mg357
Absent Comrade
I love the m1 carbine!
Musings on the M1 carbine
- Thread starter Faulkner
- Start date
Old TexMex
Member
I was handed one in 1973, with two 30rd "banana cleeps" taped side by side, it was a GM, and I have no idea where it wound up.
The Cleveland, Ohio Pd members liked the carbine, as many officers carried them during the Hough riots in the mid 60's. Several of them were marked M2 also.
I was walking the Medina, Ohio Gun Show one time and stopped at a table to look at a carbine. I picked it up and saw that the receiver was marked M2 and commented on it. The dealer said it was okay, because it had belonged to a Cleveland PO, and he had removed the full auto parts. I wiped off my fingerprints and laid it back down and quickly walked away looking over my shoulder while doing so.
I have also seen a couple where someone had removed the 2 and restamped the receiver with a 1. Those dealers said that was completely legal and since the 2 had been removed and replaced with a 1 it was no longer a machine gun. Yeah right....
I was walking the Medina, Ohio Gun Show one time and stopped at a table to look at a carbine. I picked it up and saw that the receiver was marked M2 and commented on it. The dealer said it was okay, because it had belonged to a Cleveland PO, and he had removed the full auto parts. I wiped off my fingerprints and laid it back down and quickly walked away looking over my shoulder while doing so.
I have also seen a couple where someone had removed the 2 and restamped the receiver with a 1. Those dealers said that was completely legal and since the 2 had been removed and replaced with a 1 it was no longer a machine gun. Yeah right....
sgt.207
Member
The M-1 carbine was the first rifle i shot at 6 years old in 1971 with my father, and was so much fun to shoot it started my interest in firearms......
carpriver
US Veteran
I own 2 M1 carbines, I think they are a very solid rifle and are as accurate as just about any other firearm. I was issued an M2 carbine while in the Air Force as a Air Policeman. It took a while to get it sighted in for me. Once it was sighted in it was accurate to 150 yds. At 100yds I had 4 inch groups with 5 shots or course at 150 the groups opened up. This was in 1966/67. I would have preferred an M1 or M2 in Vietnam as the M16 I was issued jammed, failed to fire and problems with the mag release. traded it for a shotgun. My granddaughters like shooting my carbines because of the lack of recoil.
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
It's light, it's compact, it can hold 30 rounds, and it has light recoil. Check. But for a rifle it is under-powered.
Where are folks getting this 2200 FPS 30 Carbine ammo? The military stuff I have clocked runs 1900. From my Ruger revolver (gone now) it came in at 1300 FPS. Not impressive.
I have had several Carbines and still have one dated 4/44 (maybe went ashore at Omaha Beach?). I have been playing with some loads for it. Most recent was an 86 grain JHP at a measured 2,300 FPS.
I don't doubt the 30C will stop a man, but there are better calibers. Would not be my first choice, but it would do.
And why is everyone shooting buffalo in a combat zone?
Where are folks getting this 2200 FPS 30 Carbine ammo? The military stuff I have clocked runs 1900. From my Ruger revolver (gone now) it came in at 1300 FPS. Not impressive.
I have had several Carbines and still have one dated 4/44 (maybe went ashore at Omaha Beach?). I have been playing with some loads for it. Most recent was an 86 grain JHP at a measured 2,300 FPS.
I don't doubt the 30C will stop a man, but there are better calibers. Would not be my first choice, but it would do.
And why is everyone shooting buffalo in a combat zone?
I carried an M1 Carbine as a young police officer in the late 60's and always felt comfortable with it. In those days, and point of fact , today I feel very well armed with my 357 Combat Magnum , M1 Carbine and my Remington 870. All my best, Joe.
Doc Nonverbal
Member
My father bought a Universal M1 Carbine during the '67 Detroit race riots. It was the first long gun I ever fired (I had been shooting handguns for several months at that point). I was about 14 or 15 years old.
We were on the 25 yard handgun range and I was holding that carbine to my shoulder like grim death, as I was expecting horrendous recoil. When it fired, I was shocked by the lack of recoil...
My father was spotting with binoculars and immediately started laughing, stating that I had completely missed the target. I was pretty sure that I didn't, so we waited until the line was clear and we walked down.
The bullet hole was nestled perfectly at the bottom intersection of the "X", but not touching the lines of the X, so it was hard to see. I think I still have that target tucked away someplace. 8^ )
One of my favorite memories of the M1 carbine was at that same range with my father. A police officer was shooting at a silhouette target (again at 25 yards) and wasn't doing a very good job of it. My father waited until the fellow left, loaded up a 30 round magazine and proceeded to put every round into the face of the target in rapid fire. As a kid, I thought that was about the coolest thing I had ever seen.
