New FBI 9mm pistol

[shawn mccarver]

As noted in other threads, I described the FBI's selection of new 9mm ammo, contract announced during the 4th Quarter of 2013.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/351485-fbis-new-9mm-ammo.html

The Pre-solicitation notice for the new pistols has now been issued.

Let the games (and speculation as to the winner) begin.

SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOLS
Solicitation Number: SYNOPSIS-OSCU-DSU1501
Agency: Department of Justice
Office: Federal Bureau of Investigation
Location: Procurement Section

Solicitation Number:
SYNOPSIS-OSCU-DSU1501
Notice Type:
Presolicitation
Synopsis:
Added: Jul 25, 2014 11:39 am

This is a PRE-SOLICITATION NOTICE of a proposed requirement for various commercial "OFF THE SHELF" semi-automatic pistols chambered to fire a 9mm Luger cartridge as defined by SAAMI. This notice is issued solely for informational and planning purposes only.

The following types of pistols, chambered to fire a 9mm Luger cartridge, may be requested for testing and evaluation purposes under a future solicitation:


Class One Pistol: barrel length between 3.75" and 4.25"; with a minimum magazine capacity of 13 rounds.


Class Two Pistol: barrel length between 4.5" and 5.5"; with a minimum magazine capacity of 15 rounds.


Class One Training Pistol (Red Handle): deactivated with full articulation, red receiver and slide, night sights.


Class One "Man Marking" (a.k.a., "Simunitions") pistol: blue slide or slide with blue inserts.


The Federal Bureau of Investigation anticipates the release of a solicitation during FY2015/Q1; distributed solely through the General Services Administration (GSA) Federal Business Opportunities (FBO) Website (www.fedbizopps.gov). This notice does not constitute a Request for Proposal (RFP) and should not be construed to as a commitment of any kind by the Government to issue a formal solicitation or ultimately award a contract. Responses to this notice are not offers and cannot be accepted by the Government to form a binding contract. Any costs incurred by interested parties will NOT be reimbursed. It is the responsibility of any interested party to monitor this site for additional information pertaining to this notice.


Agency is contemplating single award of a firm fixed price (FFP) Indefinite-Delivery Indefinite-Quantity (IDIQ) contract to the contractor whose submission represents best value to the Government. The anticipated maximum, not to exceed, contract threshold is $100M for a twelve month base period and nine (9) possible additional one-year options. In accordance with FAR 2.101, Multi-Agency Contracts, the solicitation will include a provision authorizing other law enforcement agencies to utilize the contract vehicle. The North American Industry Classification System code is 332994 (Small Arms, Ordnance, and Ordnance Accessories Manufacturing) with a small business size standard of 1,000 employees. Interested parties shall be registered in the System for Award Management at (www.sam.gov).







Contracting Office Address:
935 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, District of Columbia 20535
United States
Primary Point of Contact.:
Jennifer R. Unger,
Contracting Officer
[email protected]
Phone: 540-868-4811
Fax: 540-868-1473

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...c0f178480b6ce1c3922566274ea&tab=core&_cview=0

PS - Good luck to M&P!

 

[Llando88]

Potential future RFP for $100M!? Holy cow.

Did I read that right?!

 

[Lycan]

Potential future RFP for $100M!? Holy cow.

Did I read that right?!

Actually, it was a maximum of $100 million for 12 months with a possibility to extend an additional 9 times. So, what I read was a potential for a 1 billion dollar contract over 10 years. Of course, what was written only covered the maximum cap of $100 million for 12 months, it didn't guarantee that much. It also didn't state what the maximum was for the possible next 9 years if all nine years were extended. So, I guess it has the potential of being a 1 billion dollar or more contract over 10 years in a fully exercised situation.

 

[VictorLouis]

Glock has that all covered, in spades. Wonder if Smith has M&Ps set up for training and Sims, or will they try?

 

[dullh]

Glock has that all covered, in spades. Wonder if Smith has M&Ps set up for training and Sims, or will they try?

I doubt it.

 

[kbm6893]

A friend of mine is a retired FBI agent. He missed his SIG 228 dearly and it was ripped from his hands in when he was forced to go to the glock. Glock does nothing better than s&w, sig, beretta, or ruger. I say get rid of the glock and go for something else. My friend told me about two negligent discharges he personally witnessed with the glock. Never one with the sig or model 13. I say hammer fired over the glock.

