Model 48-4 Disappointment

cmr0323

cmr0323

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Today turned out to be a disappointing day. Two weeks ago I took delivery of a very nice Model 48-4 (s/n 221Kxxx), blued finish, 6" barrel, in it's original box, which I purchased from an online auction site. Today was the first opportunity that I've had to go to the range & I took this pistol along with two boxes of .22WMR ammunition. Much to my surprise & disappointment the ammunition would not load into the cylinder. It appears that, instead of a .22WMR cylinder, I have a .22LR cylinder. I've sent an email to the dealer who sold it but, of course, likely will not hear from him before Monday at the earliest.

I'm fairly new to S&W revolvers and entirely new to the Model 48, so I'd like to ask a couple of questions. First, I'd like to keep this pistol, rather than return it for a refund, but if I do keep it, how much trouble might I have in finding a .22WMR cylinder, and, second, how much might I expect to spend.

Thanks!

cmr
 
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Usually the opposite problem exists - someone with a .22 WMR revolver wants the LR cylinder. You should be able to find the WMR cylinder but it make take some searching; I would guess it would be about $75-100 with no data to back that up.

However, before you do that, make sure the chambers are very clean. Also, were you able to load LR rounds into it?
 
murphydog said:
Usually the opposite problem exists - someone with a .22 WMR revolver wants the LR cylinder. You should be able to find the WMR cylinder but it make take some searching; I would guess it would be about $75-100 with no data to back that up.

However, before you do that, make sure the chambers are very clean. Also, were you able to load LR rounds into it?
Click to expand...

That's good news. And, since S&W still is manufacturing M48's I guess I always could buy a new cylinder.

Yes, I can load .22LR cartridges without difficulty. I just used my calipers to check diameters (give or take a thousanth or so - my eyes aren't what they used to be) the inside diameter of the cylinder bore is 0.220". (My M17 measured about 0.220"). A .22LR cartridge measured 0.220 while a .22WMR cartridge measured 0.234".

(These aren't the same measurements that are given in the Wikipedia articles but I think that's just because my calipers are a little large for this task & I'm probably not getting an accurate measurment.)

Thanks!

cmr
 
If it were me I would return it and buy the right gun. You will spend more to fix it than you will like. I had a 48 with the extra LR cylinder and it was very inaccurate due to the larger WMR bore. Get the gun you want with all original parts and be happy.
 
If you like the gun try and find the correct Magnum cylinder for it... I have two 48s, one 4" and one 8 3/8" both with the extra Rimfire cylinder and they shoot great.

I also have a 17 that I found a 48 cylinder for and had it fitted by a local Smith-smith. All the guns shoot great with both Magnum and Long Rifle ammo....

The cylinder cost me $100 but was worth it....Bob
 
Last time I checked S&W wanted 200.00 for a new cylinder fitted to your gun . If thats stil the case I would go that route , because finding one here in Iowa seems to be next to impossible or outrageslly priced on the older ones .
 
lscocoa said:
Last time I checked S&W wanted 200.00 for a new cylinder fitted to your gun . If thats stil the case I would go that route , because finding one here in Iowa seems to be next to impossible or outrageslly priced on the older ones .
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe I'll keep this pistol & look for a new cylinder. I bought it at a reasonably good price and wouldn't mind investing a little more in it. Hopefully, I'll also get an adjustment from the dealer who sold it.

I'll post some pictures when I get a chance. :)

cmr
 
I would send the gun to Jim Stroh and have him ream out and polish the cylinder that you have to 22 Mag.
It would be a lot less than buying and refitting a new cylinder. Plus the 22 LR cylinder is almost useless in the larger bore 48s as far as accuracy.
 
moosedog said:
I would send the gun to Jim Stroh and have him ream out and polish the cylinder that you have to 22 Mag.
It would be a lot less than buying and refitting a new cylinder. Plus the 22 LR cylinder is almost useless in the larger bore 48s as far as accuracy.
Click to expand...

That's an option that hadn't occurred to me. I definitely will get in touch with him to find out how much it would cost and how long it would take. If I bought a new, 22 mag cylinder I'd end up with the 22LR cylinder, which I really don't need or want.

Thanks!

cmr
 
The dealer who sold it likely missed the fact that the 22LR cylinder was in it. He may be able to contact the widow (?) who sold it to him and see if she can locate the other cylinder. If not, he would owe you a significant amount of money back to make things right.
 
cmr0323 said:
That's an option that hadn't occurred to me. I definitely will get in touch with him to find out how much it would cost and how long it would take. If I bought a new, 22 mag cylinder I'd end up with the 22LR cylinder, which I really don't need or want.

