly in "shall issue" states and Worcester's unconstitutional policies contribute to their high rate of crime.

Unfortunatly, I'm sure you're wasting your time. At least they make a good seasoning sauce... oh wait, that's not them. Move.

Worcester crime rates and statistics - NeighborhoodScout

 

[Jeff1000]

You could cite that Worcester has a crime index if 12 (scale of 1 to 100 where 100 is the safest).
You could cite that their rate of assault is three time the nation average and the odds of being victimized by violent crime in Worcester are are 1 in 103.
You could cite that their crimes per sq mile are 5X the national median.
You could explain that the rate of violent crime decreases significantly in "shall issue" states and Worcester's unconstitutional policies contribute to their high rate of crime.

Unfortunatly, I'm sure you're wasting your time. At least they make a good seasoning sauce... oh wait, that's not them. Move.

Worcester crime rates and statistics - NeighborhoodScout

Thanks for your help. I'll keep that data close to the vest.

I'm going to give it a shot (no pun intended). I really only have a need for HD and the shooting range, but that's not really the point is it. If I have a need to carry I'll carry whether I have a Class A or not. These nanny state liberals certainly don't give a rat's *** about my rights or my safety.

I understand the concept behind moving in that each state, in this case city, is like an experimental lab and if you don't like a certain jurisdiction you can simply move since the Constitution is still intact (relatively speaking of course). I simply don't want to move though.

Anyway, thanks again.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Give GOAL a call. They can tell you whether anything is possible, and give the name of a lawyer who handles this (if there is any possibility). You might also consider applying from the location of your place of business, if it is different, or moving to another town.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

1: "Because the local PD refuses to issue me a LEO"
2: "Because I'm 68 years old and have no other way to defend myself against the druggies mugging people in my community"
3: And, finally, "Because the 2nd A gives me that right".

Or you could move next door to Vermont avoiding all this and living in a state with a very low crime rate.

Just one of the reasons I left the Bay State when I graduated from HS.

 

[gdauth]

Since your changes are zip anyway, why don't you tell him that you wouldn't have to apply for a CCP if he would do his job. At least you might have some satisfaction. Of course this suggestion is tongue in cheek.

 

[Jeff1000]

I heard this on another forum:

"Personal protection inside and outside the home, further training, sporting, collection, all lawful purposes."

I decided that quoting crime stats would be like telling the chief that he sucks at his job . The second amendment thing is not news to anyone and may make it seem like I'm a gun nut with an agenda.

Thanks for the further replies.

 

[johngalt]

You are making the assumption that he is logical and is willing to listen to reason. Most likely, he simply doesn't want, and isn't going to allow, anyone to carry in his jurisdiction. Regardless of the Constitution, your rights, logic, or any good reason.

 

[Mike McLellan]

The trouble with dealing with people of authority, especially sheriffs or police chiefs, is that they see any reference to the Constitution or Declaration of Independence as a potential confrontation. They're generally not in a position to defend their rules or regulations. Their argument is simply, "That's the way it is!". You're not going to sway him with truth or logic. Why don't you just pack up your family and move to Alaska? We don't have those silly permits up here.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

You are making the assumption that he is logical and is willing to listen to reason. Most likely, he simply doesn't want, and isn't going to allow, anyone to carry in his jurisdiction. Regardless of the Constitution, your rights, logic, or any good reason.

I think that sums it up but I believe behind his decision is a political motive. Most chiefs jobs are appointed, therefore to keep their jobs they reflect the ideas of the local select board members. If issuing cc permits upsets these folks, they are not going to do so.

 

[Jeff1000]

You are making the assumption that he is logical and is willing to listen to reason. Most likely, he simply doesn't want, and isn't going to allow, anyone to carry in his jurisdiction. Regardless of the Constitution, your rights, logic, or any good reason.

Exactly correct John, I know that, but I still want to give it my best shot. Thanks.

 

[ViperGeek]

This is an excellent question and thread, Jeff. I had the same question in my mind when considering a non-resident MA CCW permit.

There's a pretty interesting thread on USACarry.com that might give you additional insight:

Difficulty in obtaining Non Resident Carry Permit (Class A) in Mass?

In the end, "personal protection and safety" was the only justification I could come up with, which I suspect won't cut the mustard, so I saved myself $100/year and gave up on the idea.

- Dave

 

[feralmerril]

You might well be right. However to some people it might sound similar to, "Bite me"! Ah knows muh rights?

 

[StatesRightist]

It's sad that one of the birthplaces of the US has become such a cesspool and the exact opposite of what the Founding Fathers envisioned.

 

[Moonman]

It's probably just easier to MOVE.

 

[venomballistics]

I heard this on another forum:

"Personal protection inside and outside the home, further training, sporting, collection, all lawful purposes."

I decided that quoting crime stats would be like telling the chief that he sucks at his job . The second amendment thing is not news to anyone and may make it seem like I'm a gun nut with an agenda.

Thanks for the further replies.

I'd think the fact that the police chief sucks at his job would be the best reason

 

[tekoy]

Mass. unrestricted class A LTC

Jeff, I'm live in Western Mass. and had no problem in my city for an unrestricted class A LTC. Someone I know went to get an unrestricted class A LTC in a city where the police chief will not issue one unless you are a LEO. When he stated that he qualified for one according to Mass. law he was told if he wanted to carry, to join a gun club with 24 hour access, which is the same one I belong to. He was also told by the PD to just say, he was on his way there to go target shooting if any LEO questioned his carrying.

 

[Jeff1000]

Jeff, I'm live in Western Mass. and had no problem in my city for an unrestricted class A LTC. Someone I know went to get an unrestricted class A LTC in a city where the police chief will not issue one unless you are a LEO. When he stated that he qualified for one according to Mass. law he was told if he wanted to carry, to join a gun club with 24 hour access, which is the same one I belong to. He was also told by the PD to just say, he was on his way there to go target shooting if any LEO questioned his carrying.

We shouldn't have to play these games to exercise rights granted to us as an American citizen.

The law abiding citizen is immediately put on the defensive to explain why his rights should be granted. My rights are as clear as the Bill of Rights. What's not clear is the reason the chief has for limiting my rights.