 

[Edmo]

A friend of mine is a retired FBI agent. He missed his SIG 228 dearly and it was ripped from his hands in when he was forced to go to the glock. Glock does nothing better than s&w, sig, beretta, or ruger. I say get rid of the glock and go for something else. My friend told me about two negligent discharges he personally witnessed with the glock. Never one with the sig or model 13. I say hammer fired over the glock.

Two comments...

GLOCK does nothing better, but obviously nothing worse either based on their pick for the last contract with the bureau (and a lot of LE departments).

Negligent discharges occur with all shapes and sizes of guns. Generally they can be traced to inadequate training, but likely inadequate gun handling by the individual.

Edmo

 

[Rastoff]

I say hammer fired over the glock.

Why?

I'm a "dyed in the wool" 1911 fan. But the only reason is because I shoot the gun so much better. My M&P 45 with the Apex Forward Set Sear upgrade is a very close second. So, it would be a tough choice for me, but for a duty gun, I might actually go with the M&P or similar striker fired gun.

For concealed carry, I'd still go with the 1911. However, those that carry for duty have a different mandate; they use their guns differently. It is more likely for a policeman or an FBI agent to end up in a grappling situation. If the bad guy gets his hands on the gun, and it has a hammer, the gun won't fire if the hammer is covered. A striker fired gun cannot be defeated this way. If the bad guy has his hands on an M&P, pull the trigger and the gun will go off. Chances are he'll let go as well.

So, what are the advantages of a hammer fired gun? I really want to know.

 

[hypnotoad]

My friend told me about two negligent discharges he personally witnessed with the glock. Never one with the sig or model 13. I say hammer fired over the glock.

They don't call it "Glock leg syndrome" for nothing.

 

[kbm6893]

Why?

I'm a "dyed in the wool" 1911 fan. But the only reason is because I shoot the gun so much better. My M&P 45 with the Apex Forward Set Sear upgrade is a very close second. So, it would be a tough choice for me, but for a duty gun, I might actually go with the M&P or similar striker fired gun.

For concealed carry, I'd still go with the 1911. However, those that carry for duty have a different mandate; they use their guns differently. It is more likely for a policeman or an FBI agent to end up in a grappling situation. If the bad guy gets his hands on the gun, and it has a hammer, the gun won't fire if the hammer is covered. A striker fired gun cannot be defeated this way. If the bad guy has his hands on an M&P, pull the trigger and the gun will go off. Chances are he'll let go as well.

So, what are the advantages of a hammer fired gun? I really want to know.

Cops and federal agents especially don't do a whole lot of grappling over their guns. I spent over 10 years on patrol in a ghetto and never fought over my gun

By what cops and federal agents DO more often is unholster and reholster their weapons. I did it 4-5 times a tour easily. And that is where a lot of the ND's come from. Placing your thumb on the hammer means an ND is impossible while holstering. The NYPD authorizes 3 guns, the Sig 226, the 5946, and the glock 19. I recall the range commands " sig and smith, thumb on hammer and holster". At the time of my retirement, not ONE ND with the sig or smith. Try rolling around with some drunk and trying to holster or doing it after running 3 blocks

I believe ANY striker fired gun is an awful choice for a duty gun

 

[Sgt 45]

Federally Befuddled Idiots may not be able to master two different trigger pulls ala Sig. On the other hand, they might be very good at Glock leg syndrome thereby requiring another contract to go from Glock (or M&P) to a Sig and not worry about the first round getting dumped somewhere other than the intended target and the second, third, fourth and fifth round going somewhere else because they were so confused by the really light trigger pull on those rounds.

 

[kbm6893]

Federally Befuddled Idiots may not be able to master two different trigger pulls ala Sig. On the other hand, they might be very good at Glock leg syndrome thereby requiring another contract to go from Glock (or M&P) to a Sig and not worry about the first round getting dumped somewhere other than the intended target and the second, third, fourth and fifth round going somewhere else because they were so confused by the really light trigger pull on those rounds.

Cops get into shootings very rarely. Federal agents even less. The Feds spend way more time on firearms training than soldiers do and if a soldier can be trusted with an M9 so can an FBI agent

It's funny how the FBI wanted a hotter round after the Miami shootout so they went to 10MM. Then to 40 and now back to 9MM. And if they'd stop hiring midgets and tiny woman they wouldn't have needed to go to a lighter gun with no safety to begin with

 

[Rastoff]

Cops and federal agents especially don't do a whole lot of grappling over their guns. I spent over 10 years on patrol in a ghetto and never fought over my gun.

