Misrepresented S&W Revolvers on Gunbroker

kbm6893

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I won't give his name, because that might violate forum rules, but if you go over to gunbroker and type in S&W 65, you'll see two very bright and shiney model 65 3" revolvers. Seller advertises them as 100%, but they have been polished to a mirror shine, hiding any use that they probably had (I'm thinking PD trade in's). He had one for sale in April that he advertised as new and never fired, but he had no box or papers for it. He's been selling these mirror bright stainless S&W's for a while. He had a similar 64 a few months back. He indicates that he will ship overnight fedex( $50) from an individual, but will ship through an FFL if the buyer requests it, for an extra $25 I emailed him asking how much shipped from his FFL, because they can ship USPO priority mail, and he said $75. Now, I ship a LOT of guns. My FFl doesn't even charge me for the transaction if I'm shipping OUT, only IN to him. Even if his does require it, it would be $25 MAX to ship USPO, plus the FFL fee of $25, for a total of $50. When I pointed that out to him, he said i should find another FFL since using an FFL is a "problem" for him. We exchanged a bunch of emails, with him accusing me of not being able to afford it, since I'm haggling over $20 for a "$1000 gun". This guy will rip you off. Stay away from him.
 
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Yup. A guy and his buffing wheel. He didn't even take the time to clean the hammer checkering and the nicks are clear in the picture. Read the negatives on GB, it tells the tale.
 
I clicked on his other ads and he had a lot of guns for sale. How does he have that many guns for sale and not be a FFL? You would think the ATF would be all over him. Don
 
He has a 66 on there now adverised as a "safe queen" that doesn't even have factory wood. It looks like Hogue grips. No box or papers, of course. You can still see the scratches in the finish.
 
Personally, I'm not a fan of the high polish stainless whether factory or not, so I wouldn't be a buyer of any of his guns.
 
He's savvy enough to have changed his wording, though. In April, the 64 he was selling was "new in box", even though it had that super shine treatment. When I called him out on it, he got nasty, as usual, and then changed the wording to "as new in box". He uses the phrase "100% Finish", not 100%.

Using a postal money order gives you certain protections, as well. If you knowingly misrepresent an item you have for sale and accept a postal money order as payment, the postal inspector can nail your ***. If you wanted to screw him, you would simply have to get the letter from S&W detailing when the gun was made and where it was shipped. When they come back and tell you the gun was shipped to some police department in 1989, and he's selling them as "100% Finish", and "pristine", you could tell the postal inspector that he misrepresented the 22 year old gun you just bought for $850 as something it is not. Of course, he's counting on the new buyer NOT knowing these things.

If anyone else is pissed at this guy, head over to GB and find one of his auctions. he has dozens. Click the "ask seller a question", and ask him why he is billing these guns the way he is. Ask him why they needed to be polished so much, or where the original grips went. Tell him that buffing them to that degree removes metal, which could be dangerous when he's removing metal from the cylinder, increasing the cylinder gap.

My guess from his dopey screen name (fallen angel) is he's a kid, probably mid twenties, who grew up with Glocks and has no idea how a S&W should look. He probably has a father or uncle who got him into guns, and turned him onto flipping these older used guns for a profit. If you read his feedback, the last guy he BOUGHT from had a problem with him. Seems this crook wanted to return the gun he bought (probably to buff and flip) because he felt the "condition was mis-represented". Can you believe the balls on this guy! So the guy offers him a refund (something this crook won't do) upon receipt of the gun. He doesn't mail it back, and the guy had to call the ATF since his gun, which hadn't legally changed ownership yet, was still in limbo and registered to him. If you read the exchanges between the two, first he says he mailed the gun back but the POST OFFICE must have lost it! Then he comes back later and says "I didn't mail the gun, true. But I didn't know it hadn't been mailed" He insists on YOU paying for fed-ex, now somehow when HE has to mail it back, he goes the cheaper post office route, I guess through an FFL. So when it saves HIM a buck, he'll go through the hassle of using an FFL, but when YOU'RE paying for shipping, he's gotta ship fed-ex overnight because the use of an FFL is "difficult for him". And how do you NOT follow up with your FFL if you're shipping a gun?

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Good luck on getting the Postal Inspector to do anything. It's just another useless agency that ought to be shut down. I was told when they get "enough" complaints they would look into stuff like that. The wouldn't say how many was "enough".
 
Those look like Grand Blue stocks on the 65. They are pretty cheap and I know since I bought some. Those don't even fit as good as mine. And they are labeled as "cocobolo" when I don't even think they offer that. This is a scary thing to see being done.

The P-38 is my favorite one so far...
 
Does everything stainless from this seller get polished?

When you have police trade-ins with holster wear and dings and you wanna sell them to some poor guy who doesn't know better, you gotta polish them to hide the flaws.
 
When you have police trade-ins with holster wear and dings and you wanna sell them to some poor guy who doesn't know better, you gotta polish them to hide the flaws.

Oh I know that. My question was rhetorical, as every stainless steel gun he has for sale seems to have the same finish. ;)
 
I filed a fraud complaint on him at gunbroker.com. I hope they pull his account. I'm sure he'll pop up again under a different name, but he'll lose his positive feedbacks, and when I see those same pictures under a different name, I'll file another one on him. Let him earn his money honestly, not by ripping people off.
 
That's an awful lot of sales for someone who is not a dealer. He should hope the ATF boys in Florida have other fish to fry.
 
That's an awful lot of sales for someone who is not a dealer. He should hope the ATF boys in Florida have other fish to fry.

Yeah. if you're not an FFL, you can't profit more than 10% of your earned income selling guns. If he's making $100,000 a year at his regular job (if he even has one), he can't profit more than $10,000. Selling $2500 guns will sure make him hit that $10,000 mark. He bought a gun from another seller that he was unhappy with because it was mis-represented. Imagine the balls on this guy! The seller offered a refund, something this crook doesn't offer, and the crook said he mailed the gun back. The gun never arrives, and he tells the guy the post office must have lost it, and he wants his money back. The guy has to call the ATF on him because the gun he shipped is still in his name, and the guy emails him back with 'Oh wait. I thought I mailed it, but I didn't". So he'll use an FFL to ship BACK to the guy he bought from since it's cheaper for him, but he'll insist YOU pay for overnight fed-ex.
 
I'm still trying to get over his P-38. It's listed as 99% has the barrel chopped off, threaded, no front sight, blued parts, polished parts, and he wants real money for it... I'm dying each time I look...
 
Good luck on getting the Postal Inspector to do anything. It's just another useless agency that ought to be shut down. I was told when they get "enough" complaints they would look into stuff like that. The wouldn't say how many was "enough".

This!^


I filed a fraud complaint on him at gunbroker.com. I hope they pull his account.

And Good Luck with this also. ^

I'll give 10 to 1 that absolutely nothing comes of your complaint.
 
This!^




And Good Luck with this also. ^

I'll give 10 to 1 that absolutely nothing comes of your complaint.

You're right. They just emailed back saying "if you think he's misrepresenting the item, don't bid". Looks like I just cancelled my gunbroker account. For them to be complicit in dishonesty like this makes me not want to give them a dime ever again.
 
I'm still trying to get over his P-38. It's listed as 99% has the barrel chopped off, threaded, no front sight, blued parts, polished parts, and he wants real money for it... I'm dying each time I look...

Maybe an email to the ATF is in order. For a private seller to be selling this many guns has gotta be wrong. And your post proves my point. I don't know anything about P-38's. I wouldn't know it's screwed up.
 
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