Congratulations!!! A couple drops of light oil on the hammer and trigger studs, along with a few hours soak, might help getting those two parts out.
Mike Priwer
Mike Priwer
Need Help with Model Identification!
- Thread starter DeltaCompany
- Start date
Earlier I guessed five digits. Wow. It likely shipped in January '52.
Your Chiefs Special has just taken the position as the first known model with a smooth ramp front sight. Yours is nearly 500 numbers lower than the previous record holder.
Thanks for sharing yours and your progress on it with us. Keep it up!
Benton Quest
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2010
- Messages
- 390
- Reaction score
- 661
J-frame grips are not going to fit...unless you file or sand off the bottom 1/8th of an inch or so.
Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk
tom turner
US Veteran
Welcome to the forum DeltaCompany! I'm enjoying your progress on your "Baby Chief" rediscovery. A lot of great folks here who will be glad to help. Best wishes!
OP
DeltaCompany
Member
J frame grips won't fit??? Any chance I can find grips that will fit without sanding?
Originals for your little Chief can certainly be found but prepare to pay the price...
...Ben- Joined
- Oct 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,083
- Reaction score
- 1,609
A bit of context: the original Chiefs Special was built on a modified I frame, which was the predecessor to the J frame. The grips—while similar—are not the same.
That's why an original set of diamond service stocks for your gun tend to cost a lot more than the later J frame diamonds. Yours are earlier and scarcer.
That's why I suggested keeping the original stocks. Regardless of their condition, they're scarce wood.
Mike
That's why an original set of diamond service stocks for your gun tend to cost a lot more than the later J frame diamonds. Yours are earlier and scarcer.
That's why I suggested keeping the original stocks. Regardless of their condition, they're scarce wood.
Mike
Well, that's a bit of a fallacy.
Your Chiefs Special is a J-frame. It takes the stocks made for a 5-screw J-frame. The 4-screw J-frame stocks are ⅛" longer. (See the photo.)
Attachments
Yes. Round butt J frame grips that totally enclose the grip frame (target or combat) will fit. J frame grips made as panels that expose the grip frame can be mounted. But the panels will extend beyond the bottom of the grip frame by 1/8" and look funny. I frame grips will fit.
This is the GREATEST thread of any I remember reading
This is the GREATEST thread of any I remember reading.
OP provided PHOTOS and DETAILS.
Forum members provided GOOD ADVICE and MORAL SUPPORT.
This is an example of why/how this is a GREAT FORUM.
If you agree with me, consider an upgrade to you membership.
Bekeart
This is the GREATEST thread of any I remember reading.
OP provided PHOTOS and DETAILS.
Forum members provided GOOD ADVICE and MORAL SUPPORT.
This is an example of why/how this is a GREAT FORUM.
If you agree with me, consider an upgrade to you membership.
Bekeart
Actually, and it's less than earth shaking in importance---may even have been "a slip of the tongue", but the numbers on the yoke match numbers on the frame---and are there to aid in keeping those two pieces together (before the serial number was applied). The cylinder came along later in the process.
Ralph Tremaine
DWalt
Member
Indeed they will. The only difference is that the grip frame is slightly shorter and J-frame conventional grips will slightly overlap the grip frame base. If that is bothersome, the J-frame grip bottoms can be shortened and re-shaped. Another solution is to use combat-type grips that completely enclose the grip frame. I have done that and it works well. There is a wide variety of J-frame combat style grips available in every price range and they will provide a much more comfortable and substantial grasp than conventional factory grips. That would be my primary recommendation. A third possible option is to get a pair of the black hard rubber replica plastic grips used on the old .38 top break S&W revolvers. I believe they should work OK on your BC, but I have not tried that.
Last edited:
handejector
Staff member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 26,134
- Reaction score
- 47,056
The Chiefs were NEVER built on an I frame, modified or otherwise. That myth persists, but we try to keep it stamped out.
They were built on the J frame. Period.
