My epiphany on CCW guns

[sipowicz]

I have carried some sort of j-frame for the past twenty years. I have also read tons of articles on the latest wazoo tiny pocket rocket auto like the Kel Tec or Seecamp....and most recently, the amazing Shield. It finally hit me after shooting my friend's shield this week, why I resisted all this time. Yes, the revolver is simpler, but I do love large autos like my HP, P2000 or 1911. What I don't like about small autos is the scaled down features. I hate little thumb safeties, little slide releases, tiny mag releases, etc. I have a Beretta Jetfire that stops shooting after a couple of rounds because I accidentally flip up the thumb safety..it also has a mag release on the grip panel which also makes me nervous. I know the Shield is a better design but still....

 

[Jakpro]

You make good points.

However, if one is intent on making a change, one can make the change. All it takes is practice.

Years ago, I knew a Dallas constable who made the change from revolver to Sig P226. He was really frustrated that he could not be as accurate as he was with the revolver. In fact, he could not even qualify with the Sig. I offered to buy his Sig!!

Well, he worked with the range instructor and after much practice, he never looked back and carried the Sig.

The same goes for safeties, slide releases, and magazine catches. I am left handed and the magazine catch is always on my palm side. I don't use slide releases. I buy pistols without slide releases or safeties. You can now buy the Shield without a safety. It is not needed, anyway.

In summary, there is a work around, if you really want it!

 

[NCW Ray]

Can't speak about the other pistols you mention, but my Shield doesn't have a scaled down slide stop or mag release, they're the same size as my 40c & 40fs. Don't know about the thumb-safety lever since mine doesn't have one.

 

[Protected One]

I know what you mean Sip, but every time you replace the word "tiny" with the word "big" you're also adding weight to that gun. If that doesn't bother you then more power to you, but for me (as much as I love my High Power) the Shield is my new constant companion...and my back thanks me!

 

[Kanewpadle]

There are pro's and con's with any gun we choose to carry.

It's important to ask ourselves if the pro's outweigh the con's and how they will affect our decision.

 

[pharmer]

Git'ya a 6906, use the safety for decocking after loading a rd in the chamber. It'll carry 12+1 but I carry 11+1 because I trained with revolvers and it's exactly 2 cylinders. Same with the D/A, long trigger pull on the first shot, no safety lever to fool with. Best part, it carries like a fat Walther PPK. Several wholesalers have them at attractive price points. Joe

 

[gregintenn]

Ruger LCP.

No switches, levers, etc., except for the mag release and the trigger.

It's point and click; just like a J frame, but thinner.

 

[Lycan]

Most of the time, CC guns and range guns are two different beasts. We carry CC weapons because they meet the criteria we want for that purpose. That criteria doesn't always translate into the best range gun experience. It's important to remember what a tool is for. A screw driver seldom does the job of a hammer.

I have a Shield 9mm and I am lucky because I really enjoy shooting it at the range as well as carrying it day to day. I also enjoy shooting my 1911 and my double stack 9mm at the range, but they do not make for good CC guns (for me).

It's important to practice with your CC gun frequently, but that doesn't mean other guns (non CC) can't be more fun. In my case, the Shield is a gun that works well for both.

 

[feralmerril]

I recently bought a Sig Sauer 238. Got it cheap as it was a couple hundred off as a ACE hardware fathers day special. A little .380. I even bought a extra magazine and holster. Went and tried it out and it has the worst hardest trigger I ever pulled. Couldnt hit because of it. Its a cute little light bugger but I just may never pack or shoot it again.

 

[Tylos]

I have a Ruger LCP in .380.
I find it unpleasant to shoot.
"Snappy" recoil. 1 mag and I am
ready to shoot something else
(Never a problem).
Which is why I bought a Shield.
Shoots like a dream.

Ty

 

[federali]

CCW Oversight

Most discussions regarding CCW guns revolve around gun size and concealability. I have a different criteria: If you walked into a convenience store and were suddenly in the midst of a shooting incident against three armed adversaries, does the gun you're carrying have sufficient offensive capability and accuracy to engage one or more armed adversaries at distances that could stretch the length of the store and could you hit all three adversaries without a reload?

A retired NYC LEO paid with his life when caught in such a situation on Lower Broadway in Manhattan, at a Radio Shack. He was armed with a Model 36, no reload, engaged what he thought were two adversaries which turned out to be four adversaries, fired five times and missed and was then gunned down.

My minimum carry gun is a Kahr P9 but I most often carry a Glock 19 or a Browning HP, both of which have the offensive capability I feel I'll need should I have no choice but to shoot my way out of a bad situation.

 

[John R]

Nothing wrong with a revolver, I've carried a 442 for over 30 years and never felt that it was inadequate at all.
We got new M&P's in 40 at work so I started carrying a 40 Compact off duty, and put the 442 in the safe.
Looking to get a Shield now in 40.

The small revolvers are a great back up weapons, and also great for. off duty.

 

[pawncop]

The situation described by federali is the reason I carry a Glock model 32 with one extra magazine. The issue of multiple bad guys is growing.

I have also recently added a J frame model 36 to my on duty carry as a second gun, for the same reason.

Part of me wonders about paranoia, but when they are really out to get you, it ain't being paranoid.

