Need to repair damaged rear sight on S&W Model 17-5

[mikemyers]

It sure looks to me like the head of the screw is at an angle compared to the threaded part of the screw. That may have been contributing to the blade moving around. Hopefully the replacement screw is straight.

I'm very glad I did NOT work on this on my workbench. I did it on my bed, with a nice large clean surface so the parts wouldn't get lost. Makes me think I should order a replacement screw and plunger, just to have them for the future, just in case......

 

[BC38]

At this time I only have one adj sight S&W.. When I rotate the windage screw, the movement of the gun does not allow me to see that small movement. But run the slide to where I can pinch and move it up and down. It does.. Put it in a vise and video the operation, I'll BET.. it moves.

Maybe. And just maybe the OP's is bent since he can obviously see the movement without the use of a vice to steady it or a video camera to capture it.

FWIW, I have a BUNCH of adjustable sight S&W's and I have never experienced what the OP describes in his first post when adjusting the sights.
YMMV.

Just curious bigggbruce, but can you explain your theory of exactly what is happening (mechanically) to cause the sight blade to jump up and down and side to side when you turn the screw? These are pretty precision made and fitted parts after all.

 

[mikemyers]

I enlarged the image, to show just the screw. Bent!

 

[BC38]

I enlarged the image, to show just the screw. Bent!

Well, there ya' go.
Guess the kink couldn't be much farther from the center of the shaft than right at the head, huh?

 

[mikemyers]

Question - at one minute, 40 seconds into the video, the head of the screw is sticking out towards the right of the gun, so the person can drop the spring and plunger into the head. The next scene he is tightening the nut. What happens in-between?

When the spring and plunger are inserted, do you push them "into" the sight, probably depressing the plunger so the head will go in, and then, holding it there, start to screw on the nut? That part isn't shown in the video.....

 

[BC38]

Question - at one minute, 40 seconds into the video, the head of the screw is sticking out towards the right of the gun, so the person can drop the spring and plunger into the head. The next scene he is tightening the nut. What happens in-between?

When the spring and plunger are inserted, do you push them "into" the sight, probably depressing the plunger so the head will go in, and then, holding it there, start to screw on the nut? That part isn't shown in the video.....

Yeo, insert the screw until just the screw head is still sticking out, install the spring & plunger, depress the plunger and finish seating the screw until the head is flush with the sight body.
Insert the blade from the other end and rotate the screw with a screwdriver to "pull" the blade into the body of the sight. Then thread the nut on the same way (by turning the screw) and then dimple the end of the screw where it sticks through the nut to mushroom it slightly so the screw can't back out of the nut when you're turning it counter-clockwise making drift adjustments.

 

[mikemyers]

......insert the screw until just the screw head is still sticking out, install the spring & plunger, depress the plunger and finish seating the screw until the head is flush with the sight body........

I think you're saying to push in the screw from the right side, almost all the way, but leaving the hole exposed, drop the spring and then the plunger into the hole, and while holding the plunger down with something, to push the screw head all the way in.

If that's right, the rest is easy - slide in the blade from the left, and start screwing in at the right which will pull the blade in, maybe until it's half way or so. The screw on the nut on the left side, using the special tool, screw it on all the way, then back it out 1/4 turn, if I remember correctly, then "stake" the nut in place using a punch.

I think I'll wait until I see everything is working smoothly before I stake the nut in place.

There is a "hex" shape to the opening at the right - I assume the plunger should go into the fixture when the plunger is pointing at one of the corners of the hex, which would be easier than pushing it in against one of the "flats".

The video doesn't show what you described - thank you!!

 

[BC38]

I think you're saying to push in the screw from the right side, almost all the way, but leaving the hole exposed, drop the spring and then the plunger into the hole, and while holding the plunger down with something, to push the screw head all the way in.

If that's right, the rest is easy - slide in the blade from the left, and start screwing in at the right which will pull the blade in, maybe until it's half way or so. The screw on the nut on the left side, using the special tool, screw it on all the way, then back it out 1/4 turn, if I remember correctly, then "stake" the nut in place using a punch.

