Model 69 - Their explanation

I've heard it claimed that 80% of guns returned to the factory have nothing wrong with them. That's a whole lotta misunderstanding, and a lot of shipping fees covered to give someone a warm fuzzy.
 
Clearly, I am right

This relates to the gun AND the satisfaction of ownership.

To those who are so righteously chastising me... Fling that stone. Then re-read all this drama. I told them I was unhappy, I told them what I wanted, I voiced an opinion that was running rampant on these forums.

The "threat" I posed is the same threat each and every one of you pose - to talk about products and voice your opinion. ESPECIALLY because you join these forums.

As I see it - I got them to make a statement about their position on the "correctness" of the product.

Nobody else got that accomplished. Magazines and internet reviewers are too frightened to even address the question.

I feel I was very fair. I got their attention, I asked the pertinent questions and I got the answers to the questions that all Y'all were silently asking.

So... raspberries. Kick me off now if you want because if I need to, I will do this again.
 
Having read the entire thread, sorry, Harry, but you are/were way out of line. You looked at their design, decided it was flawed without any of their input, and proceed to tell them what YOU want and what YOU are going to do if you don't get what YOU want...

I counted 17 I/me/my in your letter. The way it sounds to me is that the world revolves around you, and you threaten to smear the entire company if you don't get your way.

As I see it, you are lucky you got a response at all, much less a congenial, even a kind response.

This is harsh, but be glad it wasn't me responding. Your lack of knowledge and understanding of the design, your high and mighty stance, and your threatening tone would not have been the only things I would have pointed out to you in the response...
 
The way I see it, S&W years ago had a "locking" crane and discontinued that feature. It sure looked better than what they're trying pass off now.
Hell even the Ruger sp101 has a better looking crane lock up.

S&W can do a better job lining up the "ball & notch".
 
CleanHarry said:
...Kick me off now if you want because if I need to, I will do this again.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard anyone suggest you be kicked off of anything. Your apparent inability to grasp the concept below is what has dismayed a few of us. One normally doesn't assume something is a fault without the necessary understanding to make that determination. That's what impressed me. :)

XTrooper said:
Personally, I do my best to not criticize things I don't have the expertise to knowledgeably fault. This episode is a good example of why.
Click to expand...

Well, anyway, it sounds like you are happy now. I have been reading a little about the Model 69 and what I have seen so far seems to be overwhelmingly favorable - notwithstanding cosmetic considerations that some of us older shooters find um... "unattractive." :D

The reason for the 69 seems to be to offer a trimmer revolver than the N-frame Mountain Gun, since weight is similar and the 329PD is lighter weight than either of those two models. I've always found the Mountain Gun a little hard to shoot well, probably because of the tapered barrel, so I wonder if the 69 might be a small improvement in that area. Probably not, but I would still like to give one a try. :)
 
CleanHarry said:
As I see it - I got them to make a statement

Nobody else got that accomplished.

I got their attention, I asked the pertinent questions and I got the answers to the questions that all Y'all were silently asking.

...if I need to, I will do this again.
Click to expand...


No need to appoint yourself as spokesman for the group. :rolleyes:
In my experience, self-appointed spokesmen are the worst ones.

If I want you to speak for me, I'll let you know. ;) :cool:
 
I hesitated before writing this but I have read and reread the to and from messages and they look to be written by the same individual based on style, usage and context. The response is totally different in style from any I have seen. In the several I have gotten to various exchanges with S&W customer service NEVER have they 1. Used the first person "I" 2. admitted any responsibility or obligation.
My personal belief is that this is BS.
Chip King
 
Is it just me or does the response back from S&W sort of read a little bit rude and irrate? I don't know. Being I'm from the south we were taught that the customer is to be treated politely and with respect. It's nice they got back to you but that part about "...I hope you do post this letter on the gun forums to help clear up the perceived issue...", and all the "Yes, blah blah blah. Yes, blah blah blah", sort of sounds like they are daring you to try and stump them.

I might agree with chipking's comment above. I'd expect a company like them to take responses seriously. Also I always heard they usually take a while to get back when responding to email's. I've only dealt with S&W over the phone lines and the wait is pretty long.
 
This is the first ball and detent design I've seen where the ball is not supposed to just snap into the center of the detent. I would add that my M327 M&P R8 has a ball detent lock up and while it is a different design it is still the same idea and it locks in the center. So I can see what all the fuss has been about. Personally I feel S&W could have done a better design but probably went the same old route of cheap and easy for production that allows a certain amout off error while still managing most of the function. Is this complaining? Or is this just the status quo of things? I guess that is for a mod to decide.
 
I'll bet that if the ball seated perfectly in the notch, there would be a slew of complaints about the cylinder being too hard to open and that it was a flawed design. With the suggested fix that the ball be offset from the notch so that it engaged just enough to do the job, but not so much that it required extra force to open the cylinder.
:rolleyes:
 
Hittman: Now you're out of line. Harry was telling his story about his communications with S&W. How can he tell a story and explain what he did without using the word "I"? He wasn't giving a speech about the price of tea in China -- he was telling his story.
 
I dunno. This just seems like something the Performance Center has been doing right and getting right for some time now.
 
chipking said:
I hesitated before writing this but I have read and reread the to and from messages and they look to be written by the same individual based on style, usage and context. The response is totally different in style from any I have seen. In the several I have gotten to various exchanges with S&W customer service NEVER have they 1. Used the first person "I" 2. admitted any responsibility or obligation.
My personal belief is that this is BS.
Chip King
Click to expand...

A very interesting take and well stated. That thought was nagging at me but I couldn't have said it better. But what would be the motive?
 
I assure you this is not made up... I just used the copy function - no re-typing or nuthin'.

Or maybeeeeee...

I am an agent working undercover for Smith and Wesson and was hired to play the antagonist so that they could explain the company's position on the janky-looking lock-up... Hmmmmm?

Anyway the thing feels and shoots good and I am keeping it. I am going to shoot the heck out of it (factory 44 specials) to see if that little tip will break off... Maybe.
 
I have a Security six with a slab sided aftermarket barrel and a detent similar to the S&W one. It goes all the way into place and does NOT keep the cylinder closed as much as I would like. A little tension would be nice. On this setup, the V notch moves and the ball (rounded pin) is fixed. If I could turn the V notch over it would add some tension.

Yes it should be pushing the crane closed with a little tension all the time.

Only my opinion.

David
 
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