Thanks!

cmr
Click to expand...

NO NO NO!!!! Think about future investment and look how much more 48s with the extra cylinder bring. Just put the LR cylinder away and one day you will either need it or it will really enhance the resale of the gun.

The typical 651 J-frame .22 Magnum goes for $600+-...I had one with the extra cylinder that brought $905.00. I have seen several more bring that since then.

As to the guns not shooting well with Long Rifles, you need to do some shooting to determine that. All of my 48s have shot just fine with Long Rifle ammo. I can not say the same of the Ruger Single-Sixs I have had except the Hunter Model that I still own....

Is that cylinder by chance numbered to the gun?

Bob
 
SuperMan said:
NO NO NO!!!! Think about future investment and look how much more 48s with the extra cylinder bring. Just put the LR cylinder away and one day you will either need it or it will really enhance the resale of the gun.

The typical 651 J-frame .22 Magnum goes for $600+-...I had one with the extra cylinder that brought $905.00. I have seen several more bring that since then.

As to the guns not shooting well with Long Rifles, you need to do some shooting to determine that. All of my 48s have shot just fine with Long Rifle ammo. I can not say the same of the Ruger Single-Sixs I have had except the Hunter Model that I still own....

Is that cylinder by chance numbered to the gun?

Bob
Click to expand...

In reverse order, no, I don't remember that there was any numbering at all on the cylinder.

I already had begun to come around to this idea before you hit me with the clue stick! I think you're absolutely right. I should try & find a 22WMR cylinder & keep the 22LR cylinder. Thanks for pointing this out! :)

cmr
 
One other thing you could do if you can not find a 48 cylinder....17 cylinders are much more common and could always have one of these rechambered if necessary....Bob
 
After reading the replies here I am a little confused. The bore diameter, the distance between the grooves in the barrel is the same for .22lr and .22 mag, .223, the bullet diameter is also about the same .220, what is different is the chamber size in the cylinder as the .22 mag is a modern bullet that sits inside the case and is longer. The .22lr is a heeled bullet that sits over the case rim rather than inside the case. When you fire a .22lr in a mag cylinder the case splits as a result of the .22 mag case being bigger.

If you have a .22lr cylinder on your 48 the .22lr should fire fine and be accurate as the barrel diameter / bore size of the barrel is the same as on a .22lr. I know this is the case with my single 6 convertable. Regardless you paid for a 48 LNIB and that is not what you got. The gunshop is a professional gunseller and should have inspected the gun before selling it. How much did you pay? I would ask for a refund of the price difference between a 48 and a 17 in the same condition, and look for a cylinder. But IF it shoots accurately, and it should I would just leave the .22lr cylinder on it as lr is much cheaper to shoot.

JMHO YMMV
 
Last edited:
arc2x4 said:
After reading the replies here I am a little confused. The bore diameter, the distance between the grooves in the barrel is the same for .22lr and .22 mag, .223, the bullet diameter is also about the same .220, what is different is the chamber size in the cylinder as the .22 mag is a modern bullet that sits inside the case and is longer. The .22lr is a heeled bullet that sits over the case rim rather than inside the case. When you fire a .22lr in a mag cylinder the case splits as a result of the .22 mag case being bigger.

If you have a .22lr cylinder on your 48 the .22lr should fire fine and be accurate as the barrel diameter / bore size of the barrel is the same as on a .22lr. I know this is the case with my single 6 convertable. Regardless you paid for a 48 LNIB and that is not what you got. The gunshop is a professional gunseller and should have inspected the gun before selling it. How much did you pay? I would ask for a refund of the price difference between a 48 and a 17 in the same condition, and look for a cylinder. But IF it shoots accurately, and it should I would just leave the .22lr cylinder on it as lr is much cheaper to shoot.

JMHO YMMV
Click to expand...

.22 lr bores and .22 magnum bores are a different size.
 
Another couple of things to consider. You'll have to find a cylinder that will match your condition of bluing on your gun and a cylinder with extractor usually goes for $100 to $150. I doubt is the factory has anymore cylinders in stock for that gun.
Adding the S&W cylinder is not a "drop in" situation. You'll have to have a gunsmith fit the rachet to time both cylinders properly. Thats going to be close to another $100.
I think Saxon Pig gave you good advice in the beginning of this post.
Most of these "project guns" are lost money.
 
Camster said:
.22 lr bores and .22 magnum bores are a different size.
Click to expand...