Roy, Page 224-----
Attachments
Jim Watson
Member
I have seen a lot of messed up guns that can be made presentable.
But that rust inside just turns my stomach. Good luck.
But that rust inside just turns my stomach. Good luck.
I've seen worse. I once worked on a former Birmingham AL PD M10 that when I popped off the side plate, there was enough dirt inside to pot a 'mater plant!
The best was I've found to clean parts like are in the OP's Chief is to use a very fine wire wheel. The only trick is that small parts can be hard to hold onto.
OP
DeltaCompany
Member
Doubtful it's the best set, but I've done ok with the Chapman sets that come in a yellow plastic box. It's a handle with various bits.
DWalt
Member
I have a set of hex driver bits of many types and sizes that I bought at Sears back when there was a Sears. They seem to work fine for gun screws even though they are not marked as being gunsmith bits. I imagine just about everyone already has at least one bit handle. I have probably five or six of them. My favorite is a ratcheted T-handle.
Last edited:
Jim Watson
Member
Brownells is the gold standard but prices are way up since I bought mine.
The Midway-Wheeler outfit looks good.
Wheeler 43-Piece Professional Gunsmithing Screwdriver Set
Note that these are just 1/4" hex drive, you can get more hollow ground bits from Brownells and Midway or specialty shapes from the hardware store or online. I added Torx tips from Amazon.
The Midway-Wheeler outfit looks good.
Wheeler 43-Piece Professional Gunsmithing Screwdriver Set
Note that these are just 1/4" hex drive, you can get more hollow ground bits from Brownells and Midway or specialty shapes from the hardware store or online. I added Torx tips from Amazon.
I have that one in my gunshow box...I like it...
...Ben
DWalt
Member
If I still had access to bluing tanks and a bead blast cabinet, I would bead blast the whole thing and hot blue it.
Last edited:
As for the grips, here is the info simply put: yes it is true that the first Chief's special was a J frame, but it is also true that the first J frames, which are 5 screw, used the standard I frame round butt grip frame profile. The important consideration here is what makes an I frame an I frame and a J frame a J frame? It is the cylinder window. The original I frame was intended to be 6 shot 32 S&W long cal, and the cylinder window was found to be too short for the 38 special, hence the J frame development. How about some interesting S&W grip trivia? The much earlier 38 S&W top breaks had nearly the same grip dimension as your gun and the round butt I frames and occasionally you will see the black hard rubber grips on later hand ejector guns, which fit well, and at times vice versa too. The late production "lemon squeezer" top breaks actually were originally sold with wood grips, but those are somewhat scarce today. The later 4 screw J frame has a longer grip frame, as others have said and as that great photo comparison shows.
Although your gun is a J frame, because of this somewhat complicated grip and grip frame history, you would want to search for I frame grips or you could perhaps find a S&W guy who has grips and knows the history, and instead say "first model J frame grips"
To add more confusion, most gun dealers or most anyone selling a pair of grips will routinely sell a pair of I frame grips and claim they are J frame because the differences are somewhat subtle unless you have them side by side.
I may have a good set I could spare actually...
Although your gun is a J frame, because of this somewhat complicated grip and grip frame history, you would want to search for I frame grips or you could perhaps find a S&W guy who has grips and knows the history, and instead say "first model J frame grips"
To add more confusion, most gun dealers or most anyone selling a pair of grips will routinely sell a pair of I frame grips and claim they are J frame because the differences are somewhat subtle unless you have them side by side. I may have a good set I could spare actually...
