Modern 357 magnum rounds in a 1992 mod 19-6

[almarz]

Hi guys! Just bought a mod 19-6 from 1992. Read somewhere that using modern powerful rounds could crack the forcing cone. What brand /type of 357 rounds are safe in this gun. Hope this distinguished forum can help.
Terje A Gogstad
Norway

 

[CH4]

Although many forcing comes have cracked over the decades, it's not very common. Use bullets of 135 grains or heavier, of any vintage, and you'll be fine. This pertains to any of the older K frames, not just your 19-6. Also, if you primarily use standard 38s or 38 +Ps, you'll be fine.

 

[Chrisj357]

About the M-19

Way back when, I bought a '70's version of a 19-3. I know this 1980 and above. But what is important about this gun I believe applies to all versions.

That M-19 was my first gun of any kind. Not knowing any better I shot whatever I could get my hands on. A local LEO told me to use 110grn HP for personal protection since they wouldn't over penetrate.

I shot lots of them. Some hot hand loads with 148gn bullets as well, and several different factory loads. After hundreds of rounds I had to have S&W cut a new forcing cone. However, the forcing cone didn't look that bad to me but it went back to them for other reasons and they noticed the bad forcing cone.

So, here's my take from my experience. The M-19 was meant for carry. Most carry weapons like for Police, military or security don't get fired a whole lot. So that's what I believe they were built for and if you shoot 50 rounds per year for "qual" (like we did in the military) then it really doesn't matter what you shoot.

Since I like to shoot more than that and I love the full .357 rounds. I bought a M-686. That gun eats anything and as much as I want.

I now reserve my like new old M-19 for indoor home defense and keep +P personal defense rounds in it. I do shoot it occasionally just to have a good time and a good reason to clean it but I only shoot 38+P with the M-19.

Hope that helps.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

It was the hot 125-grain JHP loads that were found to be the cause of cracked forcing cones. I don't know how common the problem really was but I would think it would take a lot of shooting to do that. It seemed to be a problem for mid-size S&W and Rugers...didn't hear it happening to other makes...or at least not as often...but S&W and Ruger sold more mid-size .357 revolvers than anyone else so it seems logical if there was an issue that those guns would show it.

A great defense round was the old Winchester and Federal "Treasury Load"...a .38 Special 110 grain +P+. Winchester still loads it as their 110 grain .357 rather than a .38 Special...if you can find it. The FBI swore by their 158-grain lead SWCHP...the Treasury had their preferences...but each had their own specific criteria to meet their needs.

 

[Rpg]

I suspect that the cracked forcing cone problems were much less frequent than it appears in internet boards. I know I've never seen one in the wild.

The problem seems to be related to 125 gr ammo.

 

[Hair Trigger]

I suspect that the cracked forcing cone problems were much less frequent than it appears in internet boards. I know I've never seen one in the wild.

The problem seems to be related to 125 gr ammo.

My first two S&W's were a M66 and a M19-2 back in the late 1970's, both of which had a healthy diet of 125 JHP's, along with an even healthier diet of 140 gr wadcutters for PPC matches. Never any issues.

 

[chief38]

Stick with a few 158 grain Magnums on occasion and you should be fine.

 

[stansdds]

It was full power 110 and 125 grain Magnum loads that caused the most forcing cone erosion and cracked forcing cones in the K-frame 357's. Full power ammo using 145 grain or heavier bullets did not exhibit this behavior. Those full power 110 and 125 grain loads used a very heavy charge of very slow burning colloidal ball powder, H-110/W-296 being the reloader's equivalent powder. That heavy load of powder pushing the very light bullet at extremely high velocity had a shock and blow torch effect on forcing cones.

Best advice for the older K-frame 357's (current production Model 19 and 66 use a redesigned barrel that should be more durable) is to either avoid full power 110 and 125 grain Magnum ammo or shoot it very little. I know my own Model 19-3, although bought used and external finish challenged, had pristine internal surfaces including the barrel, but after a few hundred 110 and 125 grain full power rounds there was visible erosion at the edge of the forcing cone.

This advice does not apply to the more modern reduced velocity lightweight bullet loads nor does it apply to any 38 Special or 38 Special +P load. The reduced power 357 loads do not use heavy charges of colloidal ball powder and neither does any 38 Special/+P load.