My father passed in '95, but I still have that carbine. It now is mounted in a Choate camo pistol grip stock. I had my gunsmith remove the rear sight and put on a short length of Weaver rail, to which I have an Ultradot red dot scope mounted. I have an inexpensive LED flashlight mounted under the barrel with a pressure switch on the left fore-end. On the right side of the stock a spare 30 round magazine is strapped; another is strapped to the right fore-end. Loaded with 110gr Winchester hollow-points, it's quite accurate, a whole bunch of fun to shoot, and what I consider to be a great little home defense weapon.
We were on the 25 yard handgun range and I was holding that carbine to my shoulder like grim death, as I was expecting horrendous recoil. When it fired, I was shocked by the lack of recoil...
My father was spotting with binoculars and immediately started laughing, stating that I had completely missed the target. I was pretty sure that I didn't, so we waited until the line was clear and we walked down.
The bullet hole was nestled perfectly at the bottom intersection of the "X", but not touching the lines of the X, so it was hard to see. I think I still have that target tucked away someplace. 8^ )
One of my favorite memories of the M1 carbine was at that same range with my father. A police officer was shooting at a silhouette target (again at 25 yards) and wasn't doing a very good job of it. My father waited until the fellow left, loaded up a 30 round magazine and proceeded to put every round into the face of the target in rapid fire. As a kid, I thought that was about the coolest thing I had ever seen.
My father passed in '95, but I still have that carbine. It now is mounted in a Choate camo pistol grip stock. I had my gunsmith remove the rear sight and put on a short length of Weaver rail, to which I have an Ultradot red dot scope mounted. I have an inexpensive LED flashlight mounted under the barrel with a pressure switch on the left fore-end. On the right side of the stock a spare 30 round magazine is strapped; another is strapped to the right fore-end. Loaded with 110gr Winchester hollow-points, it's quite accurate, a whole bunch of fun to shoot, and what I consider to be a great little home defense weapon.
charlie sherrill
Member
It's one of my favorite rifles. I have taken several deer with one. I carried one for a patrol rifle for several years. I currently own a Winchester, Inland, Quality,Rockola, and two Saginaws, one of which I'd trade for another carbine I didn't have.
BLACKHAWKNJ
Member
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It seems to me the stories of the M-1 Carbine's round failing to penetrate Chinese uniforms in Korea originated with groggy and exhausted and sleep deprived GIs and Marines trying to repel a Chinese assault at 0100 in 20 degree weather.
Fishinfool
Member
OK, here is a "musing" story that will make you cry. A buddy of mine worked for the Federal Bureau of Prisons, and passed this on to me.
The M1 Carbine was the official issue weapon, as were S&W 38spl revolvers. Every federal prison armory was stocked with both. In the early 1990's, the BOP switched to the 3 shot burst M-16 and a 9mm semi handgun.
Rather then offer the old guns to officers, or donate them to local LEO, all the M1 carbines and revolvers were collected, and cut up with cutting torches. Thousands of each. Prisons that had towers had mostly pre-64 Winchester model 70's in 30-06 with Weaver scopes. These to were destroyed. The Govt. PAID to have all 38spl / 30 carbine, and any other unauthorized ammo hauled away as hazardous waste.
Larry
The M1 Carbine was the official issue weapon, as were S&W 38spl revolvers. Every federal prison armory was stocked with both. In the early 1990's, the BOP switched to the 3 shot burst M-16 and a 9mm semi handgun.
Rather then offer the old guns to officers, or donate them to local LEO, all the M1 carbines and revolvers were collected, and cut up with cutting torches. Thousands of each. Prisons that had towers had mostly pre-64 Winchester model 70's in 30-06 with Weaver scopes. These to were destroyed. The Govt. PAID to have all 38spl / 30 carbine, and any other unauthorized ammo hauled away as hazardous waste.
Larry
Dad was in Korea, and didn't talk about it much. He did share that he carried an M2, and it was his favorite weapon. He always wanted one for the house but never got one. I gave him a Mini 14 and he liked it just fine, though it is heavier than the little Carbine. The Mini 14 is in my safe now.....wish Dad was here to share it with......
ogilvyspecial
Member
Interesting, thanks for sharing the "American" perspective.
I don't know if I should have clarified this or not, the CIDG
(Civilian Irregular Defense Group) and Mike Force Strikers
were all Asian, so, even the tallest trooper would
probably be average height for an American.
From that picture of those soldiers crossing the ditch that guy with the BAR
was probably five foot nothing. I can still see him, in that photo, with
that BAR resting on his shoulder to keep it out of the water. It looked
like one of those huge, display rifles that you sometimes see on
the walls of a gun shop, when compared to that little guy.