Last edited:
DWalt
Member
I had earlier mentioned for exactly the same reason that a good quality pair of replica grips made for S&W .38 top break revolvers might be a satisfactory fit for use on a BC. The internet is full of such replica grips of several designs at relatively modest prices. I have not tried doing that as I do not have a BC but maybe someone here has, and could provide helpful input. But I do know that combat style full coverage J-frame grips fit fine on old S&W .38 DA top break revolvers. And such grips make them far more comfortable to shoot. They just look strange.As for the grips, here is the info simply put: yes it is true that the first Chief's special was a J frame, but it is also true that the first J frames, which are 5 screw, used the standard I frame round butt grip frame profile. The important consideration here is what makes an I frame an I frame and a J frame a J frame? It is the cylinder window. The original I frame was intended to be 6 shot 32 S&W long cal, and the cylinder window was found to be too short for the 38 special, hence the J frame development. How about some interesting S&W grip trivia? The much earlier 38 S&W top breaks had nearly the same grip dimension as your gun and the round butt I frames and occasionally you will see the black hard rubber grips on later hand ejector guns, which fit well, and at times vice versa too. The late production "lemon squeezer" top breaks actually were originally sold with wood grips, but those are somewhat scarce today. The later 4 screw J frame has a longer grip frame, as others have said and as that great photo comparison shows.
Although your gun is a J frame, because of this somewhat complicated grip and grip frame history, you would want to search for I frame grips or you could perhaps find a S&W guy who has grips and knows the history, and instead say "first model J frame grips"
I may have a good set I could spare actually...
Last edited:
To end the grip size confusion:
You want pre model of 1953 I or J frame grips, they are the same!!
After 1953 both the I and J are once again the SAME BUT 1/8" longer than your grip frame.
The vintage and version of your .38 Chiefs Special is referred to as the Baby J frame.
You want pre model of 1953 I or J frame grips, they are the same!!
After 1953 both the I and J are once again the SAME BUT 1/8" longer than your grip frame.
The vintage and version of your .38 Chiefs Special is referred to as the Baby J frame.
Last edited:
Oh what a feeling when that last screw breaks loose! Then another set of emotions arise when I get my first peek at the "clockwork." Well done DC.
I have 2 questions for the more experienced members.
1. Is there a spring behind the hammer nose?
2. How well does an ultrasonic cleaner work on small parts in this condition?
Waiting patiently for an update
Attachments
Again just to reiterate what Lee posted, the Chief Special was NEVER built on the I frame. The larger .38 special cartridge required a larger cylinder window and therefore the J frame was born. Yes there was no need to enlarge the grip frame size and the trigger guard to accommodate this new cartridge so they were left the same size as the predecessor I frame but they were NEVER built on the I frame. Collectors have separated these two J frame models by referring to the first guns produced as the "Baby Chief".
Ideally for all concerned, it would have been easier if like the I frame predecessor, S&W had called it the J frame and then when enlarged, the Improved J frame. Due to the more powerful .38 Special cartridge, the smaller size grip and trigger guard proved problematic and they were increased in size.
Lastly, as noted in the photo Dwalt posted, they are called stocks by S&W and not grips. The founders, IMHO, went to great lengths to differentiate themselves from their small competitor down the street in CT. While the other little gun company used the terms checkering, crane and grips, Daniel and Horace chose to use checking, yoke and stocks. These are small differences but for folks like me with OCD, very important.
I will also restate my appeal to keep the original stocks with the gun. Even after paint removal and rust removal, this piece will never be in 100% condition. As a carpenter and purist collector, I would much rather see the original, albeit repaired, stocks remain with the gun. There are folks on this sight that have repaired stocks with huge chunks missing and if you did not know where the repair was done, you would be hard pressed to find it.
With as much effort as you are putting into the metal, I think it only fair to give the only original stocks a chance.
Again, these are my personal feelings and as it is your firearm and this is a free country (so far), the choices are yours and yours alone.
Please keep sending the photos of your progress as it is fascinating to watch.
Last edited:
Some have a spring, your model does not if I recall correctly.
An ultrasound cleaner works perfectly, not only for small parts but the entire gun disassembled.
An ultrasound cleaner works perfectly, not only for small parts but the entire gun disassembled.
Haven't heard from you for a while. How's it coming?
Also, is the serial number stamped on the bottom of the barrel?
I've been hoping to see an update too, and I didn't think I was the only one.
I hope the Delta Company is still in business.
