Max safe bullet speed

[Silvergoose]

Looking into reloading and I will have alot of questions. I know that commerical ammo is loaded to meet perfomance and safety concerns, but what about reloads? I recently bought a new rifle chambered in 22-250 the main reason is for coyote control. After doing a fair amount of research this round made sense. Shooting range around 300 yards or less, lightweight rifle. I had planned to reload not only for this but also other calibers. I have learned that F.P.S. can vary greatly in the 22-250 round, from around 3400 to more than 4400(Hornady) F.P.S. Because of the spread in speed has lead to this question:
What is a safe speed per given caliber? How is it determined? What happens if it is exceeded?

Thanks for any input.

 

[arjay]

A safe speed is determined by a safe pressure.If you exceed that too far the gun will blow up lol
A round like the 22-250 can really scream,but it also generates a lot of heat which can be hard on a barrel.
If you stick to published loads and work your way up from the minimum and watch for the tightest groups,you'll often find the best accuracy somewhere in the middle of the range listed

 

[Granddad]

A safe speed is determined by a safe pressure.If you exceed that too far the gun will blow up lol
A round like the 22-250 can really scream,but it also generates a lot of heat which can be hard on a barrel.
If you stick to published loads and work your way up from the minimum and watch for the tightest groups,you'll often find the best accuracy somewhere in the middle of the range listed

Good advice and many factors will affect chamber pressure. A good start to getting answers to any reloading questions is to buy or borrow a reloading manual and read it cover to cover; then read it again. Good luck.

 

[kwselke]

For coyotes at 300 yards or less I'd recommend a 55 grain bullet and go with the load that gives you the best group. Do not worry about the velocity, anything out of a 22-250 will fly fast and flat.

 

[colt_saa]

There is no such thing as a "safe maximum speed" for a given caliber.

There is only a safe maximum pressure.

At that safe maximum pressure, a lighter bullet will travel faster than a heavier bullet.

At a safe maximum pressure with any weight projectile, usually a longer barrel will yield a faster speed than a shorter barrel. There is a point of diminishing return.

Safe maximum pressure is set in the United States by an industry governing body called SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute).

Commercial loaders and powder manufacturers test their loads in special pressure barrels to insure that these loads do not exceed SAAMI maximum pressure for a given cartridge. These barrels are fitted with electronic sensors that measure pressure during the projectiles internal travel from breech to muzzle

The Powder manufacturers then publish the safe information for today's modern hand loader

If those maximum pressure levels are exceeded anything from accelerated wear to total catastrophic self destruction of the firearm can result.

Obviously the level of damage is dependent on how much you exceed those maximums by and how often you repeat the foolish practice

 

[rburg]

You can't really state a safe speed for a caliber. There are safe speeds for various bullets. That one is based on bullet construction, and they give the best performance within a range of velocities. You can select the bullets to work where you want them to. But your rifle will have a specific twist in the rifling. So the rifle will stabilize only certain weights of bullets. Asking a 22-250 to shoot and be effective at 300 yards isn't a stretch. Of course the other problem is you hitting it.

My guess is you need to first buy some factory ammo and fire it at the 300 yard maximum range. If you do well with it, try to mimmick the load that worked for you. If its not accurate enough (often you get keyholing bullets or a huge group), try another brand and bullet weight. For most rifles, it doesn't take long to find a loading that seems to work for you.

The specifications for your rifle will usually state the rifling. From there you can determine the optimum weight. The bullet maker will usually specify what velocity the bullet should be used. And you can start with the loading manual to see what loads should give you the velocity desired.

I don't always start at the minimum suggested loads. Often those are given for people who don't want the fastest. For whatever reason, they're happier at lower velocities. Like if they've got bullets that might break up at fast speeds.

 

[Twoboxer]

I'd only add to colt saa's fine post that (safe) hot loads stress and wear all components - brass and firearm - more than lighter loads. Always choose the lighter, accurate load if it can do the intended job.

 

[rwsmith]

Pick the bullet....

Pick the best bullet you want to use on coyotes at 300 yards. Then select a powder that will give you the velocity you want. Something in a decent reloading manual will be just what you want or at least close. Whatever load you want, max or otherwise, start low and work up your loads in small increments looking for signs of overpressure. Flat shooting loads are good, but bullet drop is predictable so you aren't losing a lot if you decide on a less than max load. Max loads are seldom the most accurate loads. One option is that you can use an online external ballistics calculator like this one to give some indication of bullet drop at certain distances:

ShootersCalculator.com

There are others, pick one to suit you. They aren't exact, but if I'm working on a new load I like to have an idea what to expect.

 

[Nevada Ed]

The standard barrel twist for the 22-250 is 1:14 but there are some barrels as fast* as 1:10 made for the heavier 60gr plus bullets.

Some will shoot the light 40gr to 52gr bullets well but the standard to buck the wind and give the best over all performance is the 55gr bullet.
It also works great on "Yotes" and if you go for the pelts the 55gr FMJ does little damage to the pelt.

32grs of 4895 with be around 3,000 fps for a nice light load
while many powders will kick out 3500 fps while well under a maximum load. H380 was designed for this load but most medium powders will work for you and there is lots of data on this caliber to help you.