One thing is for sure, he had no problem hunkering
down behind that BAR when it was on its bipod.
One other thing I didn't mention in my previous posts.
When Pat was talking about the M1/M2 Carbine he
would usually say, "That little thing killed like hell."
NFrameFred
Member
I'm surprised no one has mentioned a seminal book that used to just about be required reading for 'gun cranks' a few years ago, "Shots Fired In Anger" by Lt. Col. John George.
It details his experiences fighting the Japanese in multiple island campaigns in WWII and he used everything from the Garand to bolt action sniper rifles and the little 30 carbine. In a hot combat zone I recall he was fond of carrying a cut down five round mag in the carbine for convenience sake, carrying spare extended mags of 15 rounds (I seem to remember he thought the 30 rounders unwieldy and unreliable) and used it to deadly effect.
Lt. Col. George went on to be a target shooter of renown and a high profile figure in the NRA for many years.
One passage comes to mind where his squad was being pursued down an incline in the jungle by a numerically superior force of Japanese and he would stop and provide covering fire for his men so they could escape. He talks about being able to almost surgically place shots with the light recoiling carbine, which he stated also would penetrate the Japanese helmets with ease.
The old 'rule of thumb' we were often quoted when I first became interested in martial rifles was that the 30 carbine had the ballistics at 100 yards that a .357 revolver had at the muzzle - not too shabby. The 110 grain hardball pill with poor shot placement is likely the reason some have no confidence in the round. Anyone who values a Garand and a 1911 in their battery should appreciate having the little carbine, as well. It has it's place, especially among more diminutive shooters . . . but is still an effective carbine at practical ranges.
It details his experiences fighting the Japanese in multiple island campaigns in WWII and he used everything from the Garand to bolt action sniper rifles and the little 30 carbine. In a hot combat zone I recall he was fond of carrying a cut down five round mag in the carbine for convenience sake, carrying spare extended mags of 15 rounds (I seem to remember he thought the 30 rounders unwieldy and unreliable) and used it to deadly effect.
Lt. Col. George went on to be a target shooter of renown and a high profile figure in the NRA for many years.
One passage comes to mind where his squad was being pursued down an incline in the jungle by a numerically superior force of Japanese and he would stop and provide covering fire for his men so they could escape. He talks about being able to almost surgically place shots with the light recoiling carbine, which he stated also would penetrate the Japanese helmets with ease.
The old 'rule of thumb' we were often quoted when I first became interested in martial rifles was that the 30 carbine had the ballistics at 100 yards that a .357 revolver had at the muzzle - not too shabby. The 110 grain hardball pill with poor shot placement is likely the reason some have no confidence in the round. Anyone who values a Garand and a 1911 in their battery should appreciate having the little carbine, as well. It has it's place, especially among more diminutive shooters . . . but is still an effective carbine at practical ranges.
I have an Inland that is older than I am, and it is great fun to shoot. I saw lots of them in VN as they were the perfect size for the Vietnamese. The 2013 Gun Digest has an article on how to do some accurizing to the rifle.
Cocked & Locked
Member
Carbine fan here....
While I have no experience in combat, I really like my little carbine. I do know there are a whole lot of Germans, Japanese, Italians, Koreans, Chinese, and Viet Namese who aren't around to debate the wimpiness of this weapon.
You bring back memories Charlie. Several years ago I got into collecting M1 Carbines and ended up with around twenty of them. Had one of each major manufacturer, some early, some late, a couple of the M1A1 folding stock paratroopers, and a few variations too. My buddy, who also was collecting them and got me started, and I began doing displays at the Ohio Gun Collectors Shows at the IX Center in Brookpark, Ohio. Our last year of displaying them, the Board of Directors wanted us to take the Display to the Las Vegas NRA Show. All expenses paid for us and our wives, and they were going to transport the display to and from the show with security. We declined and didn't go, and soon after, as I was getting burned out, I sold everything I had, including parts, tools, ammo, etc. I didn't even keep one of the rifles for myself, although I am now pining for another one, just to have.
I too carried an M2 Carbine in the Air Force while I was stationed at Clark Air Base, Philippines. When I was sent TDY to Bien Hoa Air Base, Viet Nam, I was issued the then new AR15, which had the three prong flash hider and green stock with the triangular handguards. I cleaned the gun every day before going on Guard Duty, and never had a problem with it when firing it, although I never had to shoot it in combat either. I was also an M-60 gunner. Sure loved that weapon.
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mkk41
US Veteran
I'm pretty sure that's how it was supposed to be done back then. Those carbines were effectively loaned , if they received them direct from the Govt. They either had to return them or prove them destroyed or otherwise account for them.
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