 

[Ranger514]

Qualifying at our range back in the early 90s, the 19 fired by the officer on my left experienced a cracked forcing cone that sprayed lead on me. His 19 was an older agency issue, probably from the 70s, when we transitioned from standard model 10s. We qualified with 125 grain JHP magnums. I qualified and carried my personally owned snubby 66 built in the late 80s. It never had issues with that load, but Hogue rubber grips were necessary to complete the 60-round quals that were run quarterly. While I've never heard of the SS 66 having cracked cone issues with that load, nowadays I load my snubby with .38 Special +P JHP as a precaution.

 

[Alk8944]

almarz,

The original intent of the Model 19 as proposed by Phillip Jordan of the U.S. Border Patrol to the then President of S&W was for a K-Frame revolver similar to the Model 15 Combat Masterpiece that would be used principally with .38 Special ammunition but that would be sufficiently strong for limited use of .357 Magnum ammunition for law enforcement officers.

Unfortunately too many of the purchasers of the Model 19 revolvers assumed that because it was chambered for .357 Magnum they could use that cartridge as much as they wanted to! The predictable outcome of this has been failures of various types with this model. The greatest problem has been with hand-loaders that often, desiring maximum performance, have used light-for-caliber bullets with powder loads that frequently exceed specified maximum pressures for the .357 Magnum cartridges.

"Modern" ammunition is not the problem. If you adhere to the original intent of the designers of the Model 19 and use principally .38 Special ammunition of any type, and minimize the use of .357 Magnum ammunition you shouldn't have any problems.

 

[Pisgah]

Rules for Gun Forum Usage

Rule #1 -- Half of what you read is garbage.
Rule #2 -- The rest is highly suspect.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

The cracked forcing cones resulting in only using "Hot 125 gr bullets/bullets less than 135 grs" is a myth. If not show me documented proof.........They cracked with all manner of bullet weights. Mine cracked from using 150 gr cast bullets in 1986. I bought another 4 in bbl, Built a set of frame blocks and changed it out myself. Mine is P&R and the hardest part of the change was getting the bbl pin out....My bbl/forcing cone was not leaded up when this happened.

 

[The Mighty S&W]

I personally believe that the issue was way overstated in terms of frequency and likely a relatively high round count of hot cartridges contributed to most. I have a 66-3 and the only thing I load in the thing are .357 Magnum factory cartridges. I try to stick to mostly 158 grain loads, but have fired a small number of 125's without issue. I really don't see the model 19 or 66 (at least the 2.5 inch versions like mine) as being high volume shooters. They are defensive carry guns, and if you're running a box or two of cartridges through them a couple times a year, they are likely fine. If you're outpacing the 9mm shooters with the number of rounds you fire monthly, I would run .38's or move to an L frame.

I do my bulk shooting with other guns.

 

[mikeruns]

maybe moderate the magnum ammo with .38 special ammo and enjoy your combat magnum.

 

[balin]

My understanding is that modern handgun SAAMI pressures are less then what they were decades ago. So today's rounds will not cause any more damage then years ago and probably less. Just depends on how many rounds are fired.

 

[e3mrk]

Since I didn't know any better I was shooting 158grain Hornady XTP's 357 Magnum in My Model 19-3 until I was told the Revolver wasn't made to do so all the time and I should use 38 specials instead, Magnums are ok now and then but not for a steady diet.

 

[balin]

Over the decades the pressures of ammo has actually gone down in pressure. SAAMI pressures aren't what they used to be.

 

[Geeorge]

Had a pinned and recessed model 19 that we shot 1000's of times with magnum loads and never had any problems

 

[stansdds]

We should also keep in mind that S&W changed the size of the flat on the barrel shank, making it even thinner with the move of the gas ring from the yoke to the cylinder. That was the Model 19-4. When S&W went back to putting the gas ring on the yoke, they continued to use the thinner style barrel. I suspect that there is a greater chance of cracking the forcing cone with the Model 19-4 through 19-8. The 19-9 uses a completely different barrel that has no thin, flat spot.

 

[dogdoc]

The vast majority do not crack. My 1983 66 has shot many many magnums since I purchased it new in 83 or 84. I continue to try to get it to crack but no luck so far.