"Hot Loads" will work but this cartridge is so fast, it still does well at only 90% of maximum loads on most of your shooting and you will get more loads out of a pound of powder.

Good shooting.

 

[lebomm]

Ed,
A 1:10 twist is faster than a 1:14.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Dah............Yea................
I knew that.......

Funny how the mind works when you get older.
Sorry about that.

Heck while I am here.......
I will toss in that my 1:14 is ok with the 52 bthp and better with the speer 55 sp and ok with a 60gr nosler, hates the 63 gr sierra but will group the 70gr Speer at 100 yards ....... 4 @ .45 c/o 3260fps.
However at 200 yards the 70gr opens up to 4 @ 1.47".

If it is good at 100 yards double check your load at 200 yards to see if the twist works for that bullet.

Later, sports fans.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Before you go any further:

The ABCs Of Reloading: The Definitive Guide for Novice to Expert: Rodney James: 9781440213960: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51fVqjMi0rL.@@AMEPARAM@@51fVqjMi0rL

Find a copy and read it front to back.

 

[kwselke]

My Model 70 Varmint 26", 1:14 loves 52, 53, and 55 grain varmint bullets. Stick a 55 grain FMJ in it and the 200 yard groups go from well under an inch to 4-6".

 

[Silvergoose]

Many thanks to all that have given their insight. While I do not plan to exceed safe loads as a new kid on the block it is always a good idea to ask questions of the ones that have been there.

Thanks again.

 

[H Richard]

I will recommend the Nosler 55 gr. Ballistic tip bullet in front of a half grain less than the posted load on the Varget container. My Rem 700 VS will shoot into 1/4" at 100 with this load and Fed 210M primers seated within .015" of touching the rifling. This develops 3650 fps and is more than enough to handle any coyote. I taken hundreds of Prairie dogs out to 500 yards with this load.

 

[venomballistics]

max speed is determined by the bullet.
if it is of thin jacketed construction, some tend to fragment in flight.
it results in a miss, and is no real crisis.
More likely, an over speed bullet results in the bullet disintegrating on impact. This can be a handy thing when you want to eliminate carry over. embrace this fact.
IIRC, the absolute speed limit is something like 7500 FPS, which is encountered by a few wildcats built on the more power/ hold my beer and watch this theory, such as a 50BMG necked to 338. or anything equally insane.
the limit is due to the expansion rate of the gas produced by the spent powder.

you have little to fear from velocity.
Your primary concern is chamber pressure.

 

[bigedp51]

There is no such thing as a "safe maximum speed" for a given caliber.

There is only a safe maximum pressure.

That is incorrect and bullet manufactures even put warnings on the boxes about velocity and twist. You read about this all the time when people grab the wrong box of bullets and they disintegrate after leaving the barrel.

Also bullets are designed to have optimal performance between a given velocity range. So you wouldn't use a 30-30 bullet with a softer lead core and thinner jacket in a .300 Winchester Magnum for shooting a irate grizzly bear.

 

[bigedp51]

And always remember, the green tip bullets are for only shooting Zombies and the red tip is for everything else.

But you would already know this if you watched "The Walking Dead" on Sunday nights on AMC.

And remember to match the bullet weight to the correct twist rate for making those head shots at long range.

If you don't then your going to need more 30 round mags and take a chance of Zombies eating your brains.

Sorry, the Sheriff and his son went through a few 30 round ammo dumps before getting things under control Sunday night. And one of you should donate a good S&W to the Sheriff so he would get rid of his Colt Python.

 

[colt_saa]

That is incorrect and bullet manufactures even put warnings on the boxes about velocity and twist. You read about this all the time when people grab the wrong box of bullets and they disintegrate after leaving the barrel.

Also bullets are designed to have optimal performance between a given velocity range. So you wouldn't use a 30-30 bullet with a softer lead core and thinner jacket in a .300 Winchester Magnum for shooting a irate grizzly bear.

You are referring to a maximum speed for a particular projectile.

Or matching a projectile design based on your intended target.

The Original poster's question was if there was a maximum speed for a particular caliber or cartridge. There is no such maximum speed set by any governing body involved in the production of ammunition in the United States

Most disintegration in flight has nothing to do with forward speed of the projectile. It is centrifugal force that causes the projectile to come apart in flight.

 

[bigedp51]

You are referring to a maximum speed for a particular projectile.

Or matching a projectile design based on your intended target.

The Original poster's question was if there was a maximum speed for a particular caliber or cartridge. There is no such maximum speed set by any governing body involved in the production of ammunition in the United States

Most disintegration in flight has nothing to do with forward speed of the projectile. It is centrifugal force that causes the projectile to come apart in flight.

The speed does control if the bullet disintegrates, shoot a thin jacketed bullet at lower velocities and it gets to the target. RPM is based on velocity/speed and again this is mentioned many times by competitive shooters talking about bullets disintegrating at given velocities.

And the Sierra and Hornady manuals give you muzzle velocity range of its bullets.