I believe ANY striker fired gun is an awful choice for a duty gun

OK, I'll defer to your experience. I was just speculating on the fact that police and other government agents are more likely to have their gun out without shooting. This could lead to a higher possibility of someone grabbing their gun.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Because I have no life, based upon the information provided, I put together this list. While there are some surprises as to some models that do not meet specifications, minor changes could, I suppose, be made. Here is the list I put together. No offense if I left off your pet pistol. With a couple of exceptions, I included only pistols that meet the early specifications for the two classes of real pistols (not inert or Simunitions). Here it is:

FBI 9MM PISTOL PRE-SOLICITATION

*Pistols so marked do not technically meet the specifications

Class One Pistol
3.75 inch to 4.25 inch
Minimum magazine capacity 13 rounds

FNS
4.0 inch
17 rounds

Glock 19
4.01 inch
15 rounds

HK VP9
4.09 inch
15 rounds

HK P30
3.85 inch
15 rounds

HK P2000*
3.66 inch
13 rounds

Ruger SR9/9E
4.14 inch
17 rounds

SIG Sauer P229
3.9 inch
13 rounds/15 rounds with E2 magazine

SIG Sauer P250C/P320C
3.9 inch
15 rounds

SIG Sauer 2022
3.9 inch
15 rounds

Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Full Size
4.25 inch
17 rounds

Walther PPQ M2
4.0 inch
15 rounds

Class Two Pistol
4.5 inch to 5.5 inch
Minimum magazine capacity 15 rounds

FNS Long Slide
5.0 inch
17 rounds

Glock 17*
4.48 inch
17 rounds

Glock 34
5.31 inch
17 rounds

HK P30L*
4.45 inch
15 rounds

SIG Sauer P226*
4.4 inch
15 rounds

SIG Sauer P250F/P320F
4.7 inch
17 rounds

Smith & Wesson M&P 9L C.O.R.E./9L Pro-Series
5.0 inch
17 rounds

Walther PPQ M2 Long Slide
5.0 inch
15 rounds

 

[shawn mccarver]

Potential future RFP for $100M!? Holy cow.

Did I read that right?!

They always make those sky high as the contract will allow other agencies to buy off the FBI contract, so they want to make sure the winner is contractually bound to supply as many pistols as the needs of the FBI and potentially everyone else require. It is exceedingly doubtful that the FBI or any other agencies will account for that much buying.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Glock has that all covered, in spades. Wonder if Smith has M&Ps set up for training and Sims, or will they try?

Actually, I was surprised to see that the Glock 17 does not qualify. The Glock 19 and the Glock 34 do qualify.

S&W has entries for both spots as do others.

Although the Pre-Solicitation refers to a "commercial off the shelf" (COTS) item, it is doubtful that the pistol selected will be exactly like anything presently offered. Even the Glock 22/23 bought by the FBI had changes such as the magazine release, the slide release, and other little changes from what was normally sold commercially.

It will be fun to watch this unfold.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Glock has that all covered, in spades. Wonder if Smith has M&Ps set up for training and Sims, or will they try?

I don't think there is any doubt that S&W will try for this contract. I hope they do well. It would be nice to see an American company back in with the FBI.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Many have expressed confusion over why the FBI would return to the 9mm after the Miami shootout of 1986.

In no particular order, 9mm ammo is MUCH improved now, it is less expensive, has less recoil allowing faster follow-up shots, and it has higher capacity. In addition, it does not bend or break locking block pins on the Glocks as the 180 grain .40 S&W ammo does on an apparently fairly regular basis, and is simply easier on the pistols.

Finally, the Bureau apparently hires mostly people who have not fired guns these days, and the 9mm presents less training challenges for such people or for recruits of small stature or without sufficient hand, arm or upper body strength to manage a more challenging weapon.

I cannot think of anything that will get tempers flaring more than adoption or rejection of someone's pet pistol, so this should provide much lively debate over the months it takes this to unfold.

 

[kawalerzysta]

It lookst that the contract criteria were setup in the way for the glock to win. While criteria 1 and 2 could be met by other manufactures right now, I believe that only Glock meets criteria 3 and 4.

 

[Fastbolt]

Glock has that all covered, in spades. Wonder if Smith has M&Ps set up for training and Sims, or will they try?

A couple of us were wondering whether S&W, or a couple of the other gun companies who see other LE/Gov/Mil contracts, would even be interested in developing the required red & blue guns for what's essentially a relatively small gov contract. Glock's already got that in place, so it's easy for them.

Now, if DHS were to announce another round of testing and new weapons, and request similar dedicated training guns, it might make it more worthwhile.