Model 17 in .22 WMR? Enigma, Bubba, or ???

[cmansguns]

Hello Forum;

A guy contacted me knowing I like S & W wheelguns, and he said he had a Model 17 chambered in 22 WMR. I had never heard of a Model 17 in 22 Magnum so I asked about some things and with the "answers" I did "have to take a look".

Here is what I saw in person: Definitely a "former" Model 17, good bluing overall, s/n K 212XXX, s/n matching under barrel flat and butt (after removing Pachy "Gripper" grip). White outline rear square notch, front was some sort of "high viz" dot that didn't look factory.

OK......now the "issues":

Issue 1: 6 inch pinned barrel (remember...serial numbered to the gun) has roll stamp "22 Long Rifle"...clearly original factory. No mention anywhere of 22 WMR, or even 22 Magnum.
Issue 2: The cylinder...not marked anywhere with any s/n, ***'y marks, numbers, symbols....yet bluing looks original and consistent with rest of frame and barrel. The big problem: The recessing in each charge hole is "in the white" ...no bluing whatsoever, but also no rust so I'm thinking maybe a homemade recess job using what I don't know, probably an end mill because finish machine marks are very smooth with mag glass.
Issue 3: In the yoke with cylinder swung out where one would normally see "Model 17 and maybe a dash", there is simply 3 letter stamps "MAG" but again bluing in and around the letters looks same as the cylinder and rest of frame, bbl, so I'm thinking not cold blue or re-blue but have not ever heard of factory marks like these.

Something is really afoot here...so just gathering thoughts and opinions. This very gun has been for sale for over 3 years..I have seen it before but had no interest then (at $1,000) or even 2 years later for ($800) or really.....even now when it has become "make me ANY offer at all...even as a parts gun!).

He knows I am a member of SWCA and I did say I would put some info out on the Forum just to see what comments come back from real experts, but since he has no provenance what so ever (took it on trade years ago...no paperwork at all still around) and I don't need "parts" I said it maybe even unsafe, so let's see what others have to say if they have ever heard or seen anything like it.

If any of you can tell me this is a genuine S&W factory experimental, once belonging personally to a known entity at S&W, and are sure it will letter as such......I'll offer $100 and take possession!

As usual.......thanks in advance for any replies, rebuttals, comments, opinions, horse laughs, guffas or whatever.

 

[fungunnin]

Sounds like a pre-17 converted to 22 WMR that would explain the bare metal mill marks on the cylinder face. This gun was made before model numbers so that why you aren't seeing any.
Purely a shooter only $500 tops.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[Dillyp]

did you check to see if it would actually chamber a .22 mag?

 

[cmansguns]

roger that on the pre-17, and no....I didn't check to see if it would actually chamber a .22 WMR round simply because I had no real interest in the gun....and still don't.

Just for my education for the future.....were these conversions even if done well by a competent gun smith "popular" at some period in time? Even if someone wanted to go through a lot of time, effort and $$ to get period correct stocks, sights, and a .22 LR cylinder.....you would still have a marked up "shooter" which is of no interest to me, but maybe there are a lot of these conversions out there that would make this one of interest to someone.

I am going to advise the man that he will clearly need to get off of the $800 horse and maybe ask the $500 per the above Post and be willing to take whatever to get it out his door after pushing 4 years now.

Thanks for the opinions and answers...I learn something every day when I get on this forum.

 

[fyimo]

I would tell the seller that this revolver is worthless as a collector gun and not all that great as a shooter. That is because it's for a round that the ammo is expensive and the ammo is hard to find. Then I would offer him $500 if you really want the revolver.

 

[BAM-BAM]

.22 magnum bullet diameter .224

.22lr bullet diameter....... .223

.22lr bore diameter is .217 and .222 at the groves.

I think the above #s are correct.....................so do you want to stuff a jacketed .22mag down a .22lr barrel ? .....pressure issue?

Remember reading long time ago (+30 years) that Ruger single six convertible barrels were; either a compromise or sized for the .22mag..... so sloppy for the .22lr

 

[jmace57]

I have one (a17-3) that the cylinder looked just like that and Bubba had x'ed thru the 22Long Rifle and added 22 Magnum to the barrel. It worked fine, but I acquired a replacement cylinder and yoke...and. replacement barrel which I have not replaced yet. I paid $350 for it about a year ago. Worth it to me at that price, but not a lot more.

 

[SuperMan]

My guess it is a rechamber because of the shiny rim area you described... Paco Kelly over on the LeverGun Forums has done quite a few...

I have a 70s vintage 17 with an extra 48 cylinder..it shoots great with both rounds... A friend purchased a mint Colt Diamondback and found an extra cylinder that he had rechambered to .22 Magnum...

Bob

 

[steelslaver]

Firing a .224 lead bullet down a .22 or ,223 barrel is nothing. Guys fire .454 bullets and larger out of 45 colts with oversized throats all the time and the bore is not oversized. PO Ackely did experiments where he fired .338 bullets down a 308 bore with no excess pressure as long as the chamber and throat was set up to fit the 338. Lead and copper jacketed bullets swedge down immediately. Where people blow guns up with over sized bullets is when a small case with a large bullet and the bullet tip holds the round so that the primer is struck. The case swells in the way oversized chamber and force of flow is all wrong, worse situation than gross headspace as the case will not form a seal and gas and pressure esapes the wrong ways. Loading a 318 bullet in say a 30-06 case isn't a problem because of the 308 bore size, but, is because the chamber will clamp the bullet in the brass if the neck was opened to for the case neck and throat handled the 318 bullet all would work.

Here is a quote on Ackely's findings
"Wrong ammo can destroy a rifle—a shorter case can split and bleed high-pressure gas into the action. But if the cartridge seals the chamber, the pressure will go down the barrel, swaging an oversize bullet as it goes. Ackley took a standard .30-06 chamber, enlarged the throat to .35, seated .35-caliber bullets into that .30-06, and fired them through the .30-caliber bore. With standard .30-06 loads, the .35-caliber bullets resized and passed with no signs of excess pressure. However, wrong-dimension brass can let gas escape with dramatic results."

 

[retiredbadge8091]

I'm thinking there are probably enough Model 48's out there to make this a "no deal..." If you want a 17 buy one if you want a 48 buy one of those.

 

[merl67]

The pressure in this setup would be a non issue, accuracy might be though . If he would let you shoot it and it shot well enough I would buy it at $350-400 maybe a tad more, but I have a 22 mag lever gun that it would make a great companion to, and all I have is shooters.

 

[oger]

I picked up a real nice one that had the same thing done K379XX it has a stamp added next to the assembly numbers that appears to be Q4 nothing under the grips or anything to indicate a factory job the price was right $400 for a toy.

 

[cmansguns]

Like I said before...........no interest on my part...maybe it will sit another 4 plus years or someone may come along who thinks it is worth whatever....just not me.

At family "outdoor dinners" (BBQ but not REAL S & W BBQ's) over at son's mini-farm I usually bring the Ruger for the younger ones (20 somethings) who like to belt up with a Galco western rig, pop in the 22 Mag cylinder and bang away (just a little louder then the wussy 22 LR in their opinion).

22WMR factory is just too $$$ for any sustained useage, but fun while it lasts. They like the Zombie splatter targets but have to bring their own (also $$$).