 

[Lycan]

Most discussions regarding CCW guns revolve around gun size and concealability. I have a different criteria: If you walked into a convenience store and were suddenly in the midst of a shooting incident against three armed adversaries, does the gun you're carrying have sufficient offensive capability and accuracy to engage one or more armed adversaries at distances that could stretch the length of the store and could you hit all three adversaries without a reload?

A retired NYC LEO paid with his life when caught in such a situation on Lower Broadway in Manhattan, at a Radio Shack. He was armed with a Model 36, no reload, engaged what he thought were two adversaries which turned out to be four adversaries, fired five times and missed and was then gunned down.

My minimum carry gun is a Kahr P9 but I most often carry a Glock 19 or a Browning HP, both of which have the offensive capability I feel I'll need should I have no choice but to shoot my way out of a bad situation.

The situation described by federali is the reason I carry a Glock model 32 with one extra magazine. The issue of multiple bad guys is growing.

I have also recently added a J frame model 36 to my on duty carry as a second gun, for the same reason.

Part of me wonders about paranoia, but when they are really out to get you, it ain't being paranoid.

Though possible, most self defense situations rarely involve multiple persons or bullets. Although I respect your views and see why you have them, I think most people have to balance conceal ability with comfort, accuracy, and function. I don't want to be in a "fire-fight" situation with a CC handgun. I think in the first situation the retired LEOs decision to "engage" more than one suspect was a huge mistake. Now, the story didn't tell the exact circumstances (ie. was his life or the lives of others "directly" at threat of imminent death). But given a normal robbery situation it was doubtfully the case. It sounds like he inserted himself into a situation that he was not prepared for and was unnecessary. He jumped back into "police" mode instead of existing in "self defense" mode.

Anyway, if you can carry an arsenal, concealed and comfortably, I guess go for it. Personally, if my Shield with eight 9mm bullets (and maybe an extra mag in my pocket) can't handle the situation then it's time for flight instead of fight.

 

[STCM(SW)]

"Anyway, if you can carry an arsenal, concealed and comfortably, I guess go for it. Personally, if my Shield with eight 9mm bullets (and maybe an extra mag in my pocket) can't handle the situation then it's time for flight instead of fight."

Good advice.....

 

[Kanewpadle]

I agree with "flight instead of fight"

However, those of us that are older or not as mobile may not have to option to run away. Or run away quick enough. We may have to stand and fight.

It's not just about multiple assailants and their ability. It's about our ability or lack thereof.

 

[sac-gunslinger]

I know the Shield is a better design but still....

I would respectfully challenge that conclusion. In a lifetime of working on/designing/building metal parts I have concluded that miniaturizing many parts increases the stress those parts have to endure. A big clunky metal part designed in the days of sliderule engineering (i.e. designing in extra material "just to be sure") holds up better than parts designed to a minimum size, probably on a computer.

I do not mean any disrespect to the Shield, or to you Sipowicz, but my experience tells me larger parts and fewer parts makes for a more robust design. And I want something I may have to use to defend my life to be "robust."

 

[AZretired]

A retired NYC LEO paid with his life when caught in such a situation on Lower Broadway in Manhattan, at a Radio Shack. He was armed with a Model 36, no reload, engaged what he thought were two adversaries which turned out to be four adversaries, fired five times and missed and was then gunned down.

I agree with Lycan. This is not the fault of the M36 but rather operator error in judgement probably and apparently lack of range time.

 

[Smoke]

I like my Shield but for me it's a niche gun. It's the gun I carry when I'm sitting around the house in sweats or I'm in a situation where I can't carry something bigger (capacity not caliber).

outside of the home the gun I carry the most is a 6906. To me it's the best compromise between concealability and capacity.

I know a lot of people prefer a bigger caliber gun but my epiphany came when I realized that all the training I've ever received was based on the idea that if I fire at all regardless of caliber I'm going to be firing more than once. I'd rather have more rounds to do that with than less

 

[Protected One]

Most discussions regarding CCW guns revolve around gun size and concealability. I have a different criteria: If you walked into a convenience store and were suddenly in the midst of a shooting incident against three armed adversaries, does the gun you're carrying have sufficient offensive capability and accuracy to engage one or more armed adversaries at distances that could stretch the length of the store and could you hit all three adversaries without a reload?

A retired NYC LEO paid with his life when caught in such a situation on Lower Broadway in Manhattan, at a Radio Shack. He was armed with a Model 36, no reload, engaged what he thought were two adversaries which turned out to be four adversaries, fired five times and missed and was then gunned down.

My minimum carry gun is a Kahr P9 but I most often carry a Glock 19 or a Browning HP, both of which have the offensive capability I feel I'll need should I have no choice but to shoot my way out of a bad situation.

Since we don't know what the situation will be if we have to fire in self defense, how can we possibly say how many rounds will be needed? You carry a 13+1 High Power, which MAY have rendered a different outcome for that NYC officer(r), but what if the situation were a mall parking lot "knock-out mob" (as recently happened in Memphis)?....you might STILL be short on rounds! The point is, we don't know.

What we DO know is that if you carry on a regular basis that High Power (or FS 1911, etc) is likelly to feel like a boat anchor on your hip...and your back will eventually certify this.

Given all that, for the 4 round difference between the Shield and HP vs the weight and concealability difference....I'll take the Shield. Besides, if 9 rounds and a reload won't get me to safety, I'm most likelly screwed anyway.