Model 10 snub nose 357

[Rolandag2]

So, I bought a JG model 10 with a barrel and had a model 10 2" barrel and a model 19 cylinder. So, you know what comes next. I installed the 19 cylinder and fitted it and fitted the barrel. Everything fits good and carry up is good and lock up is good as well. What are your thoughts on shooting 357 from the 2" snub model 10, of course not all the time but every now and then. Let me here y'all's input or criticism or admonishments on performing this modification

 

[Double-O-Dave]

What are your thoughts on shooting 357 from the 2" snub model 10, of course not all the time but every now and then. Let me here y'all's input or criticism or admonishments on performing this modification

A nice feature to have, but completely unnecessary as I found in shooting .357 Magum ammo from my 2.5 inch barreled Model 66-3. I'd do it if I were you as you already have the tools, time and skills to do so, but I bet I'd only plan on carrying standard velocity ammo in it. I also own and carry a Marlin 1894C lever action carbine chambered in .357 Magnum that will chamber and fire either .38 Special or .357 Magnum ammo- and makes an excellent small to medium sized game getter (coons, hogs, turkeys) and I usually carry both loaded with 158 gr. LSWC .357 Magnum ammo and or the 158 fr. JHP which is my usual hunting round vs the standard velocity plinking round in standard velocity ammo.

Good luck,

Dave

 

[sigp220.45]

I think you'd be fine shooting magnums. They will offer a significant improvement over .38 loads.

 

[Muley Gil]

If you were to shoot a lot of .357 cartridges, I would expect some frame stretching over time, since Model 10 frames didn't receive the heat treating that was done to Magnum frames. I wouldn't shoot a lot of light (125 grain and less) bulleted .357s through it either.

 

[ruger 22]

I would have a competent gunsmith check it for proper alignment and overall functioning before I would consider using any ammo since this is a different cylinder and barrel.

 

[Old_Cop]

Nice job, shoot mostly .38 Specials like with a model 19.

 

[Igiveup]

In theory, what is the difference between this revolver and a Model 19? Both K frames, set up to shoot .357 loads. I wouldn't make a steady diet of the .357 rounds, but should be a nice revolver.

 

[BC38]

If you were to shoot a lot of .357 cartridges, I would expect some frame stretching over time, since Model 10 frames didn't receive the heat treating that was done to Magnum frames. I wouldn't shoot a lot of light (125 grain and less) bulleted .357s through it either.

This makes me wonder about my 13-1 which was built on a 10-6 frame (see attached pics for evidence of the overstamping).
So did S&W re-heat-treat this 10-6 frame when they decided to make a 357 magnum 13-1 out of it?
Or did they accept the liability of shipping a 357 magnum with an improperly heat-treated 38 special frame?
Or are all 38 special and 357 magnum frames heat treated the same?
I really can't think of any other possible options, and I know which one I would guess to be the case, but I'll defer to the knowledge of the experts on the question.

 

[Muley Gil]

This makes me wonder about my 13-1 which was built on a 10-6 frame (see attached pics for evidence of the overstamping).
So did S&W re-heat-treat this 10-6 frame when they decided to make a 357 magnum 13-1 out of it?
Or did they accept the liability of shipping a 357 magnum with an improperly heat-treated 38 special frame?
Or are all 38 special and 357 magnum frames heat treated the same?
I really can't think of any other possible options, and I know which one I would guess to be the case, but I'll defer to the knowledge of the experts on the question.

Everything I have read indicates that the M10-6 .38 frames received extra heat treating before they were built into .357s. Dr Jinks has stated several times that Magnum revolvers received different heat treatment from non-Magnum revolvers.

 

[BC38]

Everything I have read indicates that the M10-6 .38 frames received extra heat treating before they were built into .357s. Dr Jinks has stated several times that Magnum revolvers received different heat treatment from non-Magnum revolvers.

Interesting. So then in this case they would have had to pull a finished frame out of production - or possibly even disassemble a finished gun (since it was finished right down to the point of having the model number stamped in the yoke cut), run it back through the heat treating process, reblue it, restamp it, and then assemble it as a 13-1. Seems like an awful lot of rework...

 

[Muley Gil]

Interesting. So then in this case they would have had to pull a finished frame out of production - or possibly even disassemble a finished gun (since it was finished right down to the point of having the model number stamped in the yoke cut), run it back through the heat treating process, reblue it, restamp it, and then assemble it as a 13-1. Seems like an awful lot of rework...

These were several thousand revolvers built for the New York State Troopers in 1972. With that big of an order, I'm sure S&W would do what they needed to do to fill it. The company has been receptive to giving law enforcement contracts what they wanted.

The M13-1 was introduced in 1974.

 

[ddixie884]

Most run of the mill .357 ammo is not near as hot as the original. Any K-frame 357 is best used with ammo more akin to .38-44 styles. I would not be afraid to shoot the revolver that is the subject of this thread with W-W or Rem-Umc 158gr factory ammo or Golden Sabre 125gr.......
I'll bet it will give low fps with that 2" barrel and noise and flames. Sounds like fun..........

