Model 3 American

[steelslaver]

My one brother called me and said he was looking at a S&W model 3 44 American. Guy says its a Scoffield. Brother says nickel with wood stocks, 111xx serial number. Asked about hammer, trigger and he said and off blue, maybe case hardened he is not sure. Guy wants $2000.

I am going to be there next week. Am interested, but basically dumb as a post when it come to these old top breaks. Help.

What do I look for? How much finish loss is acceptable at this price? Know to look under grips for factory rework marking. Flattened pins and stud ends from polishing etc.

Is there anyone who would be willing to help me out if I called them while looking at it. Be great to have one just don't want to buy something that's messed up and not worth it.

 

[wormey]

$2000 is not an unreasonable price for a model 3 44 American.....BUT!!!...Details matter! Do your homework....is it all original, does it function properly, has it been refinished, is it beat up and abused....nobody can answer these questions without seeing it. If anyone does they are a fool. These are very desirable pieces primarily because of their rarity and the romance surrounding them and their use in the old west and by the military. That being said, go on line....look at pictures. If you can get a good look at it, make some notes and ask questions here. Are the barrel markings clear, any other markings on it? I hope you get it, but be careful. Wormey

 

[mmaher94087]

If .. it is an American, it would be a Second Model. If.. it is a Schofield then it is modern manufactured as the original Schofield was serial numbered to about 9,000. Pictures would help us immensely.

 

[steelslaver]

No way would I buy something like this without a hard look. I will be going to the area it is at next week. I will check in with some photos and more information before laying out any cash. Somethings I can spot. Know to look for various serial numbers. The only up to 9000 serial number thing is good to know as is the second model thing. I will do some reading in my SW book.

Book says nickel Schofields very rare, plus they were 45s. I already see some things not quite right.

 

[les.b]

Well, the SCSW #4 says that the serial range on the first model Schofield is 1-3035, and the second model is from 3036-8969. So 111XX seems to be too high. But it could be in the "New Model Number Three family, which seems to run from 1-35796, and was made from 1878-1912.

But I don't know any more than you do, just looked it up in the book....im sure some one will be along soon!!

This is one I would be extra careful on.

Best Regards, Les

 

[model3sw]

My one brother called me and said he was looking at a S&W model 3 44 American. Guy says its a Scoffield. Brother says nickel with wood stocks, 111xx serial number. Asked about hammer, trigger and he said and off blue, maybe case hardened he is not sure. Guy wants $2000.

I am going to be there next week. Am interested, but basically dumb as a post when it come to these old top breaks. Help.

What do I look for? How much finish loss is acceptable at this price? Know to look under grips for factory rework marking. Flattened pins and stud ends from polishing etc.

Is there anyone who would be willing to help me out if I called them while looking at it. Be great to have one just don't want to buy something that's messed up and not worth it.

You're surely mis-informed. Not every top break is a Schofield. (Say COPY, don't say XEROX). If you post a few sharply focus pictures here you will be amazed with the plethora of information you will have at your fingertips.

I learned many years ago to collect only those items I have experience with. Leave antique copper tally whackers to a guy that collects them.

 

[glowe]

As mentioned by Sal, one of the most copied S&Ws out there are Model 3s. I would wonder if the caliber is 44-40 and the barrel stamping is a mis-spelled Schofield?

I have a Belgium copy in 44-40 and an interesting barrel stamping. Some copies are almost identical to the original, others like mine are a little off in dimensions and shape.

Another issue is non-matching parts. You will often find Model 3s with salvaged parts from other guns to make them whole and functional. Nothing wrong with that, except none would be worth anywhere near $2000. This model did not stamp major parts with the serial number, but rather assembly numbers or letter designations. Look first under the left stock at the butt-frame for a stamp. That will match the rear of the cylinder, the barrel assembly, and the top latch. The right stock will have the serial number stamped with the serial number as found on the butt. Good luck.

 

[steelslaver]

I have already got it figure that its not a Schofield and the owner is under the idea that any big topbreak SA is a Schofield.

I will proceed with caution and not drop any money on it until I see it first hand and post more information and pictures for the experts here.
I do know there are various copies, Russian made models from S&W equipment etc. Not an expert on refinishes, but do know a few of the signs. Not really in a position to drop 2K on a gun right now, but would for the right deal.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

The Schofield is a square butt gun while all the other large caliber top breaks are round butt guns. Also, the barrel latch is mounted to the frame and the latch is pulled toward the holder to unlatch the barrel instead of pulling up and away as on other large top breaks. Those are the two biggest clues to its ID that I know.

I suspect you won't find a Schofield with excellent finish as the majority were heavily used by the Army.

 

[crossv]

First Model Americans, First Model Russians and Second Model Americans all have square butts similar to Schofields. The barrel latch is the most easily distinguished feature to identify a Schofield since the latch operates by pulling to the rear while the American' latch opens upwards (as do the later New Model #3s).

 

[steelslaver]

Well I went and looked at it. Non original grips, very loose cylinder, hammer and trigger, blued to some kind of royal blue. Nickel is flaking and on top of that I could see buff marks around it especially around the screws. Really doubt it is even original nickel because of the buff marks.

Said, no thank you and walked away from it. My brother asked why and I told him, he then asked why I didn't say anything to owner. Answered " not my job to inform others about the problems with their prizes, only gets them upset". I once had a guy in a pawn shop pull a lady smith out of his safe and unwrap, it all proud. Just laying their I could see the S&W emblem buffed to very faint, nickeled hammer and trigger. I remarked that it had been renickled. You would have thought I had just bad mouthed his wife. Lesson learned. Just walk away.

 

[model3sw]

Well I went and looked at it. Non original grips, very loose cylinder, hammer and trigger, blued to some kind of royal blue. Nickel is flaking and on top of that I could see buff marks around it especially around the screws. Really doubt it is even original nickel because of the buff marks.

Said, no thank you and walked away from it. My brother asked why and I told him, he then asked why I didn't say anything to owner. Answered " not my job to inform others about the problems with their prizes, only gets them upset". I once had a guy in a pawn shop pull a lady smith out of his safe and unwrap, it all proud. Just laying their I could see the S&W emblem buffed to very faint, nickeled hammer and trigger. I remarked that it had been renickled. You would have thought I had just bad mouthed his wife. Lesson learned. Just walk away.

I think you made a smart move. After so many years collecting the Model 3s and repairing them, there is no "fix" for a worn out Model 3. I'm ok with one needing a mechanical repair or if it had a Factory refinish but the ones done sloppily, I have no patience. Worse when seller insists it was "original" or "factory" (and you know it is not), I just turn and say "thank you, but it is not for me".

And truly, asking price has nothing to do with it. If I don't like it I would not accept it as a gift. If I do like it, then we'll talk money, and if it is REALLY nice, we'll talk serious money.

I'm sure we've all been at the wrong end of a mis-informed seller or a teller of tall tales ( nice way to say, liar )