As said the .22 Magnums are .224. I believe the .22 Long Rifle and Jet are .2225. That is why those who shoot and reload .22 Jet either have to use one of the original .222 bullets from Remington or Hornady or some manufactures have made bullets for .22 Hornet in .223. Standard .224 bullets can case major pressure problems...

Bob
 
Model 48-4 Disappointment Solved

Sorry to drop out of sight. Things got busy for a couple of days while I was sorting things out.

Thanks for all of your valuable observations and suggestions. I'm very new at collecting S&W revolvers and gunsmithing and I've learned a lot this week.

After reviewing all of your observations & suggestions, talking with the dealer who sold me the pistol, talking with my local gunsmith and several calls to S&W and various parts houses, here's what I determined. First, as someone said earlier, there are no new cylinders for this model pistol to be had. I followed up the suggested lead on a used cylinder. The cylinder was available and might well have worked, but as another post observed, installing a cylinder is not a drop-in installation. What I finally decided, and the dealer agreed to pay for, was to keep the existing, installed 22LR cylinder and ream it out for 22WMR. My local GS is going to do this for a very reasonable fee.

While I will not end up with a "collectible" model 48 I will end up with a very "shootable" model 48. And, I bought it at a good enough price that I'm happy.

Now, my only disappointment is having to wait for the work to be done!

Thanks, again, for all your posts. I didn't realize this would garner so much interest!:D

CMR
 
Only you will know that the .22LR cylinder was reamed to .22MAG.
Go for it, shoot the heck out of it, and don't look back.
Good luck and good shooting.
J.Solo
 
K-22 Masterpiece 48-4 WMR

I have the S&W K-22 Masterpiece (48-4 WMR). One thing I'd be concerned with is the extra pressure of the WMR compared to the LR round.
On my Single Six (both cylinders) the WMR cylinder is quite a bit sturdier, Ruger didn't machine the flutes, leaving more mass to handle the higher pressures of the WMR round. I could be wrong, but a worked LR cylinder may not be the way to go. ???

DUCMAN1
 
If you bought a 48, shouldn't it be a magnum? seems that if it's LR, you may have a 17, just wondering. I believe the dealer should, and probably will, make it right.
 
DUCMAN1 said:
I have the S&W K-22 Masterpiece (48-4 WMR). One thing I'd be concerned with is the extra pressure of the WMR compared to the LR round.
On my Single Six (both cylinders) the WMR cylinder is quite a bit sturdier, Ruger didn't machine the flutes, leaving more mass to handle the higher pressures of the WMR round. I could be wrong, but a worked LR cylinder may not be the way to go. ???

DUCMAN1
Click to expand...

Hi, Ducman1!

I don't have it here in front of me, but my recollection is that there was plenty of metal around those chambers for safety and reaming only removed about 8 thousandths of an inch from the chamber walls -- diameter of .242" versus .226".

In any case, I took it out for the first time this past weekend and fired 50 rounds without mishap. :)

I'll take a close look when I get home this evening, but I doubt my gunsmith would have done it if he thought it was unsafe.

Thanks!

CMR
 
kudzu3 said:
If you bought a 48, shouldn't it be a magnum? seems that if it's LR, you may have a 17, just wondering. I believe the dealer should, and probably will, make it right.
Click to expand...

It is marked clearly on the yoke as a model 48-4. I've read that some of them were sold by S&W with an extra cylinder chambered for .22LR and I'm assuming ;) that someone changed out the cylinders at some time in the past and the .22WMR cylinder was lost.

Your post and the one earlier today by Ducman1 has gotten me thinking though. I also have a model 17 and, when I get home this evening, I'm going to get both of them out & compare the cylinders.

Cheers!

CMR
 
OK, after examining the cylinders of both my M17 & M48 I can state that, superficially at least, they are identical - the same length & width. The only apparent difference is the diameters of the chambers. Because the diameter of the .22WMR case is larger the wall thickness (at the thinnest point) is .010 thinner ( 0.142 vs. 0.152). But, there still is over an eighth inch of steel to contain the pressure.

Ducman1, you said you also had a Model 48. Is your cylinder the same?

Cheers!
CMR

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
cmr0323 said:
Yes, I believe I'll keep this pistol & look for a new cylinder. I bought it at a reasonably good price and wouldn't mind investing a little more in it.
Click to expand...

Very good decision. You will love the revolver.

If you do not mind, what was the final price on this?

Thanks,

Hoover
 
I bought this on an online auction site and it must have been a slow week because there were only three bids and I won with a final bid of $450.

cmr
 
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