 

[Engine49guy]

This is from my foggy memory but IIRC prior to the 10-6 (HB model 10 in .357) the SW .357 choices either had target sights or were built on the N frame as the Model 13 didnt exist yet.

Once SW adopted the .357 M&P as a standard cataloged item it kinda made sense to give it a new model number and Wallah...the Model 13 is born.

The exception as that there were a small amount of fixed site Model 19-3's produced, they are distinguishable from the Model 13 because they had the same style shrouded ejector rod barrel as the Model 19 but without the raised FS ramp.

As with many SW things years later it didnt make much sense when they made the same gun in SS but introduced as the Model 65 Lady Smith.....

 

[steelslaver]

Fire away, I have 3 model 10 357s

 

[stansdds]

Safe? Most likely, yes.
Pleasant? Not very likely.
I think you quickly grow to appreciate the 38 Special +P, especially loads designed for short barreled revolvers.

 

[colt_saa]

What are your thoughts on shooting 357 from the 2" snub model 10, of course not all the time but every now and then. Let me here y'all's input or criticism or admonishments on performing this modification

Model 10s have been made across ~65 years of different metalurgy and machining techniques

If your back is up against the wall and all you have within arms reach is a round of 357 Magnum and you are about to lose your life anyway . . . . . . Sure go ahead and shoot it

If you mean just for kicks . . . . . not a chance in Hell

If you want to shoot a Magnum go and buy a Magnum

 

[Eddietruett]

In theory, what is the difference between this revolver and a Model 19? Both K frames, set up to shoot .357 loads. I wouldn't make a steady diet of the .357 rounds, but should be a nice revolver.

According to one of the most respected gunsmiths in the country, there is no difference. He has reamed many model 10's to 357 for LEO's that for political reason were forbidden to carry a "magnum " back when revolvers were carried by cops. Granted today with new developments in 38+P ammo, the advantage is not as significant, but compared to the old 158gr Lead Round Nose issued ammo back then, the difference was considerable.

 

[GerSan69]

I like what you did! I have a 10-10 that now has a .357 cylinder and a factory 3" barrel. I have no plans to shoot magnum ammunition out of it, but I wouldn't be afraid to if the ammo were to find its way into my safe...
By the way, I have 2 of the J&G frames that will become 2" and 5" whenever I get around to it. Again, nice job!

 

[BC38]

These were several thousand revolvers built for the New York State Troopers in 1972. With that big of an order, I'm sure S&W would do what they needed to do to fill it. The company has been receptive to giving law enforcement contracts what they wanted.

The M13-1 was introduced in 1974.

I'm not clear on your statements.

If the 13-1 wasn't produced until 1974, what model was it that the NY State Troopers ordered in 1972? A 10-6? A 13 no dash (if there is such a thing?).

I'm trying to see how a large order placed in 1972 - two years before mine could have been built in 1974 - has anything to do with them using a 10-6 frame to build a 13-1 two years after the large order was filled.

I'm thoroughly confused now. But what's new?

 

[Glashaus]

50 years from now somebody will be posting on this Forum that they just picked up an ultra rare M10 snub nose chambered in .357 and what is it worth

 

[stansdds]

50 years from now somebody will be posting on this Forum that they just picked up an ultra rare M10 snub nose chambered in .357 and what is it worth

LOL!!!!! Truth!

 

[Muley Gil]

I'm not clear on your statements.

If the 13-1 wasn't produced until 1974, what model was it that the NY State Troopers ordered in 1972? A 10-6? A 13 no dash (if there is such a thing?).

I'm trying to see how a large order placed in 1972 - two years before mine could have been built in 1974 has anything to do with them using a 10-6 frame to build a 13-1 two years after the large order was filled.

I'm thoroughly confused now. But what's new?

The NYST wanted a M10-6, but wanted it in .357 Magnum, not .38 special only. S&W took M10-6 frames, heat treated them, fitted M19 cylinders and shortened M10 heavy barrels and stamped them ".357".

Two years later, S&W decided there was a market for a heavy barreled, fixed sight K frame .357 Magnum. They took the NYST revolver, dubbed it the M13 and the rest is history.

 

[Muley Gil]

I'm not clear on your statements.

If the 13-1 wasn't produced until 1974, what model was it that the NY State Troopers ordered in 1972? A 10-6? A 13 no dash (if there is such a thing?).

I'm trying to see how a large order placed in 1972 - two years before mine could have been built in 1974 has anything to do with them using a 10-6 frame to build a 13-1 two years after the large order was filled.

I'm thoroughly confused now. But what's new?

I just now realized-it takes me a while sometimes-that I have been answering questions you didn't ask.

To answer you question-if your revolver is 13 stamped over 10, the most likely scenario is that it was miss-stamped. I have seen several where 29 was stamped over 28, both in person and here on the forum.

 

[chief38]

OK - you asked so here here's my opinion.......


First off a 2" bbl. doesn't do much for Magnum loads! In the 158 grain version some of the Buffalo Bore +P .38 Spl. loads are actually faster than the Factory 357 Mag. loadings, so I see no reason for having a 2" gun chambered for the Magnum cartridge.