I think I'll wait until I see everything is working smoothly before I stake the nut in place.

There is a "hex" shape to the opening at the right - I assume the plunger should go into the fixture when the plunger is pointing at one of the corners of the hex, which would be easier than pushing it in against one of the "flats".

The video doesn't show what you described - thank you!!

Yup, you got it exactly.

The six "points" of the hexagonal recess for the screw head serve as detents for the plunger. You can feel the screw "click" as you turn it from one to the next. Kind of an elegant design actually.

 

[mikemyers]

When everything is done, and the gun is shooting properly, I'd still like to get new parts to replace anything that looks worn or beat up, including some of the screws that got butchered. That's off in the future though - my main goal is to get it working properly.

By the way, since it's rim-fire, is it best to avoid dry-firing the model 17?

 

[BC38]

By the way, since it's rim-fire, is it best to avoid dry-firing the model 17?

Yes, it is best to use snap-caps of some kind for all rimfires.
Many people report great success using #3 plastic drywall anchors (the yellow ones) as 22lr snap caps.
They're really cheap, very durable, and work quite well from what I've read.

 

[mikemyers]

Yup, you got it exactly.

The six "points" of the hexagonal recess for the screw head serve as detents for the plunger. You can feel the screw "click" as you turn it from one to the next. Kind of an elegant design actually.

All the parts are here, and I spent a couple of hours trying to get it back together.

Problem #1 is that the sight blade with adjusting screw in it doesn't smoothly slide in from the right to wherever I want it. It binds. The only way, even after adding some penetrating oil, to move it all the way to the left is by tapping on it. I got it to work better, but it was never free.

Problem #2 is how to move the sight+screw+spring+plunger into the sight housing. It won't slide in, because of friction. I can't tap it in, because then I'll lose the spring and plunger. The instructions from Brownell seem to imply I should move the sight blade to the right, turn the screw until the hole is before the sight blade, insert spring and plunger, depress plunger, and turn the screw until the plunger is under the blade, at which time the blade perhaps could be hand pushed to the left, except that mine is very tight, and won't move in unless I tap it. There goes the spring and plunger.

My hunch is that I need to free up the sight blade housing somehow, so the blade smoothly moves back and forth, but I have no idea how to do this, and don't want to risk damaging it.

Current plans are to bring it to a gunsmith on Monday, who will have the experience I don't, and will know what to do.

(Running the proper size drill through the sight blade housing would probably free it up, as would a reamer if I could get the right size...)

What is the trick to pressing the plunger down into the screw?

 

[BC38]

Hmmmn, that is interesting.

IIRC I inserted the screw until the head just started into the recess of the sight body, but with the detent hole still visible, then I put the spring and detent into the hole, depressed it, and slid it the rest of the way in until the screw head was flush with the hexagonal recess in the sight body. Then I inserted the sight blade from the other side and started rotating the screw - being careful that it didn't back out of the sight body. I just kept turning the screw and let it "pull" the sight blade into it's slot.
At least that's how I remember it - I've only had to do it once and its been a couple of years. Hope that helps.

 

[mikemyers]

Do you remember what you used to depress the plunger and spring, which allowed you to push the screw in as you did? That sounds brilliant! Maybe I will use the original blade, which seems to fit into the sight housing better than the new one, which is very tight.

 

[mikemyers]

The parts didn't fit as I expected, and rather than risk damaging anything, I asked my gunsmith to do it. Took him 10 minutes. He said he had the right tools' and had the experience to know what to do.

Done.

 

[mikemyers]

Update....

I hope I didn't get everyone upset at me for giving up and taking everything to my gunsmith. Since then, I've had to re-do things several times, and the advice you all gave me was invaluable.

I need to do it again this week, to replace the sight blade, and instead of being an exercise in frustration, I'm now confident that I can do it. Maybe it will eventually even be easy.

I've mostly gotten this gun to work reasonably well, but I'm convinced it really needs a whole new rear sight assembly. I've also decided to buy what I originally wanted, a Model 17-3 with the Target Hammer and Trigger, and the original box.