Examples:
Hornady .224 #2229 1500-3100 fps
Hornady .224 #2240 SP SX 2000-3400 fps
Hornady .224 #22261 V-Max 2000-4200 fps

So your wrong again! And the bullet manufactures set the speed limits by design. RTFM

Calculating Bullet RPM ? Spin Rates and Stability « Daily Bulletin

 

[colt_saa]

The speed does control if the bullet disintegrates, shoot a thin jacketed bullet at lower velocities and it gets to the target. RPM is based on velocity/speed and again this is mentioned many times by competitive shooters talking about bullets disintegrating at given velocities.

And the Sierra and Hornady manuals give you muzzle velocity range of its bullets.

Examples:
Hornady .224 #2229 1500-3100 fps
Hornady .224 #2240 SP SX 2000-3400 fps
Hornady .224 #22261 V-Max 2000-3400 fps

So your wrong again! And the bullet manufactures set the speed limits by design. RTFM

Calculating Bullet RPM ? Spin Rates and Stability « Daily Bulletin

Shoot a thin jacket projectile at a slower rotational velocity and it gets to target. It is not the forward speed that caused the projectile to break apart, it is the centrifugal force.

There are no bullet manufacturers that set maximum speeds based on caliber or cartridge. Manufactures set maximum speed based on a specific projectile design.

 

[RichardDBeck]

Most disintegration in flight has nothing to do with forward speed of the projectile. It is centrifugal force that causes the projectile to come apart in flight.

I would have to disagree. As an engineer who has spent lots of time making projectiles go supersonic and hyper-sonic. Frictional drag in the air can cause disintegration of and object.

I've shot a ping-pong ball through a piece of .250" thick plywood. I would post the high speed footage but the last time I posted a video I got in trouble.

We continued to increasing the speed of the ping pong ball until the friction in the air disintegrated the ball in flight. We did not use a rifle barrel and the ball was not spinning.

I've spent weeks on this project and captured lots of high speed footage. It was a lot of fun.

 

[colt_saa]

I would have to disagree. As an engineer who has spent lots of time making projectiles go supersonic and hyper-sonic. Frictional drag in the air can cause disintegration of and object.

I've shot a ping-pong ball through a piece of .250" thick plywood. I would post the high speed footage but the last time I posted a video I got in trouble.

We continued to increasing the speed of the ping pong ball until the friction in the air disintegrated the ball in flight. We did not use a rifle barrel and the ball was not spinning.

I've spent weeks on this project and captured lots of high speed footage. It was a lot of fun.

I stand corrected. Allow me to rephrase

Most in flight disintegration of traditional sporting firearms metallic cartridge projectiles that are fired through rifled barrels has nothing to do with the forward speed of the projectile. It is centrifugal force that causes the projectile to come apart in flight.

This statement by no means rules out the ability of an individual to intentionally cause a projectile to disintegrate solely from forward motion

 

[DR505]

FYI - Nosler Reloading Guide #7 gives loading data for .22-250 Slow twist (1 in 14) and Fast twist (1 in 8) barrels.

 

[fredj338]

Well you are not really going to get much more than 4000fps & that will be with a super light 35gr bullet. There are bullet construction limits, but most bullets made will stay together up to 3800fps+ IME. Back in the day I had a 220swift, easily pushed 45gr bullets to 4100fps & occasionally one would come apart in flight, but no harm to the gun or shooter.
Mono metal & bonded bullets can be driven at insane speeds, but accuracy should be your goal, not pure vel.

 

[scooter123]

The 22-250 was originally developed with the intent of producing muzzle velocities as high as 4000 fps and history has shown that it was a success at meeting this goal. History has also shown that 4000 fps muzzle velocities are hard on the chamber and bore with barrels needing replacement after as few as 2000 rounds fired. Since I don't like throwing dollar bills downrange I would load this cartridge towards the lower end of the range and look for a bullet that provides the required accuracy between 3000 and 3200 fps.

PS; Something about that title just wakes up the Nonsense Answer urge in my. So, in response to what is "safe", I do believe that if you fire a bullet at 1/4 the Speed of Light or more you may produce enough Kinetic energy that the result could look rather Nuclear. So, to be really safe try and keep the velocities under 1/20 C.

 

[RichardDBeck]

This statement by no means rules out the ability of an individual to intentionally cause a projectile to disintegrate solely from forward motion

I would also agree that a spinning bullet would reach disintegration velocity faster then one that is not spinning because of compounding of motion which should increase frictional drag. Another big factor is drag while inside the barrel. No two barrels are exactly the same. All in all I think it's impossible to find a one size fits all to the "How fast is too fast" question. The answer will be specific to each gun and projectile.

Side note. most people believe the spinning of the bullet cuts down on frictional drag and helps the bullet go farther. Not true. It gyroscopically stabilizes the bullet and keeps it from tumbling. In the case of a ball it keep it from developing a rotation that's not axially parallel to the bore of the gun allowing the bullet to fly straight.

If you want to go waaaaay beyond 4000 FPS you'll need an upgraded barrel. Then you'll need a tungsten projectile. You'll then need to seal up the barrel (clear packing tape works) and pull a vacuum on the barrel of the gun, and fire your new tungsten projectile through the vacuum.