Secondly your M10 has no heat treating like todays guns do, so I would not fire Mag's from that particular gun - period! That's just MHO.......

Thirdly, without adjustable sights your poa/poi will be off.

All in all I don't really see the reasoning to do this - but to each his own. If you do actually fire Magnums from it, I'd strictly limit them to 158 grain weight and not do so more than just a VERY few times. Your M10 was just not designed for Magnums.

 

[steelslaver]

Secondly your M10 has no heat treating like todays guns do, so I would not fire Mag's from that particular gun - period! That's just MHO.......

The OP used a J&G frame and they are 10-7s which are very recent. .

I have made 2 of them into 357 using model 19 and 13 cylinders and they work fine. I will agree with you on the 2" barrel being a waste on a 357. Plus, I made a much older 10-2 into a 357 and it has maybe 1000 rounds through it and is just as tight to day as the day I put it together. If a frame was going to stretch it wouldn't take no 1000 round to show up. I have measure the hardness in a variety of S&W frames and all of them are close to the same hardness and that is the same hardness as mild steel.

Next up is a nickel pre model 15 that is going to get a 6" nickel Python barrel and a nickel model 19 cylinder.

 

[Dieseltech56]

I'm in the camp that doesn't believe there is any difference between K frames made in the time period where S&W was making 38 special alongside 357 magnum revolvers. I made a 64-5 and 10-8 into 357s. I had the 64-5 apart right next to a 65-5 and it would be impossible to tell either apart aside from the stampings.

That being said I would not be surprised if the cylinder was heat treated differently. Being the magnum cylinder is longer it would be impossible to mix them up. If you use an original magnum cylinder in the gun I would not be concerned.

The 357 magnum is hardly a hotrod cartidge by todays standards and modern guns are plenty strong.

 

[crstrode]

If you were to shoot a lot of .357 cartridges, I would expect some frame stretching over time, since Model 10 frames didn't receive the heat treating that was done to Magnum frames. I wouldn't shoot a lot of light (125 grain and less) bulleted .357s through it either.

Please share provenance of the lack of frame heat treatment in a Model 10.

 

[steelslaver]

Any heat treatment would have to occur after forging and prior to any finish tolerance machining. It is not about warping but about the change in the iron carbon bonds. You can take a perfectly cubed block and when you harden it will never remain a true cube. Then, it you machined it back into a perfect cube and ran it through temper cycles the shape would slightly change again. First after forging one should do a normalization cycle as the temperatures high enough for forging WILL cause grain growth, large grain is not as strong as fine grain. Normalizing will reset the size, then you need to heat it to critical and with 4140 that ois around 1500, then quench, put as it has some chrome you do not need a real rapid quench. This makes the carbon iron matrix for martensite which is stronger than pearlite, but after quench it have maximum hardness but a pile of internal stresses. Then you should do 2 temper cycles. A the frames are soft those cycles are somewhere over 850f. The temper cycles will reduce the internal stresses and cause that martensite reduce its structure. Once the heat treatment starts there are no real short cuts, I guess you could drop one temper cycle and save 2 hours on those frames. But, they are probably done in huge ovens that are flooded with an inert gas like argon or a argon nitrogen mix.

Why would you save a few bucks on 1/2 your frames and then spend the money making sure that they never ever get mixed up.? The lawyers would have a cow. If a 38 special built and stamped as a 38 special blew up and someone proved that they used a inferior HT I guarantee where any possible profit would end up.

I have my own PID controlled Heat tread oven that can do stepped HT, I have studied metallurgy and also had several regrinds who do it professionally. You go to welding on pipe with chrome content you had best stress relieve it before putting it into critical service. A revolve cylinder is a nothing, think of a 20' diameter 9 chrome sphere filled with raw naphtha and hydrogen at 900f. That baby lets go the blast area is gonna be HUGE and really ugly.

 

[Rolandag2]

I like what you did! I have a 10-10 that now has a .357 cylinder and a factory 3" barrel. I have no plans to shoot magnum ammunition out of it, but I wouldn't be afraid to if the ammo were to find its way into my safe...
By the way, I have 2 of the J&G frames that will become 2" and 5" whenever I get around to it. Again, nice job!

I have another JG sales gun that installed a model 65 cylinder and barrel onto I love that gun thinking about having it hard chromed or np3 or nickel but it shoots great

 

[Rolandag2]

The OP used a J&G frame and they are 10-7s which are very recent. .

I have made 2 of them into 357 using model 19 and 13 cylinders and they work fine. I will agree with you on the 2" barrel being a waste on a 357. Plus, I made a much older 10-2 into a 357 and it has maybe 1000 rounds through it and is just as tight to day as the day I put it together. If a frame was going to stretch it wouldn't take no 1000 round to show up. I have measure the hardness in a variety of S&W frames and all of them are close to the same hardness and that is the same hardness as mild steel.

Next up is a nickel pre model 15 that is going to get a 6" nickel Python barrel and a nickel model 19 cylinder.

Pictures sir and who may I ask did you get that barrel from [emoji3166]