Model 69 - Their explanation

[CleanHarry]

5 shots at 15 yards

Bad guy is getting safer...

 

[CleanHarry]

25 yards

All of these are hand held... Bad guy has a chance... All fired from the back of a running Mongolian Plains Horse... Bareback.

 

[jonny13sb]

Looks like it shoots ok, at age 56 I gauge my accuracy with handguns very simply; Hit him or missed him. If I really need to print impressive groups I'll need a rest, and something firm to lay my gun on while I shoot.

 

[Jim NNN]

Clean Harry
I am glad the Model 69 is shooting up to your expectations. Whew! Did you have previous contact with SW before your email quoted above? I think it was pretty strongly worded for a first contact

You bring up some good points. In all fairness to the OP, however, when I sent my Sigma in a couple of years ago for a failure experienced during a training session, S&W accused me of disassembling a part of the gun that I never disassembled - the slide. They sent a terse note back with the repaired gun that said "When you cleaned your gun, you forgot to reinstall the striker bushing."

No I didn't. I never disassembled the slide because the owner's manual says not to. And disassembling the slide is the only way you can remove the striker bushing. THEY forgot to put the striker bushing in when building the gun.

Oh well... they did fix the weapon and charged me nothing. Not even shipping. And if they are a little terse, well, hey...I just remind myself that they're from Massachusetts!

Glad everything is as it should be for the OP. S&W has been a good company for me so far.

 

[Paul105]

On a more positive note, I was out this afternoon and shot one of my M69s -- fifty five rounds of 240gr Laser Cast over 6.5gr HP38 for a chronoed 880 fps (seated/taper crimped the front drive band to .44 special OAL). It was spitting grapel (frozen styrafoam BBs) and blowing pretty good so I just shot from inside the pistol target house.

Pretty neat setup for an annual fee of $60. The house has a wood stove for winter use, and we can comfortably use it all winter long. There are two target racks with various configured steel targets), a full size popper, half size popper all at 30 yards. Further out (maybe 40 yds) are two mini poppers (about 18" high and 3" wide). More ¾ and full size poppers at various ranges down range. And finally, ½ size and full size poppers at 77 yds. For variety, we periodically move the targets around. This is an unsupervised range and today I was the only one there.

Anyway, I have two M69s, bought the 1st one in late January and liked it so much added a backup in early March. To date, I have shot 830 rnds thru the first and 620 in the second. Everything from 240gr at 750 fps to 325gr at 1,180fps (all actual chrono results).

Here are the targets I've shot testing loads, identifying point of impact and trying to determine accuracy potential.

Gun number one with open sights right after I bought it. The 9.4gr was Longshot and the 10.6 was HS6 and the 5.4gr was HP38 all under 240gr Laser Cast SWCs and seated/crimped over front drive band (.44 spcl OAL).
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It was windy, and light was fading fast, but wanted an idea of accy/POI
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Later mounted a 4x Leupold on Gun #1 for further accuracy testing.
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..
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Wanted to check point of impact, so I bottomed out the rear sight on gun #2 and shot the following 2 shot groups at 25 yds with the factory open sights. Shot from a rest, with butt left free to recoil without any resistance (nothing under butt of gun). The black circles are to separate close or overlapping two shot groups.
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I really like this gun – the L Frame just works for me. I have had no problems with either gun except for the sight regulation issue.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but thought some might be interested in the capabilities of the M69 rather than just the perceived negative stuff.

FWIW,

Paul

 

[PALADIN85020]

I just read this thread from start to finish.

Now I wish I had done something else -

The phrase "Much ado about nothing" would seem to apply. I have had exactly two contacts with S&W customer service, and in both cases I was highly satisfied. No mechanical thing is 100% perfect, and likewise, there are no 100% perfect humans. Treat people the way you would like to be treated, and chances are, you will be rewarded with similar treatment.

John

 

[Czbilly]

I actually passed on a 69 last week because I had seen the pic of the ball seemingly out of place. The one I saw wasn't nearly as far off but I had perceived this was a problem. After reading this I certainly hope it is still there tomorrow. I have been longing for a set up like this for years and am quite surprised that Smith made something exactly like I had wanted.
I guess sometimes it pays to wait.

 

[M29since14]

Thanks for the info, Paul. Good post as usual. Those two guns look to be pretty fair shooters. I'm not sure what you meant about the sight regulation issue, which I gather is a problem for you. I'll go back and read again. An old hand like you knows no .44 is going to be close with all those different loads. I presume you meant the sights were not regulated for the load you preferred to use... ?

So, are you now forsaking your 329PDs for Model 69s?

 

[GaryS]

This forum could really use a "Don't Like" button. I've never found taking a confrontational attitude as a first line tactic productive. That's from both the consumer and service provider perspectives.

To those who don't like my strong wording...

"Golly, is this right?"

"Yes."

"Oh, gee, shucks... Ok."

Nah...

I got their attention, asked the questions and got an answer.

For all of us.