 

[USBP SW]

I don't know if anyone has inquired previously but I am wondering why the rear sight blade is adjusted so far to the side? I hope that you have verified that the barrel/front sight is properly indexed. I have seen a number of Smith and Wesson revolvers that have the barrels installed improperly, leaving the front sight canted to one side or the other.

 

[mikemyers]

I sent photos to S&W, thinking my barrel was off, but if it is, it's not that far off. This is a gun currently at gunbroker:
Attention Required! | Cloudflare

Look at photo #14 - same as mine. :-(

 

[CALREB]

Mike , I fixed S/Ws for 20 years and changed a lot of rear sight blades/slides whatever you want to call them to accommodate for taller front sights and changes in sights on target revolvers. The rear sight assembly is pretty tricky, depending on the model, when they were made , if they are bent, the sight body, not the blade you have to straighten that out. Then it has to be staked properly with the right tools. Generally you are taught to always start with a new adjustment screw etc. Anyway trying to talk someone through it on the computer is just not going to work. Believe me it can be frustrating to someone that has been trained and does it regularly. If you want to study how SW revolvers work buy the Kuhnhausen Revolver manual from Brownells. I can understand wanting to fix it yourself, But you are starting on a hard project to begin. The 17-5 is a nice gun if you are still having problems with the rear sight on your gun PM me your address and I will be glad to send you a rear sight assembly for your gun. You will need a set of mini-screwdrivers, I like the Husky brand you can get at Loews or any other that has the blades in the handle and spins. Will send new mounting screw for the sight tang also.
Put the frame or your revolver in a vise, so its setting level and wont move,padded jaws best. Slide the elevation stud into the slot/keyway until its all the way forward , and the hole in the tang lines up with the hole in the frame. The tang will be curved up from the frame( thats normal) push it down with your thumb or finger, and start the screw into the tang with your fingers , once its secured by several threads you can let the tang up and finish with the screwdriver. I try to get the screw down as far as I can before I let the tang up. Then just adjust the sight as you need to. Let me know, Glad to help..

 

[Narragansett]

When everything is done, and the gun is shooting properly, I'd still like to get new parts to replace anything that looks worn or beat up, including some of the screws that got butchered. That's off in the future though - my main goal is to get it working properly.

By the way, since it's rim-fire, is it best to avoid dry-firing the model 17?

Search EBAY. There is a guy " Gun Garage " or something like that, that has all kinds of screws and screw sets.

 

[mikemyers]

.......The 17-5 is a nice gun if you are still having problems with the rear sight on your gun PM me........

Thanks - I will PM you this afternoon. I re-installed the rear sight yesterday with a taller sight blade, and while I don't understand why, the view from the rear looks better - maybe because the sight leaf is now lower in the frame. I'm taking the gun to the range today and will sight it in again, and shoot it at some targets. I am ***SOOO*** tempted to dump the sub-6-o'clock aiming, and shoot it like all my other guns, center-hold. But that's a different discussion. Thank you for the idea of getting the Kuhnhausen book - I bought that last year, but never thought to look at the pages about the rear sight. Good reading, and a good, clear image. I also bought another gun, Model 17-3 in new condition, with original box, and I will be receiving that in the next day or two. But I'm very, very stubborn, and won't give up on this gun until I either fix it, or learn it's not fixable.

One of the tech support people at S&W told me to remove the sight, and bend the "leaf" until it was flatter. I did that, or thought I did. Now I'm concerned that maybe in bending it, I put a "twist" in it as well, which is why my sight blade was tilted towards the left, and had to be moved to the right.

Thank you for your offer - I will be writing you once I get home, either to take you up on your offer, or to tell you the gun is now OK. I highly suspect someone dropped it on the sight, and that's why the previous owner sold it to me. When I explained the damage, he sent me some $$, and I bought lots of new parts, but nobody had a leaf that I could buy, new or used.

Despite being a 17-5, it's a very clean and pretty gun. I very much enjoy shooting it. It's very frustrating though.... Another person at S&W wants me to send it to them, but I'm not confident that they have technicians nowadays that understand the old guns.

Thank you! I'll be back here later today with an update.