Need 357/44 B&D info

[gwpercle]

I wonder if case stretch can be helped by setting a particular headspace, or if it is simply the nature of the beast and there is no combating it?

This will be an interesting technical exercise, that’s for sure!

Nature of the beast.
The round head spaces on the rim not the shoulder.
Upon firing the rim runs into the recoil shield , is held in place and the front of the case expands to fill the shoulder.
There must be enough "spring back" in the brass to allow the cylinder to turn and cases to extract.
Lower pressure loads are best at combating case stretching ,
case set back and cylinder rotation problem .
Bottle necked revolver rounds have always been "problematic" but if you like experimenting it's a very interesting cartridge .

A buddy had one...ages ago and we had good results with Gas Checked cast lead bullets and bullets with a zinc washer swaged on the base , Harvey Pro-tex Bore bullets . Lower pressures gave better case life and helped with case set back .
Gary

 

[Pantera Mike]

I just found this thread, and want to encourage you to continue posting your trials and tribulations with this somewhat unusual cartridge.

My thoughts on the splitting nickel cases - I would continue shooting them until gone.

I shall follow your advice. And have fun doing it!

Today I went to the range and burned through another hundred rounds. As expected I experienced fantastic accuracy, lots of flash and noise, and tremendous satisfaction, while having to tap many of the split cases out of the cylinder with a pencil and small wood mallet.

I did have a new experience today. I had about 8-9 rounds that failed to fire completely, and another 2-3 hang-fires, where the round fired a half-second or so after the primer was struck. All were from one particular box. The second box was loaded to the same specs with the same components a week after the first, and functioned flawlessly, as have all the previous rounds I’ve fired.

Given that my process is to tumble, then form (or resize, in the situation of previously formed then fired cases) and then run the cases through the dishwasher to remove the case lube, then dry in the sun before loading, could it be that I was a bit impatient and loaded a box with cases that had not fully dried, and some primers got soaked and failed to fire? Or could some tumbling media have gone unnoticed in the bottom of the previously fired cases, and blocked the path from the primer to the powder? Your guess is as good as mine (and for many of you, probably substantially better) but rest assured I will take great care to ensure that all cases are completely free of all moisture and potential obstructions before loading any more rounds.

The cases suffered varying degrees of trauma during firing today, as in previous days, and all were unceremoniously dumped in the recycling bin after firing. I have 300 new brass (not nickel) cases ready to load, with 200 more enroute which will be formed right away, for a total of 500. I will probably start off loading just a box of 50 to make sure my load of 22.0 gr of WW-296 will allow for reliable functioning with no problems of sticky case extraction, setback etc.

Oh, I did notice one odd thing. I found that a couple of bullets had their jackets shaved and bits of jacket were deposited on the bench as the bullet made its way from the gun to the target. (See photo). What would account for this?

 

[Rick WW.]

Just found this thread on the old B&D. Still have lots of reading to do.

I have always had interest in the B&D just because a piece of history. So when a PTG reamer become available on their sale rack for 40 bucks, I just bought it. Then bought a preowned 27 cylinder off ebay.

I tried the fit of the new cylinder in several 27's, the one that was like it was made for it was a nickled 27 8 3/8. A pinto does not bother me, so the project began.

I am under the impression that the B&D was made in two versions, sharp shoulder and gradual shoulder. My reamer is the latter.

Made a fixture for the ebay 27 cylinder and reamed to B&D, chamber and extractor at the same time, worked ok.

With some history with an El Monte 357 AMP 10" barrel, I am fond of 4227 powder in these things, not so hard on the guns, but still respectable in power.

I had RCBS standard set of dies, so just used some fired 44 Mag brass in the sizer, one pass. Did not have anything other than 158 jacketed bullets, so they were used.

My first trip to the range was ok, but suffered some split cases. Put that down to used cases necked down to 357 in one pass. So next time, I upped the powder some and formed brass with new Starline.

Still had some split cases. Hard to figure with the pretty good tenure with the 357 AMP in one pass and never annealed. So broke down with a few more new 44 mag cases, formed them, and then annealed the shoulder area lightly. No more split cases; still have not figured that out, but gift horse kind of thing.

I probably am no where near max, probably half way up or a bit more in 4227. Got on 4227 with my automags, seemed to be a good match for me and the gun. I have not experienced any set back, but do keep things clean, learned that from the Jet.

I suspect that the B&D in the early days was made for metal target game, later the Max kinda replaced it. Probably is at its best with 180's, but the faster bullets are fun too...........a bit harder on the forcing cone though.