 

[peyton]

Thanks for the range reports. my son in law has been looking for a 44 mag but the 29/629 grip was to large. I will drag him to my LGS when I get home on R&R.

 

[CleanHarry]

Have you ever tried?

This forum could really use a "Don't Like" button. I've never found taking a confrontational attitude as a first line tactic productive. That's from both the consumer and service provider perspectives.

I never had either... Learned it from my wife. Works awesome!

I challenge everyone who hates me to post some pictures of some holes in paper. Use your favorite 44...

Those who found this helpful in deciding they WILL buy an M69... Are not required to thank me. You're welcome, Smith & Wesson!

 

[Smith61]

I'm so bummed out after reading this entire thread. I know I'm responsible for my own actions...but I missed the end of an auction for a Model 69 because of the mesmorizing pull of this thread....Probably never see one again with a layaway option......

 

[BruMatt]

I put another 100 rounds thru my 69 this weekend and I was very happy again with the feel and function of the gun. I'm over 60 and have been shooting S&W revolvers for 45 years. I certainly appreciate the beauty and craftsmanship that went into the old guns. But I also see the benefits that modern metals and manufacturing techniques bring to the current offering of guns. I have never had a problem with the internal lock or MIM parts. They are much more uniform and require less fitting to replace. The offset ball detent seems to hold the crane tighter. Some of this could be considered improvements.
All of us 696 lovers have asked for this gun for years. I hope it is successful enough to warrant additional calibers and barrel lengths.

 

[Paul105]

Thanks for the info, Paul. Good post as usual. Those two guns look to be pretty fair shooters. I'm not sure what you meant about the sight regulation issue, which I gather is a problem for you. I'll go back and read again. An old hand like you knows no .44 is going to be close with all those different loads. I presume you meant the sights were not regulated for the load you preferred to use... ?

So, are you now forsaking your 329PDs for Model 69s?

Sight regulation issue – With the rear sight completely bottomed out, both M69s shoot 2 to 3 inches high at 25 yds with factory spec .44 Mag ammo (240s at 1,200 to 1,300 fps). With the wide assortment of bullet weights/velocities avail in the .44 mag, it is my opinion that the front sight blade should be higher, which would allow a more useful range of elevation adjustments. Wish S&W would use DX front sight base on all their revolvers -- would be easy to change height, profile, and type of front blade.

Different shooters will shoot the same gun/load to different POIs and sometimes quite a large difference. My son shoots my .500 JRH (440s at 1,040 fps) close to 5" lower than I do at 25 yds and 2" lower with the m69 (240s at 880 fps).

I also know that different loads/bullet weights will not shoot to the same point of impact in most handguns. I ran the point of impact tests to answer the question "is there enough elevation adjustment to zero 260gr and 300gr loads at 25 yds?" from a poster on another forum.

No, I haven't replaced the 329 with the M69. I did carry the M69 while walking the dogs this morning. It is narrower than the 329 and sits deeper in the Simply Rugged pancake. The m69 is very comfortable for belt/hip carry in the SR pancake, but I did notice the extra weight.

FWIW,

Paul

 

[M29since14]

I agree. With the rear sight bottomed out you are in trouble. I have had similar experiences with a lot of S&W 44 Magnums over the years - especially those with 8-3/8" barrels. Thanks for the additional info. Agree with you 100% about the "DX" style front. Should be standard on every revolver made.

 

[Badquaker]

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.....

I almost never give likes to posts, but this thread had some winners.

 

[A10]

Dang it......outta popcorn.....

 

[jaymoore]

...I challenge everyone who hates me to post some pictures of some holes in paper. Use your favorite 44....

No hate here. Although the haters sure are a lively bunch.

But here's a few Model 69 photos during it's first range session, using factory ammo at 25 yards.

Choices at this range are either 25 or 50yds. Didn't feel froggy enough to go for the further distance at a first go with a new revolver:

White box W-W. 240gr .44 Magnums:

Last three rounds out of an old box of Hornady 240gr XTPs. (Note chronograph result on box bottom: 1462 fps. average! Granted it was from an 8" Colt.):

Rather lower POI than with the other ammo, but much less recoil, too! For general carry use with .44 Mag. factory ammo, the Short Barrel CCI load has a lot going for it. Just need to make sure the 69 hits where it looks beforehand.

(I forget what made the patched up mess on this target beforehand. Some targets get reused for months...)

 

[M29since14]

...(I forget what made the patched up mess on this target beforehand. Some targets get reused for months...)

Just kidding! Thanks for your pictures. You guys are going to convince me yet that I need one of those crooked, off-center things - and just when I had convinced myself I didn't need any more pistols.

I'll bet that Model 69 was pretty lively with those old Hornady loads. Those were moving right along, weren't they?

 

[CleanHarry]

What?

Just kidding! Thanks for your pictures. You guys are going to convince me yet that I need one of those crooked, off-center things - and just when I had convinced myself I didn't need any more pistols.

I'll bet that Model 69 was pretty lively with those old Hornady loads. Those were moving right along, weren't they?

Don't need anymore pistols... What language is that?