I am eyeing a 3 1/2 nickled 27 for update to the B&D, as a carry gun; but dreams here are great in number and the time is getting short.

Don't give up on the B&D, it will come around; just gotta stay with it.

 

[Pantera Mike]

With the help of many others, I have collected a bunch of different B&D load data and have it posted on this other thread in the reloading forum:

357/44 Bain & Davis load data wanted?

 

[Pantera Mike]

Today a set of RCBS dies appeared on eBay:

RCBS Bain & Davis 3 Die set for .357X44- P/N 56426- See Pics! VHTF | eBay

These were discontinued several years ago and are incredibly hard to find now.

I am just the messenger....

 

[Pantera Mike]

There is a set of Redding dies on EBay now:

Redding #80497, 357 X 44 Bain & Davis (357/44 B&D) 3-Die Set W/Extra Seat Plug | eBay

Again, I’m just the messenger.

Interesting story—I sold these actual dies a few weeks ago, and the buyer was in Brazil. eBay has a global shipping program whereby items are sent to a clearinghouse in Kansas, then EBay handles the international portion of the shipping. They seized the package and would not allow it to go forward, but also would not send back to me!

I was allowed to keep the payment, and EBay refunded the purchase price to the buyer so we were both whole. I was afraid the dies would wind up in the landfill but now EBay has relisted them themselves (using my photos and description). Eventually somebody will buy them and eBay will ship them to the new buyer.

Strange....

 

[drgbike]

check out reed1911 on gb he has loaded ammo, good place to start

 

[Abbynormal]

!

You Sir, speak blasphemy! This is the S&W Forum, not the rUGER forum. Take your blasphemy and go elsewhere you non-believer! Only true and righteous S&W fans may post here!

The Smith 27/28 is not the best revolver for this round. You will not get higher velocities than with 357mag loaded to the old pressure standard in the N-frame due to B&D setback.






A Ruger Blackhawk 357/9mm with the 9mm cylinder rechambered to 357/44B&D works much better.

The 357/44B&D died when the 357max was chambered in the Contender and RBH. 357max in Ruger Blackhawk and Dan Wesson is also much better than the 357/44B&D.

I started out in metallic silhouette with a 27-2 83/8" in 357/44B&D under local rules (not a production revolver) in the 70'ies. It did not work well and was soon replaced, at the time, with a 41mag 57 83/8".

 

[Pantera Mike]

Just the messenger once more. Another RCBS die set is on eBay now with what I consider to be a ridiculously low asking price, and a ‘make offer’ option meaning he will sell for even less:

357/44 Bain & Davis B&D RCBS custom die set 357x44 magnum | eBay

FWIW I am still having a blast (literally) with my converted Model 27. One of the best decisions I ever made was to go down this path. So fun!

 

[Pantera Mike]

Resurrecting my old thread here. I haven’t had occasion to shoot my Model 27 in 357-44 B&D for many months now, but I finally dusted it off and put a box through it. My new R-P brass worked flawlessly, no split cases, and even though I’m not an excellent shot anymore, I had phenomenal accuracy using 22.0gr WW296 behind a Remington 158gr JHP. (Attached pic shows a 3-inch target at 15 yards).

This thing is just fun to shoot. More flash and drama and less recoil than my .44 Magnum, it’s a real crowd-pleaser.

I want to go shoot at some water jugs next!

I have a question for you to ponder. I have been warned that this cartridge might cause flame-cutting of the frame and barrel throat erosion. Why would it be any more or less prone to those problems than a conventional 357, 41 or 44 magnum?

 

[Protocall_Design]

Ball powders like ww296 and H110 (same powder) act like a sandblaster on the forcing cone. H4227 or something else might be better for the gun.

 

[Pantera Mike]

I have a bunch of Alliant 2400. Maybe I’ll give that a try. I have about 600 loaded rounds with 296 to go through first which might last me a year or two....

 

[S.B.]

Apparently Bain & Davis used to issue their own load data, four pages worth. As they went out of business, it’s no longer available. Does anybody here have it?

Possibly the book "Cartridges of the World"?
Steve

 

[Pantera Mike]

Possibly the book "Cartridges of the World"?
Steve

I actually started a separate thread to accumulate load data when I first started out, and thanks to tremendous support from many of you, there is a comprehensive collection of data available here now:

357/44 Bain & Davis load data wanted?

 

[gemihur]

Shooter's Reference Load Data for .357 / 44 Bain & Davis

www.shootersreference.com

my advice is to stay light as to keep the cylinder free



great cartridge. Enjoy